Secondary play...

[Mavric]

If you remove all the 40+ yard passes given up, that would reduce the yardage by approximately 320 total. (Approximately because I just used 55 yards as a proxy for the 50+ yard plays and 45 for the one play between 40 and 50 yards. Didn't go find the exact numbers.) That would reduce our per game average to 299.5 which would be #114 in the country.

 

If you remove all the 30+ yard passes given up, it would be approximately 425 fewer yards for an average of 273 yards per game which would make us #103 in the country.

 

The deep balls have been getting most of the publicity but they aren't really that much of the problem.

[knapplc]

That's good research, Mav. The only questions I would have to follow up are, are we giving QBs more time in the pocket than in years past, or compared to other D1A teams, etc?

 

Maybe I'm just being Pollyannaish, but I refuse to believe that Daniel Davie & crew just got awful over the offseason. And they're in position on a lot of the completions, it seems (meaning, I haven't watched the games to double-check). There have been busted coverages in every game, but there have been several plays where the DB was on the receiver and just didn't make a play. No scheme teaches that, but again, I just can't believe that our guys suddenly suck.

 

One other thing I noted, and this is a bit of an aside in the instant conversation, but we're not covering the back out of the backfield. Several times against Southern Miss their QB missed their back, likely because he'd been hitting deep passes and didn't look over there. At least once in the second half, there wasn't a defender within 20 yards of their back. That's a LB issue, and the linebacker position is what it is this year. But teams are going to take advantage of that.

[NUinID]

Are we really that broken? It seemed like quite a few of the plays we've given up were pinpoint passes, or as fixable as the DB turning his head as the ball arrives. South Alabama threw several rainbows that dropped in perfectly, low-percentage passes that hit. In fact, I'd like to see how often a team has thrown a pass longer than 25 yards against us that wasn't completed. It's typically a low-percentage play, but I'm thinking our opponents have completed more than that, maybe more than 75% of the time.

 

We've seen some bad corner play, sure, but we've also seen some really accurate passing, too. Unusually so.

 

 

Or am I way off base here?

 

Yes and no, it has been poor coverage and accurate passing. It really hasn't been all game either. After the first quarter NU did a much better job against Miami. For the first three quarters they shut down S. Miss pretty well. In the second half against BYU other than 2 big passes they did basically nothing. The S. Alabama game was good passes dropped in on fairly decent coverage.

 

It really just needs to be evened out. The LB play in the S. Miss game hurt in the 4th quarter more than anything. Newby leaves the game. Weber stays in but tweeks his ankle. So the true freshman slides into the middle and misses on a few plays.

 

It really is a matter of putting four full quarters of football. Lunt is a good QB, but I am not sure they can match the talent at WR that S. Miss had with the couple of injuries that they have. They just need to play better for the whole game.

[Mavric]

 

Are we really that broken? It seemed like quite a few of the plays we've given up were pinpoint passes, or as fixable as the DB turning his head as the ball arrives. South Alabama threw several rainbows that dropped in perfectly, low-percentage passes that hit. In fact, I'd like to see how often a team has thrown a pass longer than 25 yards against us that wasn't completed. It's typically a low-percentage play, but I'm thinking our opponents have completed more than that, maybe more than 75% of the time.

 

We've seen some bad corner play, sure, but we've also seen some really accurate passing, too. Unusually so.

 

 

Or am I way off base here?

 

Yes and no, it has been poor coverage and accurate passing. It really hasn't been all game either. After the first quarter NU did a much better job against Miami. For the first three quarters they shut down S. Miss pretty well. In the second half against BYU other than 2 big passes they did basically nothing. The S. Alabama game was good passes dropped in on fairly decent coverage.

 

It really just needs to be evened out. The LB play in the S. Miss game hurt in the 4th quarter more than anything. Newby leaves the game. Weber stays in but tweeks his ankle. So the true freshman slides into the middle and misses on a few plays.

 

It really is a matter of putting four full quarters of football. Lunt is a good QB, but I am not sure they can match the talent at WR that S. Miss had with the couple of injuries that they have. They just need to play better for the whole game.

 

 

This all assumes that we're also facing an even distribution of the types of plays and attempts in all quarters. I don't believe that is the case.

[84HuskerLaw]

This staff has forgotten more about football coaching and particularly defensive schemes, alignments, coverages, etc. than nearly everyone on this board will ever know. They have been in coaching for several decades and have perhaps hundreds of years of combined experience and learning with many different teams, conferences, as well as two professional football leagues. I would think it would be obvious to most observers that the coaches have available certain players with given skills and know how (talent is the term used on this board for this combination). With their jobs and family fortunes on the line, we can surely presume they will use that talent the best way possible. These coaches WANT to win as badly as any of the fans and presumably the player similarly want badly to win. Perhaps we can all give the professionals at least the benefit of the doubt about knowing what they should do, want to do, and perhaps unfortunately can do about opponents and their play.

[NUinID]

 

 

Are we really that broken? It seemed like quite a few of the plays we've given up were pinpoint passes, or as fixable as the DB turning his head as the ball arrives. South Alabama threw several rainbows that dropped in perfectly, low-percentage passes that hit. In fact, I'd like to see how often a team has thrown a pass longer than 25 yards against us that wasn't completed. It's typically a low-percentage play, but I'm thinking our opponents have completed more than that, maybe more than 75% of the time.

 

We've seen some bad corner play, sure, but we've also seen some really accurate passing, too. Unusually so.

 

 

Or am I way off base here?

 

Yes and no, it has been poor coverage and accurate passing. It really hasn't been all game either. After the first quarter NU did a much better job against Miami. For the first three quarters they shut down S. Miss pretty well. In the second half against BYU other than 2 big passes they did basically nothing. The S. Alabama game was good passes dropped in on fairly decent coverage.

 

It really just needs to be evened out. The LB play in the S. Miss game hurt in the 4th quarter more than anything. Newby leaves the game. Weber stays in but tweeks his ankle. So the true freshman slides into the middle and misses on a few plays.

 

It really is a matter of putting four full quarters of football. Lunt is a good QB, but I am not sure they can match the talent at WR that S. Miss had with the couple of injuries that they have. They just need to play better for the whole game.

 

 

This all assumes that we're also facing an even distribution of the types of plays and attempts in all quarters. I don't believe that is the case.

 

 

I am not really trying to assume anything. S. Miss threw the ball more in the 4th than in the other three quarters. I have read your synopsis of why and am not disagreeing. S. Miss does like to throw the ball a lot though, so I expected them to do this. I do think LB play in 4th quarter was a factor also not just that they finally decided to throw the ball down the field. I mean come on they were down 27-7 going into the forth quarter. They got 20 points to make up quickly. I expect them to throw down field at that point not just try and dink and dunk it. It is not different than Nebraska starting to chuck the ball in the second half and most notably in the 4th quarter. Its what you have to do.

 

My other observations I think are fairly accurate. NU did adjust and shut down BYU fairly well in the second half. They did do better defending Miami's passing game.

[Mavric]

That's good research, Mav. The only questions I would have to follow up are, are we giving QBs more time in the pocket than in years past, or compared to other D1A teams, etc?

 

Maybe I'm just being Pollyannaish, but I refuse to believe that Daniel Davie & crew just got awful over the offseason. And they're in position on a lot of the completions, it seems (meaning, I haven't watched the games to double-check). There have been busted coverages in every game, but there have been several plays where the DB was on the receiver and just didn't make a play. No scheme teaches that, but again, I just can't believe that our guys suddenly suck.

 

One other thing I noted, and this is a bit of an aside in the instant conversation, but we're not covering the back out of the backfield. Several times against Southern Miss their QB missed their back, likely because he'd been hitting deep passes and didn't look over there. At least once in the second half, there wasn't a defender within 20 yards of their back. That's a LB issue, and the linebacker position is what it is this year. But teams are going to take advantage of that.

 

I agree that it would be interesting to know how much time opposing QBs are getting. I've never seen any stats on that.

 

Particularly in the Miami game, I don't think much can be attributed to Kaaya having extra time to throw. There were a few plays but for the most part he was getting the ball out of his hands pretty quickly. On one of the plays where Davie was beaten, Dedrick Young was unblocked on a blitz and couldn't get to Kaaya in time. And we got some better pressure against Miami than many gave us credit for. Not a lot of sacks but Kaaya was having to move around and couldn't hold the ball for long. Things that don't show up in the stats.

 

I definitely agree with your second paragraph. Most of the time we are there to make the tackle right after they catch the ball. We're not that far off but at the same time it's hard to do much better. You'd like to knock some of the passes away but you have to do that without making contact so it's not as easy as some make it out to be. To me, it's more of a problem with the odds. We are basically playing man-to-man all over the field. Even if three or four guys have pretty good coverage, it only takes one guy getting beat to give up the play. It's I don't think it's very likely that we're going to have that many guys trying to cover anywhere the receiver goes on the field without someone getting beat. That's just asking too much of too many guys on almost every play.

[BigRedBuster]

Here is my feelings on pass defense.

 

Obviously, a good pass rush helps the DBs so they don't have to cover very long. The opposite is true also in that if the DBs are good at covering, it gives the DLs time to get to the QB. The worst of the situation is what we have now. The QBs are being able to get the ball out quickly so the DL doesn't have time to get to the QB....and they are completing the passes.

 

Without being able to see the entire field on TV, it seems to me that we have committed more players (safeties) to run protection so it leaves the WRs able to read easily what the CBs are doing and can adjust their route to accommodate getting open quickly. We see this in the quick slant routes that have been successful for TDs in the red zone.

 

Well...we are stopping the run. That's great.

 

BUT, somehow we have got to give the CBs help. To me, this has to be designed in a way that disguises exactly what the safety is going to do. Is he helping in pass coverage or run coverage? Mix it up. This is where people who make a lot more than me in the football world comes in.

 

For the last 3-5 years we have gone over board to stop the pass and have gotten burned by the run easily. NOW, (it seems) we have gone over board to stop the run and are getting burned by the pass. There has to be a happy medium somewhere.

[Mavric]

My other observations I think are fairly accurate. NU did adjust and shut down BYU fairly well in the second half. They did do better defending Miami's passing game.

I'm not trying to pick on you but I've seen several people talk about the adjustments in the second half against BYU. What - specifically - did you or anyone else see as an adjustment?

 

My guess is "we made adjustments" basically means "we didn't give up as many points/yards." BYU was 18/26 (69%) for 240 yards in the first half and 10/20 (50%) for 139 yards in the second half (a lot obviously being on the last play) so the stats were definitely better. But that doesn't mean we did much different. Perhaps we made a few more plays or perhaps they didn't run the same kind of plays.

 

That's an honest question. I didn't really notice anything that we did differently but perhaps someone did. However, considering what I saw during the first half of the BYU game is almost exactly what I've seen in the three games since, either we really didn't make any adjustments or for some reason we went away from the adjustments that worked.

[NUinID]

 

My other observations I think are fairly accurate. NU did adjust and shut down BYU fairly well in the second half. They did do better defending Miami's passing game.

I'm not trying to pick on you but I've seen several people talk about the adjustments in the second half against BYU. What - specifically - did you or anyone else see as an adjustment?

 

My guess is "we made adjustments" basically means "we didn't give up as many points/yards." BYU was 18/26 (69%) for 240 yards in the first half and 10/20 (50%) for 139 yards in the second half (a lot obviously being on the last play) so the stats were definitely better. But that doesn't mean we did much different. Perhaps we made a few more plays or perhaps they didn't run the same kind of plays.

 

That's an honest question. I didn't really notice anything that we did differently but perhaps someone did. However, considering what I saw during the first half of the BYU game is almost exactly what I've seen in the three games since, either we really didn't make any adjustments or for some reason we went away from the adjustments that worked.

 

 

OK, they didn't make any adjustments, they just played better. Does that make you feel better? The adjustments I saw had more to do with pass rush and how they were doing it as apposed to anything in the secondary. The pressure was better.

[Mavric]

 

 

My other observations I think are fairly accurate. NU did adjust and shut down BYU fairly well in the second half. They did do better defending Miami's passing game.

I'm not trying to pick on you but I've seen several people talk about the adjustments in the second half against BYU. What - specifically - did you or anyone else see as an adjustment?

 

My guess is "we made adjustments" basically means "we didn't give up as many points/yards." BYU was 18/26 (69%) for 240 yards in the first half and 10/20 (50%) for 139 yards in the second half (a lot obviously being on the last play) so the stats were definitely better. But that doesn't mean we did much different. Perhaps we made a few more plays or perhaps they didn't run the same kind of plays.

 

That's an honest question. I didn't really notice anything that we did differently but perhaps someone did. However, considering what I saw during the first half of the BYU game is almost exactly what I've seen in the three games since, either we really didn't make any adjustments or for some reason we went away from the adjustments that worked.

 

 

OK, they didn't make any adjustments, they just played better. Does that make you feel better? The adjustments I saw had more to do with pass rush and how they were doing it as apposed to anything in the secondary. The pressure was better.

 

 

I don't know if we did or not. That's why I asked the question. I've heard people talk about adjustments but I've yet to see anyone actually say what they were.

 

It doesn't make me feel better. I just wonder if people like to make themselves feel better by saying we must have made adjustments.

[NUinID]

 

 

 

My other observations I think are fairly accurate. NU did adjust and shut down BYU fairly well in the second half. They did do better defending Miami's passing game.

I'm not trying to pick on you but I've seen several people talk about the adjustments in the second half against BYU. What - specifically - did you or anyone else see as an adjustment?

 

My guess is "we made adjustments" basically means "we didn't give up as many points/yards." BYU was 18/26 (69%) for 240 yards in the first half and 10/20 (50%) for 139 yards in the second half (a lot obviously being on the last play) so the stats were definitely better. But that doesn't mean we did much different. Perhaps we made a few more plays or perhaps they didn't run the same kind of plays.

 

That's an honest question. I didn't really notice anything that we did differently but perhaps someone did. However, considering what I saw during the first half of the BYU game is almost exactly what I've seen in the three games since, either we really didn't make any adjustments or for some reason we went away from the adjustments that worked.

 

 

OK, they didn't make any adjustments, they just played better. Does that make you feel better? The adjustments I saw had more to do with pass rush and how they were doing it as apposed to anything in the secondary. The pressure was better.

 

 

I don't know if we did or not. That's why I asked the question. I've heard people talk about adjustments but I've yet to see anyone actually say what they were.

 

It doesn't make me feel better. I just wonder if people like to make themselves feel better by saying we must have made adjustments.

 

 

I was at the game, I haven't watched the whole game since. The were pretty passive on their rush in the first half it was more of a contain to keep Hill in the pocket. This wasn't working, it got more aggressive in the second half they brought 5 a little more often. The twisted a little more, they just mixed it up a little more.

 

I thought the rush was decent in the second half. They chased them into more bad throws and Hill didn't play much.

 

Adjustments don't have to be anything super visible to fans, you know this. Especially if you do something a little different in the secondary. One or two little things can really change things.

[Guy Chamberlin]

The good news, and I'm not kidding at all, is that our defense can't get much worse.

 

So I expect it to get better.

 

We will learn pretty much nothing this week because we're playing Illinois.

 

But in two weeks we will play the overrated Joel Stave and I predict Wisconsin will not have its way with us.

[Enhance]

 

My other observations I think are fairly accurate. NU did adjust and shut down BYU fairly well in the second half. They did do better defending Miami's passing game.

I'm not trying to pick on you but I've seen several people talk about the adjustments in the second half against BYU. What - specifically - did you or anyone else see as an adjustment?

 

My guess is "we made adjustments" basically means "we didn't give up as many points/yards." BYU was 18/26 (69%) for 240 yards in the first half and 10/20 (50%) for 139 yards in the second half (a lot obviously being on the last play) so the stats were definitely better. But that doesn't mean we did much different. Perhaps we made a few more plays or perhaps they didn't run the same kind of plays.

 

That's an honest question. I didn't really notice anything that we did differently but perhaps someone did. However, considering what I saw during the first half of the BYU game is almost exactly what I've seen in the three games since, either we really didn't make any adjustments or for some reason we went away from the adjustments that worked.

 

I have a general question and not necessarily related to the BYU game - are you assuming because you personally can't see certain changes that the team in turn isn't making any? Consequentially, do you consider yourself well-versed in defensive play at the collegiate level?

 

I'm truthfully not asking those questions to be rude, demeaning or illicit a negative response. I'm asking because I see some small adjustments they're making, like you, but I also know that (personally) I really probably don't know 1/10 of what a guy like Banker does. So, if you have significantly more defensive schematic knowledge than the rest of us, then I'm not sure you're going to get anyone to answer your questions about what the team is doing differently.

 

To me, this is one of those things where I just trust the coaches to do the best they can. At this point they're not going to make wholesale schematic changes. You could argue 'well, they're the worst in the country, so what does it matter?' Well, it still matters. Trying to fix themselves within the gameplan and scheme at least gives them a blueprint they're familiar with. I'm not saying Banker is perfect nor that he has all the answers, but, I do believe he's probably tried a ton of different things that the average fan, or even above average fan, may not notice. And just because we don't see them doesn't mean they aren't trying.

 

So, hopefully that explains why I asked you that question. There's no point for me to personally engage you in the what-are-they-doing-different conversation if you know a hell of a lot more than I do. Because the only person that will satisfy your questions would be Banker. And if they say they've been trying to fix the problem... I gotta believe them.

[Mavric]

I'm sure there are some things going on that we don't notice. But I'm talking about big-picture scheme. Our DBs - and especially our safeties - would be doing something completely different in coverage if we were running any type of zone look. When all of our DBs (save one safety, usually)- and often our LBs - are locking on to one receiver and following them wherever they go on a pass route, we are obviously running a man-to-man scheme.

 

If the safeties were running a zone look, they would only cover whatever player came into their area. When a player left their area, they'd pass them off to the next defender. Corners may have similar coverage responsibilities on both man and zone looks because their "zone" would often include the outside receiver running deep. But it is most obvious with our Nickel and Dime defenders. They rarely have Safety help over the top. They have to cover man-to-man wherever they go. If you have any sort of zone scheme, your "inside" DBs would have help over the top so they can be more aggressive on the shorter routes.

 

Thus, it's pretty easy to tell what coverage we are running most of the time. I honestly haven't seen any coverage in any game that looked like overall zone coverage (except for the Hail Mary). We usually have one Safety playing zone - and some LBs depending on what their guy does - but the rest of our DB are all locked up man-to-man. This is not hard to tell from watching the replays.