The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

[strigori]

I'm endlessly amazed how well the conservative media discussion tactics have so heavily permeated things. Find an exception, and claim that the issue does not exist. There is a difference between what an individual does, and what an organization does. But when individuals continually, blindly, support an organization, in this case the GOP, they will be lumped in together. Everything I have said, holds true for the GOP talking points. We can just look at the stated stances of the Presidential candidates. And that I where I am having the discussion. With those that are making policy, support them, vote for them, and I'm going to assume your stances are the same.

 

Because your company is not being a greedy bastard, does not mean others are not. And the $10 an hour being a defense is more a point in my favor. Given that it is next to impossible to live on $10 an hour. For not believing my arguments, how about making a trip over to the Kansas thread. Lower taxes for businesses and the wealthy, and the financial gap for the state will be made up mostly from the middle class and poor by consumption taxes(Kansas even taxes food) But its damned good for the Koch Bros. And again, its not the mom and pop shop that is getting the ear on the policy makers. I have known good small business owners. But can you honestly tell me you trust anyone publicly traded? HP had an increased profit, and the former CEO now running for president, then proceeded to reward the workers for increasing profits, by laying off 30,000 people. Walmart expects large segments of their employees to be on governmental assistance, because its impossible to live on single digit dollars an hour.

 

Here is another article that hits pretty much every one of my points. Read it, its disturbing to say the least.

 

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/12/something_is_rotten_in_michigan_poisoned_water_supplied_dissolved_school_districts_and_a_massive_unraveling_of_american_democracy_partner/

 

 

 

One city neglected to inform its residents that its water supply was laced with cancerous chemicals. Another dissolved its public school district and replaced it with a charter school system, only to witness the for-profit management company it hired flee the scene after determining it couldn’t turn a profit. Numerous cities and school districts in the state are now run by single, state-appointed technocrats, as permitted under an emergency financial manager law pushed through by Rick Snyder, Michigan’s austerity-promoting governor. This legislation not only strips residents of their local voting rights, but gives Snyder’s appointee the power to do just about anything, including dissolving the city itself — all (no matter how disastrous) in the name of “fiscal responsibility.”

 

 

And maybe your church group and your family are doing good things. But the large segments that endlessly try to legislate their religion are a problem. And comparing to "radical liberals" is a ridiculous argument. There are not "radical liberal" groups with millions of members, and a giant voting block.

 

But clearly I must be delusional by simply paying attention to the world larger than my day to day life. Just because things might be going good for you, does not mean that things are going well for millions of others in this country. Just because these issues are alien to your echo chamber does not mean they are not real issues.

[zoogs]

I would guess the 50-person small business is the subject of very little controversy. You guys are vital to the economy and we want more of you

[BigRedBuster]

I'm endlessly amazed how well the conservative media discussion tactics have so heavily permeated things. Find an exception, and claim that the issue does not exist. There is a difference between what an individual does, and what an organization does. But when individuals continually, blindly, support an organization, in this case the GOP, they will be lumped in together. Everything I have said, holds true for the GOP talking points. We can just look at the stated stances of the Presidential candidates. And that I where I am having the discussion. With those that are making policy, support them, vote for them, and I'm going to assume your stances are the same.

 

Because your company is not being a greedy bastard, does not mean others are not. And the $10 an hour being a defense is more a point in my favor. Given that it is next to impossible to live on $10 an hour. For not believing my arguments, how about making a trip over to the Kansas thread. Lower taxes for businesses and the wealthy, and the financial gap for the state will be made up mostly from the middle class and poor by consumption taxes(Kansas even taxes food) But its damned good for the Koch Bros. And again, its not the mom and pop shop that is getting the ear on the policy makers. I have known good small business owners. But can you honestly tell me you trust anyone publicly traded? HP had an increased profit, and the former CEO now running for president, then proceeded to reward the workers for increasing profits, by laying off 30,000 people. Walmart expects large segments of their employees to be on governmental assistance, because its impossible to live on single digit dollars an hour.

 

Here is another article that hits pretty much every one of my points. Read it, its disturbing to say the least.

 

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/12/something_is_rotten_in_michigan_poisoned_water_supplied_dissolved_school_districts_and_a_massive_unraveling_of_american_democracy_partner/

 

 

 

One city neglected to inform its residents that its water supply was laced with cancerous chemicals. Another dissolved its public school district and replaced it with a charter school system, only to witness the for-profit management company it hired flee the scene after determining it couldn’t turn a profit. Numerous cities and school districts in the state are now run by single, state-appointed technocrats, as permitted under an emergency financial manager law pushed through by Rick Snyder, Michigan’s austerity-promoting governor. This legislation not only strips residents of their local voting rights, but gives Snyder’s appointee the power to do just about anything, including dissolving the city itself — all (no matter how disastrous) in the name of “fiscal responsibility.”

 

 

And maybe your church group and your family are doing good things. But the large segments that endlessly try to legislate their religion are a problem. And comparing to "radical liberals" is a ridiculous argument. There are not "radical liberal" groups with millions of members, and a giant voting block.

 

But clearly I must be delusional by simply paying attention to the world larger than my day to day life. Just because things might be going good for you, does not mean that things are going well for millions of others in this country. Just because these issues are alien to your echo chamber does not mean they are not real issues.

There is something really funny about those two sentences.

[BigRedBuster]

I would guess the 50-person small business is the subject of very little controversy. You guys are vital to the economy and we want more of you

Well, when the comment is made bout "many to most businesses and business owners"....your post really doesn't apply.

 

According to the census.....LINK

 

There are 7,601,169 firms in the US with a payroll. Of those, 6,054,454 have less than 100 employees.

 

So....it is obvious that Strigori's hatred for businesses and business owners goes way down to fairly small companies.

[zoogs]

To be fair, I'm sure practices of those businesses do fall across the spectrum. But in terms of impact -- employees or otherwise -- the relatively fewer large and mega-sized corporations have a real lion's share of the interaction and the impact, don't they? As well as the influence. And they by and large follow whatever their boards/bottom line/lawyer teams/laws(?) dictate.

 

I think whenever we talk about regulation, we're talking about reigning in these guys. It's not their fault they are bottom line, but their behavior is a byproduct of their environment. Similar to sports leagues for example, teams do things to win if the rules say they can. It's up to the governing bodies such as the NCAA to create and maintain a fair situation for everybody.

[BigRedBuster]

To be fair, I'm sure practices of those businesses do fall across the spectrum. But in terms of impact -- employees or otherwise -- the relatively fewer large and mega-sized corporations have a real lion's share of the interaction and the impact, don't they? As well as the influence. And they by and large follow whatever their boards/bottom line/lawyer teams/laws(?) dictate.

 

I think whenever we talk about regulation, we're talking about reigning in these guys. It's not their fault they are bottom line, but their behavior is a byproduct of their environment. Similar to sports leagues for example, teams do things to win if the rules say they can. It's up to the governing bodies such as the NCAA to create and maintain a fair situation for everybody.

Well, as far as employment goes, it depends on what you consider "mega sized corporations". From the link above, there are 120,903,551 employees at these companies. Of those, 59,693,991 (roughly half) are at firms of less than 100 employees. I wouldn't call those "mega sized corporations". Once you get to over 5,000 employees (where I would start considering a company a "mega sized corporation") only about 33% of the employment is in those companies.

 

Now, as far as environmental impacts....hmmm...that could be debated and I could agree the "mega" corporations probably have individually more impact.

 

As far as influence, individually...again...large has more voice.

 

But.....once again....Strigori's hatred goes way beyond what we are talking about here.

[NUinID]

I'm endlessly amazed how well the conservative media discussion tactics have so heavily permeated things. Find an exception, and claim that the issue does not exist. There is a difference between what an individual does, and what an organization does. But when individuals continually, blindly, support an organization, in this case the GOP, they will be lumped in together. Everything I have said, holds true for the GOP talking points. We can just look at the stated stances of the Presidential candidates. And that I where I am having the discussion. With those that are making policy, support them, vote for them, and I'm going to assume your stances are the same.

 

Because your company is not being a greedy bastard, does not mean others are not. And the $10 an hour being a defense is more a point in my favor. Given that it is next to impossible to live on $10 an hour. For not believing my arguments, how about making a trip over to the Kansas thread. Lower taxes for businesses and the wealthy, and the financial gap for the state will be made up mostly from the middle class and poor by consumption taxes(Kansas even taxes food) But its damned good for the Koch Bros. And again, its not the mom and pop shop that is getting the ear on the policy makers. I have known good small business owners. But can you honestly tell me you trust anyone publicly traded? HP had an increased profit, and the former CEO now running for president, then proceeded to reward the workers for increasing profits, by laying off 30,000 people. Walmart expects large segments of their employees to be on governmental assistance, because its impossible to live on single digit dollars an hour.

 

Here is another article that hits pretty much every one of my points. Read it, its disturbing to say the least.

 

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/12/something_is_rotten_in_michigan_poisoned_water_supplied_dissolved_school_districts_and_a_massive_unraveling_of_american_democracy_partner/

 

 

 

One city neglected to inform its residents that its water supply was laced with cancerous chemicals. Another dissolved its public school district and replaced it with a charter school system, only to witness the for-profit management company it hired flee the scene after determining it couldn’t turn a profit. Numerous cities and school districts in the state are now run by single, state-appointed technocrats, as permitted under an emergency financial manager law pushed through by Rick Snyder, Michigan’s austerity-promoting governor. This legislation not only strips residents of their local voting rights, but gives Snyder’s appointee the power to do just about anything, including dissolving the city itself — all (no matter how disastrous) in the name of “fiscal responsibility.”

 

 

And maybe your church group and your family are doing good things. But the large segments that endlessly try to legislate their religion are a problem. And comparing to "radical liberals" is a ridiculous argument. There are not "radical liberal" groups with millions of members, and a giant voting block.

 

But clearly I must be delusional by simply paying attention to the world larger than my day to day life. Just because things might be going good for you, does not mean that things are going well for millions of others in this country. Just because these issues are alien to your echo chamber does not mean they are not real issues.

You make absolutely no sense. Please tell me where in my statement it says anything about conservative media or that I claim the issue doesn't exist. You are painting every person that owns a business in the same light. I gave myself and my business as an example that what you say is not always true. Again, you speak about things that you know nothing or very little about.

[Mavric]

Not familiar enough with everyone to know how accurate this is but it's kind of interesting: