Square Pegs, and Circle Holes

[skersfan]

We ran off Watson, Beck is not doing a good enough job. One of the best college coaches demanded we keep Watson. The one thing that has remained constant is the head coach. I think Bo messes with it too much, instead of allowing his coordinators to establish and identity, be it defense or offense. Too much micro managing.

 

Bama, according the finebaum, He lives Bama football, recruits kids that are an exact size, height and speed for each position. It is like looking at mirror for each line backer, safety, running back. They all look exactly the same, to do the same exact job. Is it right, I have no idea, I have never played the game at this level, but if the top coach in the country does it this way year after year, there is a pretty good reason for it.

 

Know what we are going to do, recruit to the idea and move forward. I understand that is not always going to happen. I think the main reason is we end up with scraps so to speak. We throw out the net and what ever is caught we take. With our recruiting we can not be as selective as Bama I am sure, but we need to decided what is best for our program, not just today, but down the road.

[JJ Husker]

If we use the history of our program as a guide we can begin to answer some of these questions. The offensive identity needs to centered more on the guys up front than on the higher profile players. Control, I mean really control the LOS and things get simpler and much less susceptible to injury.

 

We lost arguably one of the best option quarterbacks, Tommie Frazier, to injury, and he was backed up by a guy who could throw, Brook Berringer, but wasn't the greatest option qb, who then got injured and was backed up by Matt Turman, who was lesser talented in both areas. TO adjusted game plans and play calling to fit their strengths, it didn't require wholesale changes to the scheme, just some tweaks, depending on who was in the game. However, the constant and more important factor imo was that we built depth on the OL and controlled the LOS. Time has not changed the importance of that approach to the offensive game.

 

Flash forward to Minny game circa 2013..........Our coaches stick with an injured immobile read option qb and try to utilize him as a pocket passer. Imo, it wasn't the "system" that failed but rather the guy(s), Beck and Pelini, who are responsible for tweaking any system. Losing TM hurt, but it shouldn't be team season ender, ever. Yes we had numerous injuries on our OL that contributed to some problems but I feel those guys filled in and stepped up just fine. The thing that didn't fill in , step up, and meet the challenge were the coaches. I assume and hope they are learning these lessons.

[lo country]

I've always thought of Osborne's offenses as being "multiple". That's why the recurring "multiple is bad" discussion always makes me roll my eyes. I agree that a power running game would help us and fits into many offenses - even a dreaded "multiple" offense. Our version of the spread running game incorporates power running plays, and it seemed like a good fit with our ability to run on everyone but Iowa.

the multiple you speak of in regards to Osborne is different than that of the one people are complaining of with Beck. Sure, Osborne didnt come out in an I set every play, and would often spread it out and such, but you knew what was coming with him as well. Run first. Play Action and so on. It's not the multiplicity of playcalling and formation that's the problem. It's the whole philosphy. There's no identity. Our offense is a jack of all trades, master of none unit, and when need be, there is not one single individual facet of our offense that can be fully leaned upon in any sort of critical moment. Without a 5th years senior qb with priceless experience and gamebreaking ability in his legs, Beck's total lack of identity was severely exposed this year.

This. TO ran a simple offense with multiple motions and formations. Not multiple plays. His genius was the ability to disguise the plays through the "multiple" ways in which the base O could be run. TO ran the same O when Tommie went down and Brook came in and then Turman. He didn't go to try and call a completely different O. He stayed with what worked. Run, run, run, He didn't try to design a new one when Tommie graduated or Gill etc... It was the same with minute modifications. NOt whole sale change.

 

http://sportsillustr...827/1/index.htm

 

The above is an old article talking about NU winning games with a QB who couldn't run and one who couldn't throw. BUT TO had a game plan that all the guys knew that allowed NU to win, and win and win.............

 

Multiple sucks. Get great at something. Stick with it. Win games.

 

From another article:

Oklahoma State Coach Pat Jones said, "With No. 11 (Turman) in there, it became an inside run drill. They just lined up and whipped us."

See, TO did what NU does. He stayed with the run, didn't try to make players run an O they couldn't. They went with what worked. Why do we, under Beck, continue to abandon what works for the sake of "running our O?"

[Count 'Bility]

I'd like to see us get back to putting our wr's in a 3 point stance ala 1991. It all went down hill when we stood up our receivers. I know, I know, we were still elite for a decade, but the wheels were set in motion. We're really paying for TO's decision to stand up the receivers now a days.

[huskerinacaveman]

I find it funny that when husker fans say that Beck is a crap OC because he keeps forcing something when its not working.

The next week he is a crap OC because he doesn't stick with the same play.

 

Then we have the week where everything clicks well and we talk about how long it will be before he leaves for a head coaching gig.

 

We have to be one of the most Bi-Polar fan bases out there.

 

 

I am glad that someone brought up the year that Tommy Frazier went out for the year and then talk about how Tom Osborne kept the offense the same.

BB wasn't an option QB, and was a walk on just like RK3. Tommy Frazier passed on average 10 times through the first four games (14 times a game for the 93 season). Brook passed on average 21 times through 7 games. That is a pretty big difference. For those who say that TO ran the same offense and just stuck with the run. Yes he did because Phillips still had an awesome year that year, but there was a significant change to throwing the ball more too

 

Difference is that Tom Osborne did change his game plan so he didn't just stay with the same game plan and Brook still had a great line in front of him. TA and RK3 did not have much of a line towards the end of the season. Had the line stayed the same and the same other injuries took place this year, We might have won another game or two, and the close ones might not have been so close.

[NUance]

Okay, I've been seeing this thread title for three days now. Who calls it a "circle" hole? It's a round hole, damnit! ROUND!!

 

[huskerinacaveman]

Okay, I've been seeing this thread title for three days now. Who calls it a "circle" hole? It's a round hole, damnit! ROUND!!

 

lol, I did, and you're right. Forgive me

[SandBarHusker]

Serious question.

 

Do you think Coach Osborne, another 9 game winner, ever had a doubt as to what his offense was going to be this time of year. My guess he knew what it was going to be, just did not know who the pieces would be. Hint, that most likely is in play at Bama. I know they lost their QB this year, but my guess is Saben has a clue of what he is going to do. But alas he does ask for help. Kinda reminds me of an old coach we used to have. winning above ego, maybe someday.

 

Who says Bo doesn't know what his offense is going to do? they are multiple they adapt. Anyone remember our prototype running quarterback throwing 5 TD's against UCLA? He went by the name of Steve Taylor. So yes....even TO went against his so called identiy. To say we don't have an offensive identity is crap. yes we have been forced to do "multiple" for the strength of the QB's we were playing. All three of the QB's this year were hurt and/or playing different styles. Saying our coach's don't have a clue is really failing to understand. With the qb situation and playing 2nd and 3rd string lineman, not to mention two of our wide receivers out a good part of the year. I'm surprised they got as much as they did out of this offense. Why can't we just recognize this and give credit where it's due. To say our coaches don't have a clue what we are doing on offense.....well it just shows maybe we aren't the smartest posters

[skersfan]

So when we have injured running QB, we make him into Montana, when we have a passing QB we make hin try to run the ball, I understand,

 

You work with the hand your dealt, play to the strengths of your players, and realize what those strengths are and game plan for them. But the first fault is you need to recruit to what you want to do. IE running the ball, does not mean just a running QB. It means highly skilled WR's that block, road graders up front and powerful speedy backs. In our system those would doing nearly anything but what they are best at. Decide what you are going to do, recruit to that. We don't. We take what ever we can get, then try to make something out of it.

 

And as far as buying into the multiple scheme we seem to play by, maybe the dumbest of us posters, just do not buy that we have a plan. Because anytime we show up against a better team, our plan goes out the window and it is raga muffin oneway and then another. Osborne practiced basic plays ran off of different sets and skill types, but the same basic plays over and over and over, so they could do it in their sleep. We find plays that work, we run them two three times and they are never to be seen again.

[Landlord]

All of this messageboard fodder about "being multiple" and "offensive identity" and "pick a system" is just ridiculous.

 

 

 

These are all strawmen that you guys have created to argue against. If you don't think Tim Beck, as an established Division I offensive coordinator with moderate success and a wizard on the defensive side of the ball as his head coach, doesn't know how to develop an offense better than you, then that's on you, not him. Because that is laughable.

 

These coaches aren't perfect, but they know what they're doing. Not the entirety of it as if they were omniscient, but leaps and bounds more of it than any of us will ever dream to understand. These arguments against being multiple and yadda yadda are just yelling at imaginary ghosts.

 

Just because you don't know what it "is" and just because you can't group it all together inside of man-made categorical terms such as pro-style or i-formation or under-center or spread or power football or whatever else, doesn't mean our offense doesn't have an identity. Tim Beck has a playbook that he's made for this team and that's their identity. It's really that simple.

 

 

It's not like there are a lot of teams you can point to and fit their offense into a neat little box and say "I know what this offense is." There are a few where you have a bit of an idea, but plenty of the good ones are just as ~MuLtIpLe~ as ours.

[sd'sker]

thanks, landlord. i have been thinking that for a long time, but was unable to word it as well as you did.

[gratefullred]

All of this messageboard fodder about "being multiple" and "offensive identity" and "pick a system" is just ridiculous.

 

 

 

These are all strawmen that you guys have created to argue against. If you don't think Tim Beck, as an established Division I offensive coordinator with moderate success and a wizard on the defensive side of the ball as his head coach, doesn't know how to develop an offense better than you, then that's on you, not him. Because that is laughable.

 

These coaches aren't perfect, but they know what they're doing. Not the entirety of it as if they were omniscient, but leaps and bounds more of it than any of us will ever dream to understand. These arguments against being multiple and yadda yadda are just yelling at imaginary ghosts.

 

Just because you don't know what it "is" and just because you can't group it all together inside of man-made categorical terms such as pro-style or i-formation or under-center or spread or power football or whatever else, doesn't mean our offense doesn't have an identity. Tim Beck has a playbook that he's made for this team and that's their identity. It's really that simple.

 

 

It's not like there are a lot of teams you can point to and fit their offense into a neat little box and say "I know what this offense is." There are a few where you have a bit of an idea, but plenty of the good ones are just as ~MuLtIpLe~ as ours.

Messageboards were made to create messageboard fodder. If there were no messageboards there would be no messageboard fodder. I want to see our o huddle. Is that messageboard fodder which creates a straw man?

 

I can fit a lot of teams into a category that describes their offense. Alabama is pro, MSU is pro, OSU is power-spread, Oregon is speed-spread, NU is speed-spread until the QB gets hurt then they become power-spread and the change seems like a problem to me. It seems to me Beck got all excited after visiting with Oregon and decided that TM could do it, then spent 2 years working on that style of offense, and as soon as TM got hurt scrapped the whole thing. That is not having a style of offense, that is not having a system.

[Landlord]

It seems to me Beck got all excited after visiting with Oregon and decided that TM could do it, then spent 2 years working on that style of offense, and as soon as TM got hurt scrapped the whole thing. That is not having a style of offense, that is not having a system.

 

 

This is a bit hyperbolic don't you think? Scrapped the whole thing?

 

Pretty sure I saw quick WR flat bubble routes with Taylor and Tommy/Ronnie.

Pretty sure I saw a lot of zone read with Taylor and Tommy/Ronnie.

Pretty sure I saw a good amount of option with Taylor and Tommy/Ronnie.

Pretty sure I saw heavy use of play action off the zone read with Taylor and Tommy/Ronnie.

Pretty sure I saw plenty of stretch handoffs, pistol iso's and power sweeps to Ameer with Taylor and Tommy/Ronnie.

Pretty sure I saw diamond formation in the same down and distance situations with Taylor and Tommy/Ronnie.

 

 

But yeah. He scrapped the whole thing.

[gratefullred]

It seems to me Beck got all excited after visiting with Oregon and decided that TM could do it, then spent 2 years working on that style of offense, and as soon as TM got hurt scrapped the whole thing. That is not having a style of offense, that is not having a system.

 

 

This is a bit hyperbolic don't you think? Scrapped the whole thing?

 

Pretty sure I saw quick WR flat bubble routes with Taylor and Tommy/Ronnie.

Pretty sure I saw a lot of zone read with Taylor and Tommy/Ronnie.

Pretty sure I saw a good amount of option with Taylor and Tommy/Ronnie.

Pretty sure I saw heavy use of play action off the zone read with Taylor and Tommy/Ronnie.

Pretty sure I saw plenty of stretch handoffs, pistol iso's and power sweeps to Ameer with Taylor and Tommy/Ronnie.

Pretty sure I saw diamond formation in the same down and distance situations with Taylor and Tommy/Ronnie.

 

 

But yeah. He scrapped the whole thing.

speed it up, yeah he scrapped it. That's Oregon spread-spead. Moved to spread-power with TA and RKIII.

 

Beck needs to have a system and when the QB gets hurt the system isnt scrapped.

 

To a further point the offensive system is reliant on what the defensive system will be,

 

The O must practice against a practice D, and that D will become a spread D if practicing vs a spread O.

[Landlord]

It seems to me Beck got all excited after visiting with Oregon and decided that TM could do it, then spent 2 years working on that style of offense, and as soon as TM got hurt scrapped the whole thing. That is not having a style of offense, that is not having a system.

 

 

This is a bit hyperbolic don't you think? Scrapped the whole thing?

 

Pretty sure I saw quick WR flat bubble routes with Taylor and Tommy/Ronnie.

Pretty sure I saw a lot of zone read with Taylor and Tommy/Ronnie.

Pretty sure I saw a good amount of option with Taylor and Tommy/Ronnie.

Pretty sure I saw heavy use of play action off the zone read with Taylor and Tommy/Ronnie.

Pretty sure I saw plenty of stretch handoffs, pistol iso's and power sweeps to Ameer with Taylor and Tommy/Ronnie.

Pretty sure I saw diamond formation in the same down and distance situations with Taylor and Tommy/Ronnie.

 

 

But yeah. He scrapped the whole thing.

speed it up, yeah he scrapped it. That's Oregon spread-spead. Moved to spread-power with TA and RKIII.

 

Beck needs to have a system and when the QB gets hurt the system isnt scrapped.

 

To a further point the offensive system is reliant on what the defensive system will be,

 

The O must practice against a practice D, and that D will become a spread D if practicing vs a spread O.