What's the biggest reason for Blacks not advancing

[LukeinNE]

 

The scene tonight in Ferguson is vastly different

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/14/with-highway-patrol-hugs-and-kisses-replace-tear-gas-in-ferguson/

 

Incredible what can happen when a police force chooses to lead and respect the public rather than intimidate them. Too bad this wasn't be the operating procedure from the beginning.

 

 

Hopefully the calm holds through the night. At least the tone seems to be changing. The SWAT gear in broad daylight was ridiculous.

[Omaha-Husker]

CNN interviewing Capt. Johnson right now and he is saying some amazing things. This is such an important moment in our nation's history, I really think(or at least hope)this will be a watershed moment for places like STL, Chicago, Detroit, Omaha and America as a whole.

[walksalone]

The protesters initial intent was good, trying to bring light to an issue to light that they felt strongly about.

 

But then you have a group that doesn't know how to act like grown ups, and seize the opportunity to create civil disobedience, loot, take an already volatile situation and make it worse. That just shows a lack of judgement, responsibility, and no sense of community. And it doesn’t shine a positive light on those in charge of the protest if your going to have trouble making douchebags making looting and rioting the story instead of the kid that got shot.

 

And the cops in Ferguson, are small town cops. How often do you think they train for situations such as this? Probably hardly if at all, which is a gig on the leadership of the police dept.

 

 

And a quick tip of the cap to those guys standing in the front. That’s a scary position to be in, because you not sure what that group might do.

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

 

However, I don't see a reason why local police need grenade launchers.

 

 

 

 

Maybe someone with more military/police experience than me can chime in, but when I read that I assumed the "grenade launchers" are meant to launch smoke/tear gas...not high explosive grenades.

 

I think the article title in an excellent example of "newstainment" over "journalism" because the title is meant to have the reader conclude the grenade launchers will be outfitted with high explosives...and not the more reasonable non-lethal ammunition like smoke and tear gas.

 

I think you're a smart guy, but I'm afraid (and I truly hope I'm right about this) your assumption is incorrect and you were misled by an unfortunate title written by someone more interested in getting links/hits to their article than providing an accurate perspective.

 

"Grenade launcher" and "Smoke/tear gas launcher" are essentially the same thing, just sounds better to sell your product by putting "Grenade launcher" out there.

 

Both sides are wrong in this situation with how they've handled it. You want a peaceful protest...............fine, but to the morons that decide they want to damage things, assault people, burn buildings down, they need to go to jail for their actions. To the peaceful protestors, talk like adults to the police and vice versa and work through the situation. I understand your concerns, but you don't know the whole story. You know the story that the media is putting out there, which is full of half-truths, because the whole truth can't be released until the entire case is closed.

 

To the Ferguson Police Chief, if your officers aren't trained to handle these types of situations, swallow your pride and bring someone in who is trained in these situations. The press has a right to film the situation and take note of the situation as does the regular citizen have the right to film police. The problem lies in if they interfere with what the police are trying to do. Film the situation, report the situation, but stay out of it and don't get in the way. And to the press, quit fueling the god damn fire, but putting a "white police officer" killed a "black man" because that's garbage journalism and you're only doing it to get "hits" on your articles and sell your news. Completely unnecessary!

 

The same citizens that are complaining about "innocent until proven guilty" are immediately saying the officer is guilty. Nevermind the reports from the officer that this individual assaulted the officer and tried to take his gun, that's justification for deadly force folks. We have a right to protect ourselves, we don't immediately say we'll let someone to kill us as soon as we take that oath. Until you're in a fight for your life with someone you won't understand, is what it is.

 

If I could find a different job to get into that paid the same as what I make right now I'd consider doing it if it was a good job. This country is on the fast track to having major clashes with police on a daily basis and both sides are at fault for that, but citizens also think every police officer they come in contact with is going to violate their rights which is LARGELY untrue.

 

I'm gonna say this, don't take your anger out on me because I'm a police officer. You want to talk like an adult and not twist words around, fine, we can talk, but if this turns into another situation like the "U.S. Supreme Court rules on cell phone searches" thread, I'm not gonna discuss this.

[LukeinNE]

+1, good post.

[carlfense]

Nevermind the reports from the officer that this individual assaulted the officer and tried to take his gun, that's justification for deadly force folks.

That's not accurate.

[LukeinNE]

 

Nevermind the reports from the officer that this individual assaulted the officer and tried to take his gun, that's justification for deadly force folks.

That's not accurate.

 

 

Wouldn't it depend, carl? I mean if a someone and an officer are actively grappling over the officer's gun, I would think the officer would rightly feel that his life was in imminent danger.

 

In the Ferguson case, though, I'm going to be very interested to hear what the explanation is for needing to shoot the Brown kid 35 feet from the patrol car, where the initial encounter apparently took place. I'm not going to say he's guilty before the evidence is in, but I've thought long and hard about timeline of the incident - physical altercation at the car, shot(s) fired in the car, Brown eventually gets shot again 35 feet from the car - and I can't think of a legitimate reason to have needed to kill him. Depending on the circumstances, the initial shots at the car could've been legitimate, but the ones 35 ft from the car? I could be wrong, maybe there's a good explanation, but I'm struggling to come up with one.

 

Also, according to Ferguson police, Brown and his friend were wanted for robbing a convenience store earlier that day. That doesn't mean the cop is off the hook by a long shot, but it does add important context to what initiated the confrontation in the first place.

[carlfense]

 

 

Nevermind the reports from the officer that this individual assaulted the officer and tried to take his gun, that's justification for deadly force folks.

That's not accurate.

 

 

Wouldn't it depend, carl? I mean if a someone and an officer are actively grappling over the officer's gun, I would think the officer would rightly feel that his life was in imminent danger.

 

In the Ferguson case, though, I'm going to be very interested to hear what the explanation is for needing to shoot the Brown kid 35 feet from the patrol car, where the initial encounter apparently took place. I'm not going to say he's guilty before the evidence is in, but I've thought long and hard about timeline of the incident - physical altercation at the car, shot(s) fired in the car, Brown eventually gets shot again 35 feet from the car - and I can't think of a legitimate reason to have needed to kill him. Depending on the circumstances, the initial shots at the car could've been legitimate, but the ones 35 ft from the car? I could be wrong, maybe there's a good explanation, but I'm struggling to come up with one.

 

Also, according to Ferguson police, Brown and his friend were wanted for robbing a convenience store earlier that day. That doesn't mean the cop is off the hook by a long shot, but it does add important context to what initiated the confrontation in the first place.

 

If the bold were the whole story it'd be entirely different. As you noted, the problem is that Brown wasn't shot while struggling over the officer's gun.

 

The shoplifting allegations that I have seen do not change the calculus for justification of force in the slightest.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

Nevermind the reports from the officer that this individual assaulted the officer and tried to take his gun, that's justification for deadly force folks.

That's not accurate.

 

Really? Then tell me what is accurate? Because I don't believe the individual that was with him in this situation because he was a suspect in a strong arm burglary/robbery earlier as well as the individual that was shot. If an individual attempts to take your weapon that's grounds for deadly force because it can be articulated by a reasonable person in like circumstances that the officer would be in fear for his life or the life of another. I don't see it any other way? I refuse to believe the reports being put out by the media because they are skewed. I know the "reports" are that they were just walking down the street, the officer tells them to get out of the street and on the sidewalk, they do so with their hands raised and this officer shoots Brown for apparently no reason after some sort of foot pursuit. Not buying that at all and the Chief of Police just released the information about Brown being a burglary/robbery suspect. So instead of stating, "That's not accurate" please expand your reasoning behind your comment.

 

Addendum: Noticed you answered some of this above in your last post. There is no way they are going to release all of the information involved in the shooting this quickly. The investigation needs to be completed in the shooting and the scene needs to be recreated. Don't believe everything you read just yet, I'm sure there is more to this story. Quit being so quick to immediately say the officer is guilty in this situation. He deserves the same rights as everyone else, it's called due process and innocent until proven guilty.

[carlfense]

. . . because he was a suspect in a strong arm burglary/robbery earlier as well as the individual that was shot.

Burglary? Strong arm robbery looks like a stretch . . . I think we both know where that would end up . . . but now some are saying it was a burglary? Sheesh.

 

If an individual attempts to take your weapon that's grounds for deadly force because it can be articulated by a reasonable person in like circumstances that the officer would be in fear for his life or the life of another.

If this individual was shot while struggling over the gun you would be correct.

 

Addendum: Noticed you answered some of this above in your last post. There is no way they are going to release all of the information involved in the shooting this quickly. The investigation needs to be completed in the shooting and the scene needs to be recreated. Don't believe everything you read just yet, I'm sure there is more to this story. Quit being so quick to immediately say the officer is guilty in this situation. He deserves the same rights as everyone else, it's called due process and innocent until proven guilty.

In the eyes of the law he will be innocent until proven guilty but that doesn't mean that I can't form my own somewhat educated opinion.

 

Given the distance involved and the fact that the officer must have retained possession of his weapon I can't see how you can get to justified use of force. We'll see.

[carlfense]

As an aside, I'd be very surprised if this officer is a bloodthirsty monster. It would take some drastically different/new facts for me to get to the point where I'd agree that this shooting was justified but my opinion is that it was most likely a really bad (and fatal) decision made in the heat of the moment.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

. . . because he was a suspect in a strong arm burglary/robbery earlier as well as the individual that was shot.

Burglary? Strong arm robbery looks like a stretch . . . I think we both know where that would end up . . . but now some are saying it was a burglary? Sheesh.

 

If an individual attempts to take your weapon that's grounds for deadly force because it can be articulated by a reasonable person in like circumstances that the officer would be in fear for his life or the life of another.

If this individual was shot while struggling over the gun you would be correct.

 

I don't see it any other way?

That much is clear.

 

Addendum: Noticed you answered some of this above in your last post. There is no way they are going to release all of the information involved in the shooting this quickly. The investigation needs to be completed in the shooting and the scene needs to be recreated. Don't believe everything you read just yet, I'm sure there is more to this story. Quit being so quick to immediately say the officer is guilty in this situation. He deserves the same rights as everyone else, it's called due process and innocent until proven guilty.

In the eyes of the law he will be innocent until proven guilty but that doesn't mean that I can't form my own somewhat educated opinion.

 

Given the distance involved and the fact that the officer must have retained possession of his weapon I can't see how you can get to justified use of force. We'll see.

 

Here you go Carl, http://news.yahoo.com/turmoil-tear-gas-way-hope-ferguson-053336976.html

 

That's why I put burglary/robbery, check the photos out on the side of the article if you'd like. Certaintly doesn't paint a good picture for Brown now does it?

 

I can form an opinion as well, what if the suspect runs away from the officer after attempting to take his weapon, shots were fired in the car and as Brown is running away from the officer he turns and attempts to point "something" at the officer that the officer can't tell is a weapon or not? Now take into account that this individual has already attempted to take the officers weapon which justify's deadly force and shots were fired. Also, take into account that the suspect has already proven he has the mindset that he's possibly willing to take the officer's life if it comes down to that. Wouldn't it be possible that this how the events occured? I realize this is speculation, but I'm just putting that out there as a possibility. We're assuming what the media is putting out there is true, which it's most likely inaccurate on some level and not the whole story.

[carlfense]

Here you go Carl, http://news.yahoo.com/turmoil-tear-gas-way-hope-ferguson-053336976.html

 

That's why I put burglary/robbery, check the photos out on the side of the article if you'd like. Certaintly doesn't paint a good picture for Brown now does it?

How do you get to burglary?

 

Also this seems like an odd angle for someone who was just talking about "innocent until proven guilty."

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

Here you go Carl, http://news.yahoo.com/turmoil-tear-gas-way-hope-ferguson-053336976.html

 

That's why I put burglary/robbery, check the photos out on the side of the article if you'd like. Certaintly doesn't paint a good picture for Brown now does it?

How do you get to burglary?

 

Also this seems like an odd angle for someone who was just talking about "innocent until proven guilty."

 

I couldn't remember if they said burglary or robbery so I put burglary/robbery. You're nitpicking to try and get a point across. Robbery is just as bad if not worse than burglary depending on the levels. Just taking the same angle towards Brown as you are towards the officer, not cool is it? Hard to dispute those photos with, what appears to be, the cigars in his hand and him putting his hand on the throat area of the individual in the photos and either grabbing him or pushing him. So this isn't some ploy by the police to try and get the heat off of them some, there are actual photos of the robbery. I wonder if there is an in car video camera that will be released later that shows some of this situation unfolding?

[Abdullah the Butcher]

 

 

Here you go Carl, http://news.yahoo.com/turmoil-tear-gas-way-hope-ferguson-053336976.html

 

That's why I put burglary/robbery, check the photos out on the side of the article if you'd like. Certaintly doesn't paint a good picture for Brown now does it?

 

How do you get to burglary?

Also this seems like an odd angle for someone who was just talking about "innocent until proven guilty."

I couldn't remember if they said burglary or robbery so I put burglary/robbery. You're nitpicking to try and get a point across. Robbery is just as bad if not worse than burglary depending on the levels. Just taking the same angle towards Brown as you are towards the officer, not cool is it? Hard to dispute those photos with, what appears to be, the cigars in his hand and him putting his hand on the throat area of the individual in the photos and either grabbing him or pushing him. So this isn't some ploy by the police to try and get the heat off of them some, there are actual photos of the robbery. I wonder if there is an in car video camera that will be released later that shows some of this situation unfolding?

 

No the town doesn't have in car cameras.