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Begin the season as The Blackshirts?


admo

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Give it to the fullback!

 

Jason Peter should be our DC!!!!!

 

We weren't too far off from this are we??

 

What?

 

A ton of old school blue-haired responses in this thread that sound a tad Jason Peter-ish

 

If you have an opinion, why not just make a reasonable statement that adds to the discussion, like everyone else in this thread has done, as opposed to accusing everyone you disagree with of being old?

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So let's go with this scenario. Starter x doesn't perform well on gameday, and has his blackshirt taken away and given to backup y.

 

Starter x is told "you want it back? earn it" and so he does. He is a much better player than backup y (hence being a starter), so after owning backup y's lunch in practice on monday he gets his blackshirt back, having earned it over the player that shouldn't have ever been in front of him in the first place.

 

What does this accomplish? It's like firing a welder or a cook and hiring an inexperienced student in their place telling them to earn their job back - after 5 minutes, they have earned it back because they were more deserving of it in the first place. Seems like a pointless exercise.

 

I suppose if you look at it in the wrong light that it is pointless. Sure if the defense and most players, top to bottom, just plain aren't very good or don't have pride in earning or keeping their blackshirt then it is rather pointless either way. My problem with the current system is it merely provides a distraction and appears to be a negative or non motivator for the players. There is no benefit to the team if an under performing defense is concerned about when they are going to get their blackshirts. Picking some relatively better than average performance in the middle or later part of the season simply has not worked to any positive effect. Look at knapps summary of when Bo has handed them out, why, and then the D's performance after that.

 

My opinion is that it is a useless window dressing tradition if it does not motivate the players and help make the whole unit better. Bo's way has not accomplished those goals. If you are the best performing player at your position, you have earned it whether you are very good or not. If you stumble one week and it goes to #2 on the depth chart, hopefully it would motivate both players, one to get it back and one to keep it and possibly 3 or 4 to step up their game and go after it. If nobody has them, you don't have that.

 

The other problem I see, that nobody has brought up, is that the current system seems to put all responsibility on the players and zero on the coaching staff. The gist is, we coaches have these to hand out but you guys haven't done enough to earn them. It kind of glosses over that possibly the coaches aren't getting their job done too and puts it all on the players. If they give them out for the first game, they then have to admit that this is the best we've got to offer and, if it's not real impressive, then that's on the coaches as well. It helps to hold them accountable for their recruiting and what they're accomplishing in practices.

 

My only dog in the fight, besides the obvious desire for a more sound defense, is that I don't want to see the tradition watered down to having no meaning. Giving them out in week 8 and getting your ass handed to you in week 9 and the CCG tarnishes the tradition way more than giving them out week one and then going about your business with the constant motivation of keeping that shirt or getting it from the next guy.

  • Fire 5
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So let's go with this scenario. Starter x doesn't perform well on gameday, and has his blackshirt taken away and given to backup y.

 

Starter x is told "you want it back? earn it" and so he does. He is a much better player than backup y (hence being a starter), so after owning backup y's lunch in practice on monday he gets his blackshirt back, having earned it over the player that shouldn't have ever been in front of him in the first place.

 

What does this accomplish? It's like firing a welder or a cook and hiring an inexperienced student in their place telling them to earn their job back - after 5 minutes, they have earned it back because they were more deserving of it in the first place. Seems like a pointless exercise.

 

I suppose if you look at it in the wrong light that it is pointless. Sure if the defense and most players, top to bottom, just plain aren't very good or don't have pride in earning or keeping their blackshirt then it is rather pointless either way. My problem with the current system is it merely provides a distraction and appears to be a negative or non motivator for the players. There is no benefit to the team if an under performing defense is concerned about when they are going to get their blackshirts. Picking some relatively better than average performance in the middle or later part of the season simply has not worked to any positive effect. Look at knapps summary of when Bo has handed them out, why, and then the D's performance after that.

 

My opinion is that it is a useless window dressing tradition if it does not motivate the players and help make the whole unit better. Bo's way has not accomplished those goals. If you are the best performing player at your position, you have earned it whether you are very good or not. If you stumble one week and it goes to #2 on the depth chart, hopefully it would motivate both players, one to get it back and one to keep it and possibly 3 or 4 to step up their game and go after it. If nobody has them, you don't have that.

 

The other problem I see, that nobody has brought up, is that the current system seems to put all responsibility on the players and zero on the coaching staff. The gist is, we coaches have these to hand out but you guys haven't done enough to earn them. It kind of glosses over that possibly the coaches aren't getting their job done too and puts it all on the players. If they give them out for the first game, they then have to admit that this is the best we've got to offer and, if it's not real impressive, then that's on the coaches as well. It helps to hold them accountable for their recruiting and what they're accomplishing in practices.

 

My only dog in the fight, besides the obvious desire for a more sound defense, is that I don't want to see the tradition watered down to having no meaning. Giving them out in week 8 and getting your ass handed to you in week 9 and the CCG tarnishes the tradition way more than giving them out week one and then going about your business with the constant motivation of keeping that shirt or getting it from the next guy.

 

 

 

Solid post.

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A ton of old school blue-haired responses in this thread that sound a tad Jason Peter-ish

 

And your examples of this are? I think it's been a pretty good discussion but I might be one those old school blue hairs to which you are referring. Sometimes it's not "old school blue hair" to suggest that traditions revert back to how they used to be. Those times IMO would be when the new way is not accomplishing anything and may possibly be providing negative motivation. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I think it's time to shake it up by taking the blackshirt tradition back to the way it used to be. Maybe just maybe it will help provide more blackshirtesque results on Saturdays. I don't see how it could hurt.

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So let's go with this scenario. Starter x doesn't perform well on gameday, and has his blackshirt taken away and given to backup y.

 

Starter x is told "you want it back? earn it" and so he does. He is a much better player than backup y (hence being a starter), so after owning backup y's lunch in practice on monday he gets his blackshirt back, having earned it over the player that shouldn't have ever been in front of him in the first place.

 

What does this accomplish? It's like firing a welder or a cook and hiring an inexperienced student in their place telling them to earn their job back - after 5 minutes, they have earned it back because they were more deserving of it in the first place. Seems like a pointless exercise.

 

I suppose if you look at it in the wrong light that it is pointless. Sure if the defense and most players, top to bottom, just plain aren't very good or don't have pride in earning or keeping their blackshirt then it is rather pointless either way. My problem with the current system is it merely provides a distraction and appears to be a negative or non motivator for the players. There is no benefit to the team if an under performing defense is concerned about when they are going to get their blackshirts. Picking some relatively better than average performance in the middle or later part of the season simply has not worked to any positive effect. Look at knapps summary of when Bo has handed them out, why, and then the D's performance after that.

 

My opinion is that it is a useless window dressing tradition if it does not motivate the players and help make the whole unit better. Bo's way has not accomplished those goals. If you are the best performing player at your position, you have earned it whether you are very good or not. If you stumble one week and it goes to #2 on the depth chart, hopefully it would motivate both players, one to get it back and one to keep it and possibly 3 or 4 to step up their game and go after it. If nobody has them, you don't have that.

 

The other problem I see, that nobody has brought up, is that the current system seems to put all responsibility on the players and zero on the coaching staff. The gist is, we coaches have these to hand out but you guys haven't done enough to earn them. It kind of glosses over that possibly the coaches aren't getting their job done too and puts it all on the players. If they give them out for the first game, they then have to admit that this is the best we've got to offer and, if it's not real impressive, then that's on the coaches as well. It helps to hold them accountable for their recruiting and what they're accomplishing in practices.

 

My only dog in the fight, besides the obvious desire for a more sound defense, is that I don't want to see the tradition watered down to having no meaning. Giving them out in week 8 and getting your ass handed to you in week 9 and the CCG tarnishes the tradition way more than giving them out week one and then going about your business with the constant motivation of keeping that shirt or getting it from the next guy.

+1!

 

Wow! In my opinion, this is the most articulate & well thought out post of this whole discussion. Well done. :clap

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A ton of old school blue-haired responses in this thread that sound a tad Jason Peter-ish

 

And your examples of this are? I think it's been a pretty good discussion but I might be one those old school blue hairs to which you are referring. Sometimes it's not "old school blue hair" to suggest that traditions revert back to how they used to be. Those times IMO would be when the new way is not accomplishing anything and may possibly be providing negative motivation. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I think it's time to shake it up by taking the blackshirt tradition back to the way it used to be. Maybe just maybe it will help provide more blackshirtesque results on Saturdays. I don't see how it could hurt.

 

In 09 if you remember correctly, Bo tried to give them out after we beat Mizzou. The Defense said no. We need to do it one more game and that game was against Texas Tech. We gave up 31 points (7 of which were when Niles Paul fumbled) and only 259 yards against a Mike Leach offense that had usually owned us. They earned them. It has been that way since '08 and I absolutely have no problem with that.

 

Remember in '07? They were given out in camp. That defense towards the end of the year appeared to not even care. I remember watching them and screaming the rhetorical question "Are you even trying?" Over and over at the TV after about the Okie State game that year. I don't recall them ever not getting to wear their black practice jerseys. You tell me. What is a bigger "break in tradition?" A team like the 07 team that ( again to my knowledge) never had to give theirs up. Or a team that comes together and works to earn it and agrees upon it?

 

Again, the players know the deal and they know the standards they are being held to and have agreed upon them. No issue with the way this tradition is being handled.

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The tradition was that they were earned prior to the first game. If we want to go back to the traditions that made NU great, we need to go back to that. The guys earn these by going hard in spring, summer and fall practice. the jersey's are awarded by the coaches who see them first hand in this environment.

 

Let the guys beat each other senseless to earn the coveted prize of the jersey. Coach Brown alluded to this mentality when speaking of the work AA has put in since arriving. AA knew the goal and what it would take to be the man. He worked his butt off. On special teams, in the weight room and when given the opportunity on the field. He got "it". Guys who get "it" on the D would do what ever it takes to get the jersey. This is the mentality that earning it on the practice field would bring. For the record I like J Peter. He has id right when he said that practices were much harder than games. I would like to think this was because of the street brawling mentality these guys had when they slipped on the Black Shirts. The symbol is the skull and crossbones for a reasons...........

 

Bo's current method has no rhyme or reason. A great stand against some also ran program means nothing. Letting 23 guys get them means nothing. He has established permanent captains. Great. He is making the guys accountable to the staff and each other. Great. Now cry havoc and let slip the Blackshirts prior to game one. Guys don't pull their weight on D, they answer to them. Get the swagger and the nasty back. Make people afraid to play us again. Make teams scared after the beat downs of this season that they have to face us again next year. The problem, as I see it is that no one fears NU any more.

Link to comment

A ton of old school blue-haired responses in this thread that sound a tad Jason Peter-ish

 

And your examples of this are? I think it's been a pretty good discussion but I might be one those old school blue hairs to which you are referring. Sometimes it's not "old school blue hair" to suggest that traditions revert back to how they used to be. Those times IMO would be when the new way is not accomplishing anything and may possibly be providing negative motivation. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I think it's time to shake it up by taking the blackshirt tradition back to the way it used to be. Maybe just maybe it will help provide more blackshirtesque results on Saturdays. I don't see how it could hurt.

 

In 09 if you remember correctly, Bo tried to give them out after we beat Mizzou. The Defense said no. We need to do it one more game and that game was against Texas Tech. We gave up 31 points (7 of which were when Niles Paul fumbled) and only 259 yards against a Mike Leach offense that had usually owned us. They earned them. It has been that way since '08 and I absolutely have no problem with that.

 

Remember in '07? They were given out in camp. That defense towards the end of the year appeared to not even care. I remember watching them and screaming the rhetorical question "Are you even trying?" Over and over at the TV after about the Okie State game that year. I don't recall them ever not getting to wear their black practice jerseys. You tell me. What is a bigger "break in tradition?" A team like the 07 team that ( again to my knowledge) never had to give theirs up. Or a team that comes together and works to earn it and agrees upon it?

 

Again, the players know the deal and they know the standards they are being held to and have agreed upon them. No issue with the way this tradition is being handled.

 

For all your concern about the "old school blue hairs," you seem to have entirely missed the tradition of the Blackshirts. Which is not surprising knowing how youthful you are. But these examples pale in comparison to the Blackshirts the "old school blue hairs" know.

 

I understand that you know a few of the players. That's great. Almost every one of them was born in 1990 or later, and none of them were old enough to really understand this tradition, where it came from and why it means so much to people today. Using these players as examples of how it should be entirely misses the point. They're young men - they have neither the experience nor the memories of the great Blackshirt defenses.

 

There's a predatory aspect to the real Blackshirts that these guys know nothing of. Certainly they don't evince that aspect of the tradition, aside from a few players here and there over the past, say, ten years or so. There were more "true" Blackshirts on the 1993 defense than in all of the 2000s.

 

So you'll have to pardon us "old school blue hairs." Those of us who weren't still crapping our diapers when the last few real Blackshirt defenses played. I guess we just don't understand like you.

  • Fire 5
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A ton of old school blue-haired responses in this thread that sound a tad Jason Peter-ish

 

And your examples of this are? I think it's been a pretty good discussion but I might be one those old school blue hairs to which you are referring. Sometimes it's not "old school blue hair" to suggest that traditions revert back to how they used to be. Those times IMO would be when the new way is not accomplishing anything and may possibly be providing negative motivation. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I think it's time to shake it up by taking the blackshirt tradition back to the way it used to be. Maybe just maybe it will help provide more blackshirtesque results on Saturdays. I don't see how it could hurt.

 

In 09 if you remember correctly, Bo tried to give them out after we beat Mizzou. The Defense said no. We need to do it one more game and that game was against Texas Tech. We gave up 31 points (7 of which were when Niles Paul fumbled) and only 259 yards against a Mike Leach offense that had usually owned us. They earned them. It has been that way since '08 and I absolutely have no problem with that.

 

Remember in '07? They were given out in camp. That defense towards the end of the year appeared to not even care. I remember watching them and screaming the rhetorical question "Are you even trying?" Over and over at the TV after about the Okie State game that year. I don't recall them ever not getting to wear their black practice jerseys. You tell me. What is a bigger "break in tradition?" A team like the 07 team that ( again to my knowledge) never had to give theirs up. Or a team that comes together and works to earn it and agrees upon it?

 

Again, the players know the deal and they know the standards they are being held to and have agreed upon them. No issue with the way this tradition is being handled.

 

For all your concern about the "old school blue hairs," you seem to have entirely missed the tradition of the Blackshirts. Which is not surprising knowing how youthful you are. But these examples pale in comparison to the Blackshirts the "old school blue hairs" know.

 

I understand that you know a few of the players. That's great. Almost every one of them was born in 1990 or later, and none of them were old enough to really understand this tradition, where it came from and why it means so much to people today. Using these players as examples of how it should be entirely misses the point. They're young men - they have neither the experience nor the memories of the great Blackshirt defenses.

 

There's a predatory aspect to the real Blackshirts that these guys know nothing of. Certainly they don't evince that aspect of the tradition, aside from a few players here and there over the past, say, ten years or so. There were more "true" Blackshirts on the 1993 defense than in all of the 2000s.

 

So you'll have to pardon us "old school blue hairs." Those of us who weren't still crapping our diapers when the last few real Blackshirt defenses played. I guess we just don't understand like you.

 

7890f6112c0b7925960efaa915a58a56-dropmic3.gif

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Ummm....Dayum. Now that's the fire, passion, intimidation and straight up ass kicking power that I'm talking about when I think of a Blackshirt! These kids these days want to talk about swagger all the time. We to hell with talk, and to hell with swagger. Blackshirts take the field knowing they can kick the sh#t out of anyone on the opposing team. Blackshirts sacrifice. Blackshirts put it all on the line for each other. It's a brotherhood. A membership into the Blackshirt brotherhood should never be just "given" away. It's far too important to too many people. It represents a lot more than just a damn practice jersey to me. Maybe I'm too old school in my way of thinking, which might be why I butt heads with some here. I have a lot of pride and passion in me. These kids need to take the field with pride and passion. Represent the old school. The guys who did it the right way years ago.

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The tradition was that they were earned prior to the first game. If we want to go back to the traditions that made NU great, we need to go back to that. The guys earn these by going hard in spring, summer and fall practice. the jersey's are awarded by the coaches who see them first hand in this environment.

 

Let the guys beat each other senseless to earn the coveted prize of the jersey. Coach Brown alluded to this mentality when speaking of the work AA has put in since arriving. AA knew the goal and what it would take to be the man. He worked his butt off. On special teams, in the weight room and when given the opportunity on the field. He got "it". Guys who get "it" on the D would do what ever it takes to get the jersey. This is the mentality that earning it on the practice field would bring. For the record I like J Peter. He has id right when he said that practices were much harder than games. I would like to think this was because of the street brawling mentality these guys had when they slipped on the Black Shirts. The symbol is the skull and crossbones for a reasons...........

 

Bo's current method has no rhyme or reason. A great stand against some also ran program means nothing. Letting 23 guys get them means nothing. He has established permanent captains. Great. He is making the guys accountable to the staff and each other. Great. Now cry havoc and let slip the Blackshirts prior to game one. Guys don't pull their weight on D, they answer to them. Get the swagger and the nasty back. Make people afraid to play us again. Make teams scared after the beat downs of this season that they have to face us again next year. The problem, as I see it is that no one fears NU any more.

 

You somewhat lost me at the Jason Peter comment. Guy did a ton of great things here and some of the absolute very basic things he says are okay. But the man is a bigot.

 

You do also realize that with as many different packages we run, there could be different starters each game. Cainte Evans was our nickelback last year, wasn't always on the field on the first play. Does he not get one because he doesn't "start" in our base package???

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EZ-E, it's not that I am concerned about doing it the "traditional" way or not. In fact prior to just recently (some point towards mid to late last season) I was in favor of doing it the Bo earn em way. It didn't/doesn't bother me at all that it wasn't the way McBride did it. What bothers me is I think they could get more good out of the blackshirt tradition by doing it the old way. I am convinced that it has not been a force for good during Bo's tenure and I at least partially blame that on the way it has been administered. Really the bigger culprit has just plain been team defense that hasn't been as good as it could or should be. Blaming that on how and when black jerseys are handed out is probably short sighted at best. But I just feel it could be more of a positive force handled the other way.

 

Your examples of the 07 and 08 defenses proves nothing to me. You stated they couldn't take them back from the 07 team , apparently with the thought they weren't deserved. But the old way they sure could've taken them away from those who didn't care and given them to the next guy up. If nobody on the team cares enough to have one or earn it that way, then we've got much bigger and deeper problems than the blackshirt sideshow can fix.

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A ton of old school blue-haired responses in this thread that sound a tad Jason Peter-ish

 

And your examples of this are? I think it's been a pretty good discussion but I might be one those old school blue hairs to which you are referring. Sometimes it's not "old school blue hair" to suggest that traditions revert back to how they used to be. Those times IMO would be when the new way is not accomplishing anything and may possibly be providing negative motivation. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I think it's time to shake it up by taking the blackshirt tradition back to the way it used to be. Maybe just maybe it will help provide more blackshirtesque results on Saturdays. I don't see how it could hurt.

 

In 09 if you remember correctly, Bo tried to give them out after we beat Mizzou. The Defense said no. We need to do it one more game and that game was against Texas Tech. We gave up 31 points (7 of which were when Niles Paul fumbled) and only 259 yards against a Mike Leach offense that had usually owned us. They earned them. It has been that way since '08 and I absolutely have no problem with that.

 

Remember in '07? They were given out in camp. That defense towards the end of the year appeared to not even care. I remember watching them and screaming the rhetorical question "Are you even trying?" Over and over at the TV after about the Okie State game that year. I don't recall them ever not getting to wear their black practice jerseys. You tell me. What is a bigger "break in tradition?" A team like the 07 team that ( again to my knowledge) never had to give theirs up. Or a team that comes together and works to earn it and agrees upon it?

 

Again, the players know the deal and they know the standards they are being held to and have agreed upon them. No issue with the way this tradition is being handled.

 

For all your concern about the "old school blue hairs," you seem to have entirely missed the tradition of the Blackshirts. Which is not surprising knowing how youthful you are. But these examples pale in comparison to the Blackshirts the "old school blue hairs" know.

 

I understand that you know a few of the players. That's great. Almost every one of them was born in 1990 or later, and none of them were old enough to really understand this tradition, where it came from and why it means so much to people today. Using these players as examples of how it should be entirely misses the point. They're young men - they have neither the experience nor the memories of the great Blackshirt defenses.

 

There's a predatory aspect to the real Blackshirts that these guys know nothing of. Certainly they don't evince that aspect of the tradition, aside from a few players here and there over the past, say, ten years or so. There were more "true" Blackshirts on the 1993 defense than in all of the 2000s.

 

So you'll have to pardon us "old school blue hairs." Those of us who weren't still crapping our diapers when the last few real Blackshirt defenses played. I guess we just don't understand like you.

 

Educate me bro. Who was worthy in the 2000s?

 

Edit.

 

Furthermore, since I don't know anything about anyone being a true BlackShirt how should it be done. Since you know a ton more than I do.

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