Did the racist Sooner student deserve to get expelled?

[NUance]

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Report: University of Oklahoma student apologizes for racist chant

"I am deeply sorry for what I did Saturday night," Parker Rice said in the Dallas Morning News.

/ these are from a post by suh_fan93 in a different thread. Thanks suh_fan93. :

[NUance]

I can see both sides of the argument. On the one hand, the racist frat kid gave the whole University a black eye with his behavior. And it can't be undone. People will talk about this stunt for years to come whenever the topic of racism comes up. The punishment of getting kicked out of OU pales in comparison with the damage he did to the University of Oklahoma. On the other hand, expulsion? Really? It was just a song. A bawdy, drunken, ignorant, racist song. Words only. No one got injured. There was no property damage. So expulsion seems a bit harsh. Doesn't freedom of speech exist at OU? Even for bad speech?

 

I'm leaning towards the latter. I think expulsion is a bit harsh. The racist frat kid should have been put on a short leash with some kind of probation. But not given the boot.

[ColoradoHusk]

Even if it was a drunken mistake, the kid deserved to be booted from the University. That type of behavior shouldn't be tolerated on any college campus.

[C N Red]

Do they deserve it? Probably. Should they have been? Not sure.

 

As much as I hate to say it, I think freedom of speech should be respected. Now I get that this really isn't "speech", but a song to specifically degrade. But can a public institution keep someone from going to it's college, for instance, a known and open white supremacist? It's a tricky line. And I would guess if one of the students hires a lawyer and sues the University that they will have a pretty good case for whatever hootnanny thing they accuse the University of.

[VectorVictor]

I don't know if expulsion was the answer, but I believe the student body/council should have had a say in the punishment, to say the least.

[QMany]

I think he should have been expelled, and possibly others singing it too.

 

It is troubling to think about how many young men in that fraternity over the years have sung that chant. One young man (scapegoat) sure as hell didn't make it up on the spot by himself.

[knapplc]

Freedom of speech doesn't mean speech is free from consequences.

[C N Red]

Freedom of speech doesn't mean speech is free from consequences.

Isn't that the very reason it's in the constitution. I'm talking from a legal aspect. Yes it will have consequences outside of the courts on personal levels, but as a public institution as OU is, I would find it hard to believe that the student couldn't win a legal battle of sorts. Any lawyers on the board help out??

[Bigred_inSD]

1. Yes he should of been expelled, if you aren't going to be affiliated with the university you have to conduct yourself as not a complete moron.

 

2. He isn't sorry in the slightest, He's sorry he got caught and got kicked out of school and got caught.

 

3. Let him come back to OU if he is willing to be the replacement for the blocking sled

[knapplc]

 

Freedom of speech doesn't mean speech is free from consequences.

Isn't that the very reason it's in the constitution. I'm talking from a legal aspect. Yes it will have consequences outside of the courts on personal levels, but as a public institution as OU is, I would find it hard to believe that the student couldn't win a legal battle of sorts. Any lawyers on the board help out??

 

 

No. You can't, for example, yell "fire!" in a crowded theater without consequences. If you do, and someone is injured as a result of your actions, you can be prosecuted.

 

In much the same way, this person's actions injured the university. You can take your pick of how they were injured - reputation, loss of students enrollment... whatever. They could come up with a list if they chose. That damage is real, and has consequences. This idiot is suffering those consequences.

 

The First Amendment does not give us carte blanche to say anything we want, wherever we want, however we want, without consequences. There are limits to everything.

[teachercd]

 

 

Freedom of speech doesn't mean speech is free from consequences.

Isn't that the very reason it's in the constitution. I'm talking from a legal aspect. Yes it will have consequences outside of the courts on personal levels, but as a public institution as OU is, I would find it hard to believe that the student couldn't win a legal battle of sorts. Any lawyers on the board help out??

 

 

No. You can't, for example, yell "fire!" in a crowded theater without consequences. If you do, and someone is injured as a result of your actions, you can be prosecuted.

 

In much the same way, this person's actions injured the university. You can take your pick of how they were injured - reputation, loss of students enrollment... whatever. They could come up with a list if they chose. That damage is real, and has consequences. This idiot is suffering those consequences.

 

The First Amendment does not give us carte blanche to say anything we want, wherever we want, however we want, without consequences. There are limits to everything.

 

Mav is correct...

[QMany]

 

Freedom of speech doesn't mean speech is free from consequences.

Isn't that the very reason it's in the constitution. I'm talking from a legal aspect. Yes it will have consequences outside of the courts on personal levels, but as a public institution as OU is, I would find it hard to believe that the student couldn't win a legal battle of sorts. Any lawyers on the board help out??

Could he make a colorable argument that this "hate speech" might be protected? Yes.

[knapplc]

 

 

Freedom of speech doesn't mean speech is free from consequences.

Isn't that the very reason it's in the constitution. I'm talking from a legal aspect. Yes it will have consequences outside of the courts on personal levels, but as a public institution as OU is, I would find it hard to believe that the student couldn't win a legal battle of sorts. Any lawyers on the board help out??

Could he make a colorable argument that this "hate speech" might be protected? Yes.

 

And the University's defense would be "we were harmed by his speech" and that would be the end of it.

 

It's not that he's not allowed to say it. He's facing the consequences of damaging someone for having said it.

[teachercd]

 

 

 

Freedom of speech doesn't mean speech is free from consequences.

Isn't that the very reason it's in the constitution. I'm talking from a legal aspect. Yes it will have consequences outside of the courts on personal levels, but as a public institution as OU is, I would find it hard to believe that the student couldn't win a legal battle of sorts. Any lawyers on the board help out??

Could he make a colorable argument that this "hate speech" might be protected? Yes.

 

And the University's defense would be "we were harmed by his speech" and that would be the end of it.

 

It's not that he's not allowed to say it. He's facing the consequences of damaging someone for having said it.

 

Yep! He/they are more than welcome to apply and attend other colleges/universities.

[QMany]

 

 

 

Freedom of speech doesn't mean speech is free from consequences.

Isn't that the very reason it's in the constitution. I'm talking from a legal aspect. Yes it will have consequences outside of the courts on personal levels, but as a public institution as OU is, I would find it hard to believe that the student couldn't win a legal battle of sorts. Any lawyers on the board help out??

Could he make a colorable argument that this "hate speech" might be protected? Yes.

And the University's defense would be "we were harmed by his speech" and that would be the end of it.

I don't think it is that simple.

 

No, it’s not constitutional for the University of Oklahoma to expel students for racist speech.

Eugene Volokh teaches free speech law, religious freedom law, church-state relations law, a First Amendment Amicus Brief Clinic, and tort law, at UCLA School of Law.