Who Starts @ I-Back Next Season?

[Hedley Lamarr]

Isn't Wilbon built like Abdullah? You'd think he'd have a chance going into next year.

 

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/2499034/highlights/111512397

Wilbon is the closest thing to Abdullah on our roster. Great lateral quickness and gets to top speed quick

[T_O_Bull]

Would like to see Newby or Taylor at I-back and Cross playing full-bak.

T_O_B

[Nuke LaLoosh]

I like newby, but in reality it's fair game. The new coaches haven't really seen any of them close up and we have an idea of what style of offense hcmr runs, but not for sure. He build his offense with what players he has around him.

[bruzer1053]

Taylor FTW

[jmfb]

For those saying ANYONE should move to Fullback DONT understand the offense Riley knows and believes in

 

The one back Pro style offense that Riley loves doesn't use a fullback like a Janovich or someone who looks like Cross

 

Lead blockers? Everything they run is pretty much inside zone, outside zone and stretch- none of those plays are anything Cross runs well

Some guys can run zone, some can't it's MUCH harder than it looks even with great coaching

[jmfb]

 

For those saying ANYONE should move to Fullback DONT understand the offense Riley knows and believes in

 

The one back Pro style offense that Riley loves doesn't use a fullback like a Janovich or someone who looks like Cross

 

Lead blockers? Everything they run is pretty much inside zone, outside zone and stretch- none of those plays are anything Cross runs well

Some guys can run zone, some can't it's MUCH harder than it looks even with great coaching

 

 

Cross runs the inside zone just fine. It's the outside zone that Abdullah runs that he's not good at.

 

We haven't given Cross a fair shake running plays that benefit his running style. I anticipate lots of surprised people next year.

 

Not true at all

Zone is zone, requires exact same skill set, just inside and outside use a different set of monuments

Some kids just never get it, its NOT the easiest thing to do- has very little to do with distance

 

Lots of kids who are used to running power, iso or sweep and used to just cutting off a lead block- have a real problem with zone. Cross is one of these kids

THATS why you see him running power more often than zone and when he runs zone or stretch he really struggles

[In the Deed the Glory]

 

 

For those saying ANYONE should move to Fullback DONT understand the offense Riley knows and believes in

 

The one back Pro style offense that Riley loves doesn't use a fullback like a Janovich or someone who looks like Cross

 

Lead blockers? Everything they run is pretty much inside zone, outside zone and stretch- none of those plays are anything Cross runs well

Some guys can run zone, some can't it's MUCH harder than it looks even with great coaching

 

 

Cross runs the inside zone just fine. It's the outside zone that Abdullah runs that he's not good at.

 

We haven't given Cross a fair shake running plays that benefit his running style. I anticipate lots of surprised people next year.

 

Not true at all

Zone is zone, requires exact same skill set, just inside and outside use a different set of monuments

Some kids just never get it, its NOT the easiest thing to do- has very little to do with distance

 

Lots of kids who are used to running power, iso or sweep and used to just cutting off a lead block- have a real problem with zone. Cross is one of these kids

THATS why you see him running power more often than zone and when he runs zone or stretch he really struggles

 

 

This. It isn't even an inside zone play, it is power when Cross is in. We just block it so badly it is hard to tell sometimes. When we did, that was the huge holes he had to run through.

[Hayseed]

Zone blocking is when the linemen stand side by side after the ball is snapped and commence to sashaying around and doing jazz hands like they're reenacting 'Guys and Dolls'. If I remember right , it first appeared in Nebraska under Callahan with the West Coast offense.

[Saunders]

 

 

 

For those saying ANYONE should move to Fullback DONT understand the offense Riley knows and believes in

 

The one back Pro style offense that Riley loves doesn't use a fullback like a Janovich or someone who looks like Cross

 

Lead blockers? Everything they run is pretty much inside zone, outside zone and stretch- none of those plays are anything Cross runs well

Some guys can run zone, some can't it's MUCH harder than it looks even with great coaching

 

 

Cross runs the inside zone just fine. It's the outside zone that Abdullah runs that he's not good at.

 

We haven't given Cross a fair shake running plays that benefit his running style. I anticipate lots of surprised people next year.

 

Not true at all

Zone is zone, requires exact same skill set, just inside and outside use a different set of monuments

Some kids just never get it, its NOT the easiest thing to do- has very little to do with distance

 

Lots of kids who are used to running power, iso or sweep and used to just cutting off a lead block- have a real problem with zone. Cross is one of these kids

THATS why you see him running power more often than zone and when he runs zone or stretch he really struggles

 

 

 

If you think an outside zone read is the same as the inside zone read, then I think we're done here...

 

Pretty sure he's talking zone blocking, note a zone reed/veer/inverted veer play...

[In the Deed the Glory]

I agree in 2013 we were different in our scheme. We ran a lot of power for Cross this year, and that is where he is successful. You won't get any argument from me about him being misused. If you want to run him wide, can't run zone. Need off tackle with a TE. Put players in a position to succeed.

[GoBigRedHead]

Pretty surprised at the lack of votes for our scout team MVP Wilbon. He or Taylor are going to be our best backs by the end of the year. I think Newby will start game one but will end up in more of a utility role lining up on the outside a lot and moving around the field. The reviews on Wilbon are impressive...feel like he is going to be a thousand yard rusher next year.

[jmfb]

 

 

 

 

 

For those saying ANYONE should move to Fullback DONT understand the offense Riley knows and believes in

 

The one back Pro style offense that Riley loves doesn't use a fullback like a Janovich or someone who looks like Cross

 

Lead blockers? Everything they run is pretty much inside zone, outside zone and stretch- none of those plays are anything Cross runs well

Some guys can run zone, some can't it's MUCH harder than it looks even with great coaching

 

 

Cross runs the inside zone just fine. It's the outside zone that Abdullah runs that he's not good at.

 

We haven't given Cross a fair shake running plays that benefit his running style. I anticipate lots of surprised people next year.

 

Not true at all

Zone is zone, requires exact same skill set, just inside and outside use a different set of monuments

Some kids just never get it, its NOT the easiest thing to do- has very little to do with distance

 

Lots of kids who are used to running power, iso or sweep and used to just cutting off a lead block- have a real problem with zone. Cross is one of these kids

THATS why you see him running power more often than zone and when he runs zone or stretch he really struggles

 

 

 

If you think an outside zone read is the same as the inside zone read, then I think we're done here...

 

Pretty sure he's talking zone blocking, note a zone reed/veer/inverted veer play...

 

 

I'm pretty sure he wasn't talking about Cross running zone blocking in his original statement...

 

The inside zone read develops faster as a hole will open up right away. The cut the RB makes is not a hard cut and relies on the RB to read the linebacker trying to plug the hole. If the OL drops off their initial block soon enough, they then kick out the linebacker or safety (depending on the defensive set) allowing the RB to run free. If you look at EVERY SINGLE 100 YARD GAME BY CROSS...we ran this inside zone read to him and he broke it big. Remember Wyoming 2013? Remember MSU 2013? Those are perfect examples of him running inside on the zone read perfectly. He was built to run like that....he's not as gifted laterally as our shifty smaller backs.

 

Now, he tried to run the outside zone read numerous times this year but due to craptastic play calling times by Tim Beck (remember TB calling it on the 1ft line?) and craptastic blocking by our line it doesn't work well. The outside zone read doesn't have a hole open right away so you have to laterally string it out and wait for the hole to open up. Imani does not have a cut like Abdullah does running that and thus won't run it very well. Give him an inside zone read and he'll eat people's lunch. Run a counter inside and he'll make people pay for it too.

 

 

If there is one thing I know it is this: Mike Riley will put plays in to fit our skilled players. Imani is a skilled player and he's been vastly underutilized and subsequently, REALLY under-appreciated by a lot of fans and posters here on this board. I look for him to have a breakout year next year and make a lot of people eat crow.

 

As I said the skills required to run a zone running play by a RB are the same, regardless if it is Inside or outside zone. Both plays require the same skill set, a skill set Cross doesn't have. A Pro offense as I stated in the post - its what Riley has always run and believes in runs the inside zone, outside zone and stretch, I seriously doubt we see any zone read- he has never run it and it isn't something guys who run WCO or Pro style run, it's not a simple bolt on.

 

To say that a RB is reading a LB on zone simply isn't how it's taught.

 

TO help you understand what a zone running play is, what the landmarks and reads are- look here. For the RB it's always a down lineman:

 

http://ravensall-22.blogspot.com/2014/08/running-back-vision-in-zone-blocking.html

 

coachgrabowski.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/izfundamentalsjcu.ppt

 

The underlying skills needed to run IZ and OZ is the ability to read quickly, put a foot in the ground and accelerate quickly, it requires patience,

a good burst and the ability to change direction based on the landmark read. That's why AA's jump cuts are so effective when running zone.

 

Cross is effective on Power and Iso type plays where he is running straight ahead or towards the LOS and making a less dramatic cut, usually after he has gained a head of steam.

Ask a RB coach how easy it is to train a kid who hasn't run zone to run zone- some simply cant do it well, no matter how good the coaching

That's part of the reasons why not all 2,000 yard rushers get DI deals.

Last year a kid who lead the State of Florida 8A- largest class in rushing with over 2,000 yards, player of the year with good grades got ZERO DI offers and

it playing for Ferris State this year. He was all power- zero zone.

[Count 'Bility]

While you guys argue about x's and o's and IZ and OZ, you forget the real issue with Cross. The guy is psychologically destroyed from trying to be something hes not for 3 years. Hes a thumper back. Now theres nothing wrong with that. There coulda been a tremendous role for him in Beck's multiplood offense. But everytime Cross was in hes put in situations that didnt play to Imani's strengths. Stretch. Outside zone. Sweeps. Read options. It was ridiculous. Then Beck wod say dumbass sh#t like "we expect Imani to come in and be able to execute the samethings ameerdoes". Thats garbage. And just microcosm of how clueless this staff was. Imani is not capable of doing what Ameer does. And instead of talking to the guy and explaing what his role should be, ges wasted the better part of three years trying to be something he isnt. A slasher. He runs upright. He runs tentative. And very seldom if ever does he get downhill on guys.

 

Its so much more mental with Imani. Hopefully this staff can save him and get him to realize what he could be great at cuz he appears pretty confused right now. And thats dissappointing. Like a lot of other talents wasted over the past 11 years.

[Hedley Lamarr]

I think you 2 aren't even talking about the same thing. One is talking about a simple inside vs outside run that uses zone blocking AKA the line is feeling where to block. The other is arguing that zone reads are different inside and outside.

 

Both of you guys are right you just aren't arguing about the same thing fwiw

[jmfb]

Blitzfirst has a reading comprehension issue

I said inside and outside zone- There is no QB read on an inside zone or outside zone running play

Riley will NEVER run any zone read- he has always been a pro style one back WCO style guy

Read up on that offense- not zone read

Teaching Zone to a downhill thumper type back like IC- isn't easy and sometimes they never get it

That's one reason why hes so much more successful running simple downhill power, isolation and sometimes even wham style plays when the FB or H back is formationed away