Reported Sexual Assault at Armstrong's House Under Investigation

[BigRedBuster]

How about just not posting rumors?

[NUance]

How about just not posting rumors?

 

That would also be acceptable. :

[84HuskerLaw]

I would say there is a great deal of information you are all so wildly speculating on that it is silly. Wait and see what, if anything comes forth from the reliable sources (police and courts in particular). Statements from anyone are nothing more than statements from people. Any and all people can and sometimes do lie and misrepresent and distort and deceive. Sometimes they tell the truth. That is why the police are supposed to carefully investigate and evaluate and use forensic and other reliable methods to learn and veryify the FACTS to the extent possible.

 

Rape cases are frequently difficult to veryify beyond the sexual contact assuming there is DNA available and reliably collected, preserved and accurately tested and confirmed through scientific processes. Consent is often difficult to determine and frequently the only evidence of consent is the testimony of the accused should he or she choose to testify. The lack of consent is nearly always evidenced by testimony of the complainant/alleged victim, though of course physical evidene suggesting lack of consent may be corroborate the said testimony if force was used such as constraints, beating, etc.

 

Police and prosecutors must carefully evaluate all the evidence, once it is carefully procured. Witnesses statements are compared and witnesses are frequently questioned multiple times over a period of time to be sure their statements are consistent and reliable and match up with the physical scene, facts, etc. Investigations that are rushed often have mistakes and are not reliable. False accusations of serious crimes, especially rape for example, are almost always devastating to the accused, EVEN IF such person is later exonerated. The damage to name, reputation and so on is irreparable in some cases. Nobody wants to be falsely accused. Good cops do not want to falsely arrest and jail the innocent. Good prosecutors do not want to file felony criminal charges against anyone.

 

Newspapers need to be very careful what they report and if they have nothing substantial or meaningful to report in the story, then no story should be published. This story as I read it is at best barely minimally sufficient to publish. No arrests, no suspects, no searches, etc. Basically officers were called to investigate a possible crime related to an address in Lincoln, Nebraska. That happens in Lincoln, Nebraska many times each and every day I am sure.

 

I hope the newspapers will print front page, in huge type size, the results of the investigation should it turn out that those persons named in the story are not implicated in any sexual assault case. They are already being tarred and feathered by some out in the public no doubt. Give the fellows a break until the facts are ALL in.

 

As far as how long it takes for DNA testing to be completed in the lab, I don't believe it would take more than a few days, tops. The fact that the police say it will take months suggests there are some problems with the DNA samples or something to me (quantity, contamination, testing process errors, etc). Perhaps it will take a special lab in some far away location? Do the need the results back before they file charges and arrest suspects? No, but if the other evidence is NOT pretty convincing, then the DNA may be necessary. If there is an issue of intercourse (or not), then the testing may be critical.

 

Again, all of this is interesting to discuss in theory but as we know nothing about what happened (if anything), then it is all just talk.

 

It is sad that any names were revealed to the public at all because these guys will be looked at differently until who knows when by almost everyone. I feel bad for them and each of them if they are in fact innocent of such criminal activity. This could haunt them for years, perhaps without any basis.

[Red Dead Redemption]

ATTENTION: The rumors in this thread are spinning out of control. I moved a number of rumor posts to Rumorville. Please post rumors in that thread, and discuss them there. Carry on.

 

[Warrior10]

 

Nah, couple friends of mine had purely academic based scholarships that provided money for off campus living.

 

So "Nah" what? Players don't get $1300 a month?

Nah that $1300 shouldn't be considered a salary. However, this argument on whether it's a job or not could go on forever and I don't really have a opinion on it that care that much about. My original statement was too point his story about his father has nothing to do with the situation.

 

But after I say that we have a discussion that doesn't have anything to do with it either. Ha.

[ScottyIce]

ATTENTION: The rumors in this thread are spinning out of control. I moved a number of rumor posts to Rumorville. Please post rumors in that thread, and discuss them there. Carry on.

Thank you for this. And now I'll continue to read only in this thread.

[Hunter94]

I would say there is a great deal of information you are all so wildly speculating on that it is silly. Wait and see what, if anything comes forth from the reliable sources (police and courts in particular). Statements from anyone are nothing more than statements from people. Any and all people can and sometimes do lie and misrepresent and distort and deceive. Sometimes they tell the truth. That is why the police are supposed to carefully investigate and evaluate and use forensic and other reliable methods to learn and veryify the FACTS to the extent possible.

 

Rape cases are frequently difficult to veryify beyond the sexual contact assuming there is DNA available and reliably collected, preserved and accurately tested and confirmed through scientific processes. Consent is often difficult to determine and frequently the only evidence of consent is the testimony of the accused should he or she choose to testify. The lack of consent is nearly always evidenced by testimony of the complainant/alleged victim, though of course physical evidene suggesting lack of consent may be corroborate the said testimony if force was used such as constraints, beating, etc.

 

Police and prosecutors must carefully evaluate all the evidence, once it is carefully procured. Witnesses statements are compared and witnesses are frequently questioned multiple times over a period of time to be sure their statements are consistent and reliable and match up with the physical scene, facts, etc. Investigations that are rushed often have mistakes and are not reliable. False accusations of serious crimes, especially rape for example, are almost always devastating to the accused, EVEN IF such person is later exonerated. The damage to name, reputation and so on is irreparable in some cases. Nobody wants to be falsely accused. Good cops do not want to falsely arrest and jail the innocent. Good prosecutors do not want to file felony criminal charges against anyone.

 

Newspapers need to be very careful what they report and if they have nothing substantial or meaningful to report in the story, then no story should be published. This story as I read it is at best barely minimally sufficient to publish. No arrests, no suspects, no searches, etc. Basically officers were called to investigate a possible crime related to an address in Lincoln, Nebraska. That happens in Lincoln, Nebraska many times each and every day I am sure.

 

I hope the newspapers will print front page, in huge type size, the results of the investigation should it turn out that those persons named in the story are not implicated in any sexual assault case. They are already being tarred and feathered by some out in the public no doubt. Give the fellows a break until the facts are ALL in.

 

As far as how long it takes for DNA testing to be completed in the lab, I don't believe it would take more than a few days, tops. The fact that the police say it will take months suggests there are some problems with the DNA samples or something to me (quantity, contamination, testing process errors, etc). Perhaps it will take a special lab in some far away location? Do the need the results back before they file charges and arrest suspects? No, but if the other evidence is NOT pretty convincing, then the DNA may be necessary. If there is an issue of intercourse (or not), then the testing may be critical.

 

Again, all of this is interesting to discuss in theory but as we know nothing about what happened (if anything), then it is all just talk.

 

It is sad that any names were revealed to the public at all because these guys will be looked at differently until who knows when by almost everyone. I feel bad for them and each of them if they are in fact innocent of such criminal activity. This could haunt them for years, perhaps without any basis.

agree, even with the most through investigation, the facts end up being skewed and charges are often impossible to be brought against the suspect.....no one wins in these sexual assault cases, nobody!

[Enhance]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When there's a police report of a significant crime at an address of public interest, the media reports it. We aren't going to throw that by the wayside because it involves Nebraska football players.

 

Except there is no crime, as of yet - it's one reported allegation. There's a difference.

 

And do you really think stations like KETV and WOWT are going to follow up on this nonsense? We don't even know the suspect yet.

 

There's a good chance nothing will come of this and if that happens I highly doubt they're going to come out and say "well, sorry, we made a big deal about something that turned into nothing."

He said "When there's a police report of a significant crime at an address of public interest." That has happened. There is a police report of a significant crime. That is fact.

Police report does not equal crime.

 

I could go right now to a police station and a file a report saying you killed my dog. An investigation must take place before we know an actual crime took place.

 

Similarly speaking, a rape kit must be completed and a protocol followed before it can be determined there was a crime.

 

There is a difference.

I understand, bud. However, the post by broganreynik made no mention of whether or not there was a crime. He said it will be reported "When there's a police report of a significant crime at an address of public interest..

 

That has occurred.

There's no need to be condescending.

 

"When there is a police report of a significant crime."

 

There is a police report of a sexual assault allegation.

 

That is what has occurred. The language being thrown around on here suggests a crime has taken place and there is no public proof of that yet.

No. The police report documents the allegation. The police report is not an allegation of an allegation.

 

There is a police report (allegation) of a significant crime.

 

Either way, we are getting into semantics and we just clearly disagree on this issue.

 

It's not semantics, it's law.

 

Crimes come in the form of citations, court charges and arrests. A police report is an entirely separate entity. It's evidence.

 

The proper terminology is "a police report of an alleged sexual assault" or an "alleged crime." And while you may think it's semantics, it can often be the the difference between accusing someone or not.

 

 

Incorrect.Crimes are not in the form of arrests. Innocent people get arrested every day.

 

If we are going down this route, the proper terminology is "a police report containing facts alleged by a woman". People don't allege crimes, they allege facts. If those facts are determined to be true beyond a reasonable doubt, the law is then applied to determine if a crime was committed.

 

Again, semantics that are meaningless to the discussion at hand.

 

The bolded is essentially what I had reworded. You're arguing for the sake of arguing and we could've avoided this path awhile ago.

 

People need be 100% clear about what is going on here. "A police report of a significant crime" is completely unacceptable and misleading because no crime has taken place based on a court of law. We have an alleged victim making accusations in a report and that is IT. Until there is a probable cause affidavit, an arrest or court charges, no crime has factually been committed.

 

And now we come full circle. Reading through this board, what's being said online and the public perception now being created because of unethical reporting, I can't believe people defend the way this story has been covered.

 

I'm not posting in this thread anymore until there's something factual to talk about other than the fact that someone made an allegation that has yet to be proven.

[Red Five]

ATTENTION: The rumors in this thread are spinning out of control. I moved a number of rumor posts to Rumorville. Please post rumors in that thread, and discuss them there. Carry on.

Good call

[rdwoodpecker]

Not stating if I think anyone is guilty or not. I do have one question that if I heard it right I am not sure I understand.

 

The female mentioned that the rape happened between the hours of 2:30 sunday morning to 9:30 am. Why could she not narrow a time better down better than 7 hours?

 

If I misheard, please correct me.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

But you don't have to have DNA evidence to arrest someone, or charge them with the crime. DNA is necessary for a conviction, maybe, but not utterly necessary for a charge.

 

Also, while it can take 6-9 months, DNA testing - at least to find a match - can be done in as little as 24 hours. Getting lab time is often the biggest delay. But I have a hard time believing that we're backed up on lab testing for six to nine months.

 

I hate to speculate why they're focusing so much on the DNA kit.

I'm obviously not familiar with the State of Nebraska's crime lab and how far they are backed up. In the State of Iowa ours is extremely backlogged and months is a normal time to wait for a sexual assault kit to come back from testing. I can send a blood sample in for an OWI and it'll take 6 months or longer to get anything back here.

 

If the suspect and the victim both said that sexual intercourse did occur then the DNA testing is a moot point. They're just tying loose ends up there and the victim likely went to the hospital first anyways and the hospital staff immediately did the kit automatically as a matter of practice. If there are numerous people involved in this assault then that's something different, the kit now becomes a huge piece of evidence. Now the difficult part comes with proving intent, it turns into a big "he said, she said" situation, which is unfortunate for the victim because if the assault did actually occur they feel like no one believes them and they are victimized in another way now. These calls are in my Top 5 of calls that I hate to deal with because they are so delicate in how you have to handle them. Arresting the person isn't as easy as folks may think. You have to prove the intent to commit a sexual assault and determine what was the suspects mindset during the assault. I personally won't do it unless the prosecutor is good with charges moving forward and/or I've done my job well enough that it can be proved in court due to my investigation.

 

Yes, I've had some folks claim a sexual assault occurred when in fact it didn't or it couldn't be proven that it occurred. No, I don't have an opinion in this case and it sucks it's even going on.

[HuskerMerc44]

Read the info and some of the posts.

Nobody has asked.

Where was Carl Pelini that night?

[knapplc]

Thanks for the insight, BRI. I can only imagine how tough such investigations must be.

[Moiraine]

Not stating if I think anyone is guilty or not. I do have one question that if I heard it right I am not sure I understand.

 

The female mentioned that the rape happened between the hours of 2:30 sunday morning to 9:30 am. Why could she not narrow a time better down better than 7 hours?

 

If I misheard, please correct me.

It could have happened while she was asleep, then she woke up and figured out what happened. Or since they were at a party alcohol may have been involved.

[gtgphd]

the police investigation is only part of the problem. Title IX requires that UNL investigate the report, assuming the reporting party is a student. The standard of evidence in Title IX investigations is the civil standard, preponderance of evidence, which means more likely than not. It is a much lower standard than the criminal standard, which of course is beyond a reasonable doubt. In Title IX investigations, the process is administrative, which allows for hearsay evidence. Title IX, as interpreted by the DOE and OCR, allows for the reporting party or the respondent (accused) to appeal any findings or sanctions or lack of sanctions.

 

So the police and prosecutors could decide not to bring charges and prosecute, but under Title IX the University must still investigate, must apply a lower standard of proof, and may impose sanctions up to and including expulsion from school.

 

Read the book Missoula to see how this can work.