[Spoilers] Star Wars Episode VII The Force Awakens Spoiler Thread

[zoogs]

So there's this idea that the Force has been "dormant" since Luke's attempt to start a new Jedi Order ended in ruin (I notice they always go to great care to avoid explicitly saying that the other pupils were murdered) -- but that, at the start of the movie, it has Awakened. Only Kylo, Snoke, and Luke are likely to have felt it. It feels to me there's some good distance being put between this and concepts introduced in the prequels.

 

If force sensitivity didn't require genetics before, it certainly doesn't need to in general (even if there are times where genetics causes it). At this point, the only purpose lineage could possibly serve is homage. Rey doesn't need it, nor does the story. They're both better off without making her a tribute. Hers is the best character Star Wars has ever had (/ducks), and should get all its due glory.

 

I'd really like the old stories to be left alone. Anakin fulfilled the Big Ancient Prophecy ... or whatever, close enough. The end, to that New chapter, because life and the struggles of good and evil go on.

 

What do you guys think about the budding romance between Finn and Poe Dameron, by the way? If you ask me, it's happening. And it will be beautiful!

[Redux]

But her being the daughter or grand neice of a past Jedi Knight doesn't HAVE to be one we know. It could be as simple as this:

 

Luke, during training Rey- "I was the one who placed you on Jakku. When Ben solo turned to the darkside and began hunting down my pupils, I knew I had to protect you. Your father (Insert Made up Jedi Name Here) trusted me to keep you safe".

 

Simple enough. Lineage isn't necessary by any means, but Rey's unnaturally strong force powers were "awakened" when she got close to someone with even mediocre force powers. For having no training that we know of or she knows of, she was able to take on quite the task of beating down Kylo Ren. This is why I believe she has a strong background or heritage of the force and it is why I think she was one of Luke's pupils, hidden away like Obi Wan did for Luke.

 

Finn has the hots for Rey, Poe better accept that or the triangle could get messy.

[Landlord]

Finn and Poe have a bromance that we should all be jealous of, honestly. I'd love to have someone look at me with the excitement that they have gazing into each other's brown eyes.

[Redux]

Finn and Poe have a bromance that we should all be jealous of, honestly. I'd love to have someone look at me with the excitement that they have gazing into each other's brown eyes.

Woah...

[ZRod]

Goose!!!

[zoogs]

But her being the daughter or grand neice of a past Jedi Knight doesn't HAVE to be one we know.

That's true -- it could be some unknown character who is never introduced, and whose only purpose is to reinforce the idea that Rey's extreme greatness isn't something that was simply within her, waiting to be discovered. That instead, her greatness was something some powerful Father/Mother DNA gave her...and now, she's just taking over the ol' Family Biz, as they say. As if she'd have any other conceivable path under those circumstances.

 

This is Rey's story of realizing her potential, and finding - and choosing her belonging. That's kinda the general story of everyone's life. Star Wars already told the "calling of one's inheritance" coming-of-age journey. This one can be different. Please be different?

 

--

 

I'm being totally serious about Finn/Poe, by the way. It occurred to me the second time that they had a real cinematic moment as a reunion, when Finn's heart leaps as he recognizes Poe in the distance, and they run into each other's arms in embrace.

 

I thought, "Huh." And then, I was half-amazed, half-not-that-surprised to find actual strong signals for this. There's this teaser from Oscar Isaac in discussing the romance aspect of his role:

 

"I think its very subtle romance thats happening; you have to watch it a few times to see the little hints...I wont say with which character. It could be a droid."

Abrams, and Disney in particular, are all about flipping the script lately: how about a prominent gay love story in lieu of the standard boy-meets-girl, boy-gets-girl? At the very least, they've laid *all* the necessary groundwork for this to be Finn's story. Or Poe's story. Intersecting, as they were, no less important than but out of the way of the Heroine's Story.

 

Rey is the only young female character featured so far and I think it's clear she's not going to be merely turned into some guy's prize. If they do want to tell her love story at all and make it a full-blown space soap, I'm sure they'll make pains to handle it differently than that. I think it'd be kind of neat to just see Rey focus on her Force stuff. She doesn't have to shun love, but a tale of identity-finding doesn't need to be tied to the search for a soulmate. The Independent Male Hero who is mostly about his own mad skills (and of course he'll find some girl at some point, if and when he wants to) is extremely well established. Let's see that in a woman hero.

 

And with Rey and Finn, I really feel they're going to leave it at friendship. TFA makes a pretty big deal of using those words, and I think it would also be massively refreshing to feature a story about a meaningful relationship between male and female leads that doesn't inevitably result in love/sex/magic (Ft. Justin Timberlake. Ha...) Friendship and romance aren't wholly overlapping sets in our lives, either; as a movie trope, it's overplayed.

 

I'm so giddy at these prospects that I might be completely sullen if they don't happen! Look, none of this stuff is new to movies or pop culture, but it'd still be hugely, unequivocally wonderful to see it feature in a vehicle as big as Star Wars.

[Landlord]

Don't think Disney would go for it, tbh

[Redux]

I'm glad they kept Poe alive instead of killing him off. His first scene with Kylo Ren was brilliant.

 

I agree though, Rey is more than capable of standing on her own as a force weilder. Daisy Ridley really impressed me with her take on the character. Lineage or not, Rey has huge potential. I do completely expect her to have been a pupil of Lukes as a child though.

 

No way Disney goes for the Finn and Poe romantic trist, the payoff is certainly there but it could also just be viewed as a stunt on their part and that would taint the whole thing.

[zoogs]

They did Frozen. It wasn't the most groundbreaking movie ever, but it shows how much being more modern and inclusive is an emphasis for Disney. J.K. Rowling did it after the fact in 2007 with Harry Potter. Dreamworks danced around this extremely subtly with an animated feature in 2014. A front-and-center portrayal is GOING to happen, and that train has been accelerating rapidly in the past decade.

 

Maybe wishful thinking, but I completely can see them doing it. Ep8 ~ '17, Ep9 ~ '19. The opportunity is perfect, and they have to honor the massive success and setup of The Force Awakens somehow. The same old Disney or the same old Star Wars is not going to cut it.

 

I forgot to add this also, think about that Oscar Isaac's character was meant to die in the TIE crash very early in this movie. Isaac was crushed, but JJ came back to him later and said he'd figured out a way to make it worthwhile for both the character and audiences to keep Poe Dameron around. Isaac is a bona fide star. He's not here just to make his name as an actor, or to be a pretty face.

 

I don't care if the haters will see it as a stunt. This kind of thing hasn't been taken head-on before in a movie like this, but Disney has the capability to. They are SURELY planning it for some movie in the next decade; what better than Star Wars, and what better time than now? Brokeback wasn't viewed as a stunt. I don't think this would be either, as long as they give it a full, serious love story treatment instead of making it a token reveal.

 

Everything about the new Star Wars so far has been "the same old themes...but, from a different angle." C'mon, it's happening!

[Landlord]

This would be viewed as a stunt just because of the fact that it comes in a Star Wars package. Brokeback was it's own thing so it was easy for it to be "it's own thing" in a genuine sense.

 

 

Anyways, I don't really care one way or the other, and I think zoogs is a little bit too wishful thinking or reading into it too far. Keep in mind Finn was trying to chase after Ren for a bit upon first meeting. It's cool to see the two main leads have such good chemistry regardless of the categorical box of their "type" of relationship though.

[zoogs]

Yeah, I am definitely wishful thinking this -- please don't mind me

 

Finn did make somewhat of a pass in a line that's there more for laughs and to establish his awkwardness. I'm not sure he'd ever really interacted with a girl before, but anyway, he was pretty firmly rebuffed, I thought. The two grow to care about each other over the course of the movie, and I expect their friendship to develop further. It just doesn't make sense to me to have either his or Rey's journey result in that initial off-handed effort, if you could call it that, winning out.

 

Rey isn't looking like she'll leave enough room for Finn to have a big hero's journey of his own in this trilogy. But that doesn't preclude him from a journey of finding and exploring his identity in parallel. And for us, it gives us a central love story without suggesting that winning some pretty thing's heart is part and parcel of becoming the Conquering Hero we all would like to be.

 

/settles down.

[Moiraine]

I imagine the Force is similar to magic in Harry Potter in that it can be passed down but can also be in someone whose parents either didn't have it or were never aware of it. Since jedi aren't supposed to have kids it seems like the # if them in episodes 1-3 was pretty large if it's only passed down. I guess it could be a dormant gene.

[Enhance]

 

I've always been really interested in Luke's story because it seems like so much happens off screen that you never really get an answer for. People with expansive EU knowledge will know a lot more than me, but one example is how does Luke go from still fairly sniffly-nosed kid to badass confident Jedi in between ESB and ROTJ? Did he go back to train with Yoda a 3rd time that we never see on screen? Just seems like a LOT of his development towards legitimate Jedi Knight is fairly unexplained, and while the hive minded, exclusive indoctrination methods of the Jedi Order are kind of disturbing (not training anyone older than basically an infant), it did obviously result in much more polished, emotionally removed Jedi knights. Who/where/when did Luke rise to that level of stoicism? Did he ever?

 

 

 

Unrelated, I hope people will eventually jump off the "it basically just copies A New Hope" bandwagon. Look - the original Star Wars story wasn't really all that original regardless, nor were a lot of the thematic elements/filmmaking techniques. Like zoogs said, it's a classic monomyth. The call to adventure, the belly of the whale, road of trials, etc., are all classic story elements. They were packaged and realized into an overall product that was new and refreshing, but that's what creativity is; remixing old ideas.

 

Besides that, there is plenty new in TFA. Our first real protagonist perspective is a stormtrooper, and we get some exploration of the humanity of stormtroopers. People want to compare Rey to this trilogy's Luke, but Luke was a whiny ass little kid. Rey is strong, confident, determined and formidable. Kylo Ren, even as a potentially emo angsty teen, is a refreshing perspective for a villain in a universe that has always had the most elementary villain archetypes imaginable. In fact, I'm not really even sure if he will completely fulfill a villain role or not - in a universe that has always been outrageously heavy handed towards good vs. evil, kudos to Abrams for injecting some shades of grey.

 

More than anything, the ending of TFA is a lot more similar to the ending of ESB than ANH, new death star and all. A New Hope had a very happy, successful, feel good ending. TFA an entire solar system gets destroyed, one of the most beloved characters dies, one of the new guard nearly dies (how the hell do you heal from a full lightsaber slice to the back?), and while it's "good" that they find Luke, there's still a very grim sense to it all.

Well said.

 

I think a lot of Luke's training was completed during Empire, but I too am curious if that was it or if there were other sessions. He makes a dramatic jump between films so one would assume he and Yoda hung out a bit more or at the least Yoda sent him on some journeys.

 

I think part of it could also be just as simple as Luke's natural maturity progression, too. Between ANH and ESB, it stands to reason he did a lot of fighting, a lot of growing up and a lot of reflection. Perhaps Obi-Wan still made contact in ways to continue Luke's training? But, in the same breath, Rey had basically no formal training (that we are aware of yet) and quickly realized she could not only control people's minds, but, also use the Force to bring Luke's lightsaber to her.

 

As far as Luke and Yoda's relationship, I'm inclined to believe the two only had two meetings - the one in ESB and when he returned in ROTJ. The reason I say that is because Luke tells Yoda that he 'promises' to return in ESB as he is leaving to go help Han and Leia. Then, in ROTJ, Luke makes it a point to say he has a 'promise' to keep, which is why he then immediately returns to the Dagobah system to see Yoda instead of sticking with the rest of the Rebellion. Why would he say he has a promise to keep in ROTJ if he had already, at some point between the movies, returned to see Yoda? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Landlord]

you're right enhance, which makes his huge jump in maturity and ability/skill between the movies so interesting

[knapplc]

So, the whole Finn backstory is a lie? And exactly how "long time ago" did the story of the Skywalker family actually take place? And exactly how far away was this "galaxy far, far away?"

 

Because Finn was, apparently, a student at UNL not terribly long ago. Evidence:

 

 

Here's a story linking Finn to the University of Nebraska. Apparently while there he went by the name of "Boyega," which has to be the fakest-sounding Star Wars name ever.

 

LINK

 

Gonna suck if it turns out my favorite story from my childhood is a total lie.

 

Alternately, it's gonna be super exciting if it turns out it's all true, and I could maybe get my own lightsaber.