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Game of Thrones - Please no spoilers from ASOIAF


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What if Dany and Jon never find out? Or find out too late, in some twisted way? Crucial revelations delivered in the nick of time to save the day is the sort of deus ex machina trope that GoT is especially well-suited to subvert.

It is what bad B movies do and also every 80's movie and every John Hughes movie. It works...but not for this.

 

I don't see a happy ending in the traditional sense.

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The more I think about this, the more I feel the dystopian rules GoT has laid out to date are going to be really tough to invert. Bad things happening to good people and "winners" having to compromise their values, or become villains, this has described much of the history of Westeros -- at least it seems to me (not a book reader).

 

Let's say a Good Guy wins. How can we reasonably expect whatever "peace" comes with that to endure? Is there any way for this show to deliver a traditional good triumphs ending that is convincing and meaningful?

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The more I think about this, the more I feel the dystopian rules GoT has laid out to date are going to be really tough to invert. Bad things happening to good people and "winners" having to compromise their values, or become villains, this has described much of the history of Westeros -- at least it seems to me (not a book reader).

 

Let's say a Good Guy wins. How can we reasonably expect whatever "peace" comes with that to endure? Is there any way for this show to deliver a traditional good triumphs ending that is convincing and meaningful?

George rr Martin has said the ending is bittersweet.

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On a happy ending: I dunno. All this bad stuff didn't happen just for a few circumstances to come together and produce a string of amazingly good things for everyone, did it?

 

#TeamWhiteWalkers

That's what makes GoT so compelling to watch....they give you the unexpected and you never have a really good read on what is coming next. At this point it could be a good guy or it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it ends with the Night King on the throne.

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I'm guessing Sansa will rule the north and Dany will be queen. Maybe Jon Snow will fight for democracy. Although seeing as he's Dany's nephew it wouldn't be surprising if he ruled the north for her. Although he wants the north to be its own thing, and so do the other northerners.

I was going to say Jon would be an awful riler because he's a pushover but he was pretty bad ass while he was the lord commander, so I dunno.

Dany may believe she is the rightful heir to the throne. The thing is, if Jon's parents got married, he would be the rightful heir. Rhaegar is farther up the line of succession than Dany. His heir would then be next in line. Now he could abdicate the throne, but I believe it would be his decision.

But they didn't get married so the point is mute. Not only did they not get married, Rhaegar broke his previous engagement to run away with the daughter of his family's enemy. (I don't buy that he kidnapped and raped her).

The only reason Jon is king of the north is because everyone thought he was Ned's only living son, and they're living in exceptional times.

Dany is alive and well and has the only claim to lead the Targaryens as long as that's true and they're following the previous rules of succession.

Ahem.

 

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Well that settles that. Leave it to Gilly to discover the biggest secret 20 years in the making, and Sam to, for the only time in his life, not be interested in some "trivial" knowledge of Westerosi history.

 

 

This episode was absolutely fantastic. What it lacked in action it made up for in revelations, fan-service-y quips, and an informed remembering of past events.

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This was another season premiere, and in that sense, immensely unsatisfying. Big announcements about the course of the show are no longer developed, they're revealed. The reveals aren't even paced, they're mashed together. This season in the big picture is less of a story and a mystery slowly unfolding (Season 1) than a series of real-time 'flashbacks' happening at breakneck pace. Why bother with flashbacks unless they're trying (but barely) to mask that?

 

Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of the acting right now and the Loot Train Battle was pretty amazing (less so in the aftermath). Things are just zooming by right now when they shouldn't. I like the "mystery box" model.

 

And the reason this is rushed is also a little plain: there's plenty of things happening to cover several full seasons, but they either can't sustain that budget/time wise, or are out of the energy to come up with the stories so far past the source material. So they've just outlined how they want the chess pieces to move and are blasting through the showing of this so we can all have closure. The series is being abbreviated, albeit with pomp and fanfare.

 

Jon has also emerged a little too clearly right now, I think. And it's a lot less through his journey than through information drops -- which themselves were literally just dropped, or teased and then dropped. For the Rhaeger thing, for example, I think you may as well just have a full reveal earlier and then show all the characters dealing with this new bit of information. There seems barely enough time for that.

 

If there are surprises in store or a strong pivot from the current path, then it seems like it will again be by revelation or plot twist. I guess that's kind of how the show always operated?...anyway. Some of the weak points amidst the strong.

 

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What did Gilly discover?

 

 

 

 

 

Which, if it is in fact Rhaegar Targaryen's secret marriage to Lyanna Stark (Ned's sister) being referenced-which it has to be, would mean that Jon Snow is not a bastard and he would have a better claim to the throne than Daenerys. You have to assume that the light will come on for Sam in the future even though it didn't register when Gilly read it to him.

 

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This was another season premiere, and in that sense, immensely unsatisfying. Big announcements about the course of the show are no longer developed, they're revealed. The reveals aren't even paced, they're mashed together. This season in the big picture is less of a story and a mystery slowly unfolding (Season 1) than a series of real-time 'flashbacks' happening at breakneck pace. Why bother with flashbacks unless they're trying (but barely) to mask that?

 

Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of the acting right now and the Loot Train Battle was pretty amazing (less so in the aftermath). Things are just zooming by right now when they shouldn't. I like the "mystery box" model.

 

And the reason this is rushed is also a little plain: there's plenty of things happening to cover several full seasons, but they either can't sustain that budget/time wise, or are out of the energy to come up with the stories so far past the source material. So they've just outlined how they want the chess pieces to move and are blasting through the showing of this so we can all have closure. The series is being abbreviated, albeit with pomp and fanfare.

 

Jon has also emerged a little too clearly right now, I think. And it's a lot less through his journey than through information drops -- which themselves were literally just dropped, or teased and then dropped. For the Rhaeger thing, for example, I think you may as well just have a full reveal earlier and then show all the characters dealing with this new bit of information. There seems barely enough time for that.

 

If there are surprises in store or a strong pivot from the current path, then it seems like it will again be by revelation or plot twist. I guess that's kind of how the show always operated?...anyway. Some of the weak points amidst the strong.

 

 

IDK, the show must be moving at about the right pace. Some people have complained that not enough happens and the setups take too long while others are saying it is moving too briskly and feels rushed. I would agree that the pace has changed beginning this season or maybe it is just the circumstance of so many characters now running into each other and interacting. The story sure could be dragged out another 4 full seasons but I think since they have gone beyond the source material and everyone is on a collision course, there is some impetus and inevitability to get it wrapped up. Considering there are only 8 episodes left to the end, I think we can expect plenty to be happening and revealed every week from now on.

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