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And people wonder why the US is so divided


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http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-psyched/201301/the-weapons-effect

http://web.augsburg.edu/~steblay/weaponfocusmetaanalysis.pdf

 

 

Sigh. A person set on taking as many people out as possible will go anywhere, especially if that person is hell-bent on self-destruction. I don't know why people think arming everywhere to the teeth is going to solve anything above and beyond the negative effects resultant of putting guns in schools. That's literally the epitome of square peg, round hole, and does nothing to address the real problem that underlies a majority of these mass shootings: mental health.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/10/why-more-americans-suffer-from-mental-disorders-than-anyone-else/246035/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/17/seven-facts-about-americas-mental-health-care-system/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/06/AR2005060601651.html

 

The second article might lead you to think that the US does an adequate job of taking care of mental health problems; we spend about 5.6% of our health care budget on mental health alone, putting us in the same respect as Italy and Australia, and ahead of France. So we'd be doing a good job of addressing mental health, if we only look at it on a surface level. Dig a little deeper, and when you realize that the US suffers from the most mental health diseases in the world, you should come to the conclusion that 5.6% is simply not enough. Moreso, access to mental health care is worse than any other type of health care. I'm willing to bet that a majority of these mass shooters don't come from privileged or even middle-class backgrounds, and when you talk about lack of access, it's usually the poor who suffer most.

 

You want to know why people outside the US think the US is full of morons? It's because after a mass shooting--and after a unprecedented spree of mass shootings--we immediately begin to take sides in a meaningless argument about how the President is dividing this country by being legitimately outraged that innocent people lost their lives in another senseless mass shooting, and that absolutely no movement has been made towards resolving a really apparent problem because all the NRA has to do is give $$ to people to willingly turn a blind eye to evidence.

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Laws are the answer. We need to make murder illegal, that will get people to stop killing people, people always respect and obey the laws....

 

 

Unfortunately this isn't the case. Long as there are people wishing to harm other people, they will harm other people. No laws or signs will stop them from doing evil.

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I'm sorry but it is getting to the point where it is nigh impossible to talk about gun control without being within a 48 hour window of a highly publicized gun crime. What happened is a tragedy. Let us prevent future tragedies by invoking some actual gun control in this country.

 

If Americans really wanted to make a difference and send a message, they should boycott any Hollywood producers that make movies involving any sort of gun violence, as well as the mainstream networks like CBS and others for having so many television shows depicting gun violence (like Criminal Minds, CSI, etc...) as well as X Box 360, Playstation, and video game makers for depicting violence. The gun is just the weapon of choice, but the criminal has to get the idea to commit the act from somewhere, and those ideas come from common entertainment mediums.

 

Here is a link to the top 30 Hollywood producers.

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/list/30-powerful-film-producers-hollywood-788505

 

 

Do you think that people absorb a large amount of violent media may be more naturally aggressive people, and that watching violent media doesn't really have an effect?

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Guns are part of the problem. So are movies and especially video games. But a lot of other things that various ones of us enjoy cause problems as well. Alcohol, drugs, gambling, pornography, tobacco, fast cars, etc. Which is worth more to society, the freedom to enjoy these things? Or safety from the possibility of being harmed by these things?

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Another shooting in another "Gun Free Zone"

 

Making stricter gun laws only hinders the responsible ones ability to defend themselves. Does anyone seriously think taking guns away is going to make guns go away?

 

I see it like drugs, the people that want them will get them...or, as bnilhome said, make a bomb, or something else.

 

Actually, it's perfectly legal to conceal and carry on college campuses in Oregon.

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You cant take away any of that stuff. The number of people that use those things for the right reasons far outweigh the bad.

 

Ok so, it's not an outside problem that causes it because not everyone does it that uses those outside tools.

 

Let's look internally. Into the person's life and background. Depression, isolation, social rejection, etc...

 

Where do those things come from? I would argue that they manifest inside a person in/at school starting at a younger age, not too young but near the age of adolescence. With social media now, it goes home with them. Schools are so worried about funding from test scores that we are missing the boat on social acceptance, character, self esteem. I know I've advocated that thicker skin need to prevail but people also need to be taught that degrading one another should not be a "go to" mechanism.

 

What's more important? Test scores on math and english? Or the emotional and mental health of a person?

 

Shoot, I've been there. I was a late bloomer and didn't hit puberty till late my freshman year of high school. I took a lot of grief for it, too keep it short, I got to the point mentally where I wanted to transfer schools, and even had thoughts of killing myself. So I get the estrangement. It sucks. I never wanted to kill anyone, but, who knows how much further my mind would have gone had I not finally had my nuts and voice drop when they did.

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Criminals don't follow laws? Correct, therefor legalize everything?

 

Why are we the only 1st world country to have these tragedies? Lack of gun control and a lack of mental health awareness, and a deadly combination of the two

 

The shooter apparently targeted Christians, if Obama doesn't speak out against this in his next speech. I'm assuming he will. I may have to give up facebook for a couple weeks because of all the obama/Muslim /Christian memes.

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I'm willing to bet that a majority of these mass shooters don't come from privileged or even middle-class backgrounds, and when you talk about lack of access, it's usually the poor who suffer most.

 

As someone who suffers from anxiety and depression I can say that in my experiences, while access is a problem for some, I also believe that for many there is lack of recognition of the problem (it doesn't show up like a broken leg on an x-ray) by people around the sufferer and the ability of the sufferer to admit they have a problem and seek positive help. It wouldn't matter how much money the government threw into the mental health system if people can't/won't see there is a greater issue than just a "bad day" or "bad month" and be humble enough to seek help for it.

 

Throw in the fact then that people are ever increasingly quick to take sides and be angry rather than taking a step back and trying to positively impact a negative situation and then relatively easy access to weapons that can cause large scale death toll and little brain power to use and you come to a place where impulse action reigns and a lot of people die frequently.

 

It's not all guns' fault. It's not all mental illness' fault. These are not the only issues by any means, (i.e. issues like the one brought up on desensitization of killing and death through movies, video games and the like) and no one of them is the end all. the point is that we recognize all these areas as problem areas but we as a collective unit are spending more time arguing about where "the one big problem lies" rather than trying to do something about them all.

 

At some point pro gun people have to get off their pedestal and admit that guns are part of the problem. Hopefully at the same point anti-gun people get off their pedestal and admit that there probably can be a better solution than just taking away all guns. Then we all can admit there are also more contributing factors like mental illness, self esteem issues, self serving nature issues, etc that also need to be addressed. And then at the end of the day we'll admit we just want the killings to stop and will do what it takes to ensure that happens. The fact of the matter is we have to start somewhere and the elephant in the room is guns, so lets have a conversation about how we can reduce their impact in the equation.

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Here is my question for those who want campuses armed.

 

We will use Virginia Tech as an example. It's a rather large campus, when the shooting happened what kind of description did they have of the active shooter? How does person A know that person B they just in countered with each having a gun isn't the original shooter and someone just trying to play "hero"

 

what happens if someone gets shot by your hero in cross fire?

 

Also now your shooter has easier access to guns.

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I'm willing to bet that a majority of these mass shooters don't come from privileged or even middle-class backgrounds, and when you talk about lack of access, it's usually the poor who suffer most.

 

As someone who suffers from anxiety and depression I can say that in my experiences, while access is a problem for some, I also believe that for many there is lack of recognition of the problem (it doesn't show up like a broken leg on an x-ray) by people around the sufferer and the ability of the sufferer to admit they have a problem and seek positive help. It wouldn't matter how much money the government threw into the mental health system if people can't/won't see there is a greater issue than just a "bad day" or "bad month" and be humble enough to seek help for it.

Throw in the fact then that people are ever increasingly quick to take sides and be angry rather than taking a step back and trying to positively impact a negative situation and then relatively easy access to weapons that can cause large scale death toll and little brain power to use and you come to a place where impulse action reigns and a lot of people die frequently.

It's not all guns' fault. It's not all mental illness' fault. These are not the only issues by any means, (i.e. issues like the one brought up on desensitization of killing and death through movies, video games and the like) and no one of them is the end all. the point is that we recognize all these areas as problem areas but we as a collective unit are spending more time arguing about where "the one big problem lies" rather than trying to do something about them all.

At some point pro gun people have to get off their pedestal and admit that guns are part of the problem. Hopefully at the same point anti-gun people get off their pedestal and admit that there probably can be a better solution than just taking away all guns. Then we all can admit there are also more contributing factors like mental illness, self esteem issues, self serving nature issues, etc that also need to be addressed. And then at the end of the day we'll admit we just want the killings to stop and will do what it takes to ensure that happens.

Can't agree more. It's hard to address a problem when you either don't realize it exists or you're too proud to admit you're dealing with a problem. Even more, I think another issue is the lack of recognition of access to resources.

 

My post wasn't meant to point solely at mental health and say "that's the only thing preventing all mass murders." That would be incredibly naive. It isn't just guns fault (although they contribute) and it isn't just mental health's fault (although it contributes) and it isn't just violent media's fault (although it contributes).

 

The outrage comes because we have one side firmly entrenched in ignoring research that can help us solve these problems. We've studied violent media, we've studied mental health, but we're unable to study guns because the NRA continues to block any research exploring it. That's not right, and at some point the NRA should be held responsible for the continuance of extreme gun violence in the USA.

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I'm willing to bet that a majority of these mass shooters don't come from privileged or even middle-class backgrounds, and when you talk about lack of access, it's usually the poor who suffer most.

As someone who suffers from anxiety and depression I can say that in my experiences, while access is a problem for some, I also believe that for many there is lack of recognition of the problem (it doesn't show up like a broken leg on an x-ray) by people around the sufferer and the ability of the sufferer to admit they have a problem and seek positive help. It wouldn't matter how much money the government threw into the mental health system if people can't/won't see there is a greater issue than just a "bad day" or "bad month" and be humble enough to seek help for it.

Throw in the fact then that people are ever increasingly quick to take sides and be angry rather than taking a step back and trying to positively impact a negative situation and then relatively easy access to weapons that can cause large scale death toll and little brain power to use and you come to a place where impulse action reigns and a lot of people die frequently.

It's not all guns' fault. It's not all mental illness' fault. These are not the only issues by any means, (i.e. issues like the one brought up on desensitization of killing and death through movies, video games and the like) and no one of them is the end all. the point is that we recognize all these areas as problem areas but we as a collective unit are spending more time arguing about where "the one big problem lies" rather than trying to do something about them all.

At some point pro gun people have to get off their pedestal and admit that guns are part of the problem. Hopefully at the same point anti-gun people get off their pedestal and admit that there probably can be a better solution than just taking away all guns. Then we all can admit there are also more contributing factors like mental illness, self esteem issues, self serving nature issues, etc that also need to be addressed. And then at the end of the day we'll admit we just want the killings to stop and will do what it takes to ensure that happens.

Can't agree more. It's hard to address a problem when you either don't realize it exists or you're too proud to admit you're dealing with a problem. Even more, I think another issue is the lack of recognition of access to resources.

 

My post wasn't meant to point solely at mental health and say "that's the only thing preventing all mass murders." That would be incredibly naive. It isn't just guns fault (although they contribute) and it isn't just mental health's fault (although it contributes) and it isn't just violent media's fault (although it contributes).

 

The outrage comes because we have one side firmly entrenched in ignoring research that can help us solve these problems. We've studied violent media, we've studied mental health, but we're unable to study guns because the NRA continues to block any research exploring it. That's not right, and at some point the NRA should be held responsible for the continuance of extreme gun violence in the USA.

 

Yep, i was reading you loud and clear and wasn't arguing with you at all...just agreeing and supplementing.

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I fully understand the depression or mental issue. My family has had members suffer from it.

 

However, I believe there is a part of this that separates the people who suffer from depression and the ones who take it to an entire other level and decide to take a bunch of guns, walk into a crowd and start blowing people away.

 

I know some aren't going to like this but I have to believe it gets back their family life growing up and at the time of the shootings. They have no real base of security and people around them giving them any type of guidance and help in life.

 

When a teenager gets into a problem emotionally and the adults in their life are not there nor have they been examples of how to deal with appropriately, unfortunately, sometimes it ends up like this. There is a certain amount of our population that, quite frankly, absolutely sucks as parents and there are kids stuck in these families with no support system.

 

This has nothing to do with socio-economic level either. These could be parents (single or married) who are poor, middle class or wealth but are completely absent from their kid's lives.

 

The affects of this might rise to the surface as a mass shooting as a teenager like Columbine or it might sit and fester for years and rise to the surface later in life. BUT, it all starts with the family life these people grow up in.

 

Now, these are my thoughts. I would love to see a study done on the back grounds and family lives of these people who carry out these horrible acts.

 

But, no politician is going to come out and say..."The problem is because people suck as parents".

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I fully understand the depression or mental issue. My family has had members suffer from it.

 

However, I believe there is a part of this that separates the people who suffer from depression and the ones who take it to an entire other level and decide to take a bunch of guns, walk into a crowd and start blowing people away.

 

I know some aren't going to like this but I have to believe it gets back their family life growing up and at the time of the shootings. They have no real base of security and people around them giving them any type of guidance and help in life.

 

When a teenager gets into a problem emotionally and the adults in their life are not there nor have they been examples of how to deal with appropriately, unfortunately, sometimes it ends up like this. There is a certain amount of our population that, quite frankly, absolutely sucks as parents and there are kids stuck in these families with no support system.

 

This has nothing to do with socio-economic level either. These could be parents (single or married) who are poor, middle class or wealth but are completely absent from their kid's lives.

 

The affects of this might rise to the surface as a mass shooting as a teenager like Columbine or it might sit and fester for years and rise to the surface later in life. BUT, it all starts with the family life these people grow up in.

 

Now, these are my thoughts. I would love to see a study done on the back grounds and family lives of these people who carry out these horrible acts.

 

But, no politician is going to come out and say..."The problem is because people suck as parents".

Agree. 100 percent

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http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/?utm_source=LNL

 

 

just a few examples of people exercising their right to defend themselves and others.

 

Doesn't include all the people that defend themselves in their own homes from violent criminals.

 

Latest FBI stats show gun ownership rising while violent crime rates are falling. Sorry didn't include any NRA propaganda but I can include a Colion Noir video if you want :D

look him up; he's an interesting guy :) but he's an NRA spokesperson.

 

 

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I'm sorry but it is getting to the point where it is nigh impossible to talk about gun control without being within a 48 hour window of a highly publicized gun crime. What happened is a tragedy. Let us prevent future tragedies by invoking some actual gun control in this country.

 

If Americans really wanted to make a difference and send a message, they should boycott any Hollywood producers that make movies involving any sort of gun violence, as well as the mainstream networks like CBS and others for having so many television shows depicting gun violence (like Criminal Minds, CSI, etc...) as well as X Box 360, Playstation, and video game makers for depicting violence. The gun is just the weapon of choice, but the criminal has to get the idea to commit the act from somewhere, and those ideas come from common entertainment mediums.

 

Here is a link to the top 30 Hollywood producers.

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/list/30-powerful-film-producers-hollywood-788505

 

 

Do you think that people absorb a large amount of violent media may be more naturally aggressive people, and that watching violent media doesn't really have an effect?

 

 

The US has passed more gun control laws in the past 50 years or so (since 1968) than any other part of our country's history. Even in the 1970s and 1980s we didn't see as many of htese tragedies as we've seen in the past 20 years. Our culture has changed greatly. I agree with one of the posters that talked about the breakdown of the family as one of the keys...that is a major issue. Also, the growing secular nature of our society, and the embracing of sex and violence in movies and television. Someone that chooses to do such an act has something that is putting that vision in his or her mind. I don't think humans are born to think, hey, why don't i go and shoot up a bunch of people today. I'm Conservative and am fine with laws that are doing background checks, etc..but that is not the major problem. It's understanding why individuals are killing others, whether its by gun, knife, a bomb, etc..

 

This country will not get anywhere with a President that comes out, within hours of such a tragedy, including when some family members still had not known if their loved one was killed, and uses the tragedy to make a political argument. His words and actions further emboldened those on both sides of the debate, making common ground more difficult to reach. He is a natural divider which is frustrating as this country is in trouble and needs a unifying presence.

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