Target, Bathrooms, & a PC culture

[Landlord]

 

Like what will these people actually do? If they assault or rape someone, those are still crimes that there is no protection from. If they're looking to sneak a peek, well they'd have to set up a camera or peek underneath or over the top of a stall or something, which are still crimes. The only sort of thing that a person could do in the opposite gender's bathroom and 'get away with' easier than before without being arrested is just....stand there, which would be weird and uncomfortable, but hardly threatening. Maybe there's an argument that it puts them in an easier initial position from which to commit a serious crime, but there's not really been anything stopping predators from entering bathrooms before.

I think the argument is that this creates an unnecessary risk. You send your 8-year-old daughter into the potty while you stay outside with your 3-year-old. Some perv is in there on the pretext that "all people have access to all bathrooms" or "you can choose which bathroom you use based on which gender you feel like today" and they do something bad to your daughter. It's a terrifying scenario for any parent.

 

Also, women do not want to use the same bathroom as men. Not one woman I've asked about this is OK with guys in their bathroom. Yeah, that's anecdotal, but it's 100% so far.

 

Again, just presenting arguments and "facts," not advocating for which way this should go. I still haven't made up my mind.

 

 

 

 

I actually agree with all of this and understand the argument. I think the argument ends, however, at the increase in risk being so minute as compared to other more likely risks we comfortably live with every day.

[JJ Husker]

 

 

Like what will these people actually do? If they assault or rape someone, those are still crimes that there is no protection from. If they're looking to sneak a peek, well they'd have to set up a camera or peek underneath or over the top of a stall or something, which are still crimes. The only sort of thing that a person could do in the opposite gender's bathroom and 'get away with' easier than before without being arrested is just....stand there, which would be weird and uncomfortable, but hardly threatening. Maybe there's an argument that it puts them in an easier initial position from which to commit a serious crime, but there's not really been anything stopping predators from entering bathrooms before.

 

I think the argument is that this creates an unnecessary risk. You send your 8-year-old daughter into the potty while you stay outside with your 3-year-old. Some perv is in there on the pretext that "all people have access to all bathrooms" or "you can choose which bathroom you use based on which gender you feel like today" and they do something bad to your daughter. It's a terrifying scenario for any parent.

Also, women do not want to use the same bathroom as men. Not one woman I've asked about this is OK with guys in their bathroom. Yeah, that's anecdotal, but it's 100% so far.

Again, just presenting arguments and "facts," not advocating for which way this should go. I still haven't made up my mind.

 

 

I actually agree with all of this and understand the argument. I think the argument ends, however, at the increase in risk being so minute as compared to other more likely risks we comfortably live with every day.

I also agree with all of what knapp said and I think I am beginning to better understand your view. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think lots of people who feel this is only a minor increase in risk have probably been used to being exposed to greater risk by living in or around larger cities. You live in Chi town now and previously ATL? I can easily see where someone used to these generally more dangerous places can't really grasp the fear those of us may have who just aren't used to that crush of humanity. The largest city I've ever lived in is Lincoln. I can unequivocally state that the larger the city the less comfortable I feel in public spaces. I would assume someone that is used to larger cities has probably grown somewhat immune to the sense of danger and likely views this issue much differently than those of us who are not used to it.

 

Edit- to be honest, I've felt pretty creeped out in few extremely small towns too. You pull off the interstate to go to the bathroom and the cast of Texas Chainsaw Massacre is there to greet you.... That can be pretty creepy too.

[Landlord]

I also agree with all of what knapp said and I think I am beginning to better understand your view. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think lots of people who feel this is only a minor increase in risk have probably been used to being exposed to greater risk by living in or around larger cities. You live in Chi town now and previously ATL? I can easily see where someone used to these generally more dangerous places can't really grasp the fear those of us may have who just aren't used to that crush of humanity. The largest city I've ever lived in is Lincoln. I can unequivocally state that the larger the city the less comfortable I feel in public spaces. I would assume someone that is used to larger cities has probably grown somewhat immune to the sense of danger and likely views this issue much differently than those of us who are not used to it.

 

 

That could be, and that's also an interesting perspective, because I'd imagine that the less urban your area, along with the increase in fear of the unfamiliar, there'd probably be a decrease in the likelihood of ever having these sorts of things personally intersect with your life, right?

 

Ever since moving away from Nebraska, my mind has changed and "been opened" on a lot of things as I've been exposed to and lived life in interaction with more minority, disadvantaged groups. I don't think I was any worse of a person, but I was very ignorant in the non-loaded sense of the word; just honestly unaware and unfamiliar with different life experiences.

 

Every single member of my entire family sans one aunt and my half-brother live in Nebraska, almost all in towns of 5,000 or less. My family is good people. Even so, when I'm home for holidays I can't help but internally cringe at some of the things I hear people casually say, some of the misconceptions present. Growing up I was a part of it. Now it's like, "Dude....you're talking about my friend Travis."

[JJ Husker]

 

I also agree with all of what knapp said and I think I am beginning to better understand your view. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think lots of people who feel this is only a minor increase in risk have probably been used to being exposed to greater risk by living in or around larger cities. You live in Chi town now and previously ATL? I can easily see where someone used to these generally more dangerous places can't really grasp the fear those of us may have who just aren't used to that crush of humanity. The largest city I've ever lived in is Lincoln. I can unequivocally state that the larger the city the less comfortable I feel in public spaces. I would assume someone that is used to larger cities has probably grown somewhat immune to the sense of danger and likely views this issue much differently than those of us who are not used to it.

 

 

That could be, and that's also an interesting perspective, because I'd imagine that the less urban your area, along with the increase in fear of the unfamiliar, there'd probably be a decrease in the likelihood of ever having these sorts of things personally intersect with your life, right?

 

Ever since moving away from Nebraska, my mind has changed and "been opened" on a lot of things as I've been exposed to and lived life in interaction with more minority, disadvantaged groups. I don't think I was any worse of a person, but I was very ignorant in the non-loaded sense of the word; just honestly unaware and unfamiliar with different life experiences.

 

Every single member of my entire family sans one aunt and my half-brother live in Nebraska, almost all in towns of 5,000 or less. My family is good people. Even so, when I'm home for holidays I can't help but internally cringe at some of the things I hear people casually say, some of the misconceptions present. Growing up I was a part of it. Now it's like, "Dude....you're talking about my friend Travis."

Yeah, I really think where we've lived and what we're used to is greatly affecting our differing views. Pretty much unavoidable I guess. I grew up in Columbus and have for the most part lived in Lincoln and Greeley other than that. I've grown and become more accepting of many things since leaving Columbus but likely not as much as I would've living in some of the places you have. Hopefully everyone recognizes that contributes to our worldview and that it tempers our view of other people's opinions and views. We all haven't had the same experiences or exposure.

[Red Dead Redemption]

Every single member of my entire family sans one aunt and my half-brother live in Nebraska, almost all in towns of 5,000 or less. My family is good people. Even so, when I'm home for holidays I can't help but internally cringe at some of the things I hear people casually say, some of the misconceptions present. Growing up I was a part of it. Now it's like, "Dude....you're talking about my friend Travis."

A lot of people from Nebraska probably think Texans are a$$hole$.

 

Well, I've lived in Austin for 20 years, and I can tell you it's true.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

 

 

I also agree with all of what knapp said and I think I am beginning to better understand your view. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think lots of people who feel this is only a minor increase in risk have probably been used to being exposed to greater risk by living in or around larger cities. You live in Chi town now and previously ATL? I can easily see where someone used to these generally more dangerous places can't really grasp the fear those of us may have who just aren't used to that crush of humanity. The largest city I've ever lived in is Lincoln. I can unequivocally state that the larger the city the less comfortable I feel in public spaces. I would assume someone that is used to larger cities has probably grown somewhat immune to the sense of danger and likely views this issue much differently than those of us who are not used to it.

 

That could be, and that's also an interesting perspective, because I'd imagine that the less urban your area, along with the increase in fear of the unfamiliar, there'd probably be a decrease in the likelihood of ever having these sorts of things personally intersect with your life, right?

 

Ever since moving away from Nebraska, my mind has changed and "been opened" on a lot of things as I've been exposed to and lived life in interaction with more minority, disadvantaged groups. I don't think I was any worse of a person, but I was very ignorant in the non-loaded sense of the word; just honestly unaware and unfamiliar with different life experiences.

 

Every single member of my entire family sans one aunt and my half-brother live in Nebraska, almost all in towns of 5,000 or less. My family is good people. Even so, when I'm home for holidays I can't help but internally cringe at some of the things I hear people casually say, some of the misconceptions present. Growing up I was a part of it. Now it's like, "Dude....you're talking about my friend Travis."

Yeah, I really think where we've lived and what we're used to is greatly affecting our differing views. Pretty much unavoidable I guess. I grew up in Columbus and have for the most part lived in Lincoln and Greeley other than that. I've grown and become more accepting of many things since leaving Columbus but likely not as much as I would've living in some of the places you have. Hopefully everyone recognizes that contributes to our worldview and that it tempers our view of other people's opinions and views. We all haven't had the same experiences or exposure.

 

 

Pretty sure JJ is my second account. Grew up in Columbus, lived in Lincoln and Greeley.

 

The problem with this "problem" is it doesn't seem like there's an equitable solution. Both sides of the argument have valid points.

[Landlord]

 

 

 

I also agree with all of what knapp said and I think I am beginning to better understand your view. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think lots of people who feel this is only a minor increase in risk have probably been used to being exposed to greater risk by living in or around larger cities. You live in Chi town now and previously ATL? I can easily see where someone used to these generally more dangerous places can't really grasp the fear those of us may have who just aren't used to that crush of humanity. The largest city I've ever lived in is Lincoln. I can unequivocally state that the larger the city the less comfortable I feel in public spaces. I would assume someone that is used to larger cities has probably grown somewhat immune to the sense of danger and likely views this issue much differently than those of us who are not used to it.

 

That could be, and that's also an interesting perspective, because I'd imagine that the less urban your area, along with the increase in fear of the unfamiliar, there'd probably be a decrease in the likelihood of ever having these sorts of things personally intersect with your life, right?

 

Ever since moving away from Nebraska, my mind has changed and "been opened" on a lot of things as I've been exposed to and lived life in interaction with more minority, disadvantaged groups. I don't think I was any worse of a person, but I was very ignorant in the non-loaded sense of the word; just honestly unaware and unfamiliar with different life experiences.

 

Every single member of my entire family sans one aunt and my half-brother live in Nebraska, almost all in towns of 5,000 or less. My family is good people. Even so, when I'm home for holidays I can't help but internally cringe at some of the things I hear people casually say, some of the misconceptions present. Growing up I was a part of it. Now it's like, "Dude....you're talking about my friend Travis."

Yeah, I really think where we've lived and what we're used to is greatly affecting our differing views. Pretty much unavoidable I guess. I grew up in Columbus and have for the most part lived in Lincoln and Greeley other than that. I've grown and become more accepting of many things since leaving Columbus but likely not as much as I would've living in some of the places you have. Hopefully everyone recognizes that contributes to our worldview and that it tempers our view of other people's opinions and views. We all haven't had the same experiences or exposure.

 

 

Pretty sure JJ is my second account. Grew up in Columbus, lived in Lincoln and Greeley.

 

The problem with this "problem" is it doesn't seem like there's an equitable solution. Both sides of the argument have valid points.

 

 

 

Also from Columbus, went to college in Wayne for a while, moved to Lincoln for two years, then Atlanta, now Chicago

[AR Husker Fan]

Justice Department challenges North Carolina transgender law

[Moiraine]

I actually saw the NC law in an article now. Why the hell are the media (and in turn, us) obsessing over the bathroom part? Um, this part is just a tad more important:

 

"It also stops cities from passing anti-discrimination ordinances to protect gay and transgender people."

 

This is worse than the Nebraska (or maybe it was just Omaha) version but it reminds me of the law Ron Brown fought by using his weight saying he lived at Memorial Stadium. The one where gays just wanted protection from being fired solely for being gay.

[NM11046]

I actually saw the NC law in an article now. Why the hell are the media (and in turn, us) obsessing over the bathroom part? Um, this part is just a tad more important:

 

"It also stops cities from passing anti-discrimination ordinances to protect gay and transgender people."

 

This is worse than the Nebraska (or maybe it was just Omaha) version but it reminds me of the law Ron Brown fought by using his weight saying he lived at Memorial Stadium. The one where gays just wanted protection from being fired solely for being gay.

I heard an interview today and said the "law" was drafted and they only gave 10 mins or something to call folks in to the session, they had zero time to review prior to voting, and in retrospect no time to prepare a rebuttal or push back or questions. Obviously the bathroom issue is a tiny bit of the overall ruling which is just embarrassing.

[Scratchtown]

As a newly signed teacher for the 2016/17 school year. I'm ashamed of what is taking place.

 

Here we go again.....Round 2

 

 

 

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is planning to issue a sweeping directive telling every public school district in the country to allow transgender students to use the bathrooms that match their gender identity.

A letter to school districts will go out Friday, fueling a highly charged debate over transgender rights in the middle of the administration’s legal fight with North Carolina over the issue. The declaration — signed by Justice and Education Department officials — will describe what schools should do to ensure that none of their students are discriminated against.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/05/13/us/politics/obama-administration-to-issue-decree-on-transgender-access-to-school-restrooms.html?_r=0&referer

[knapplc]

We all know high school boys won't abuse this, and there won't be any problems, because boys that age always think rationally and never with their penis. So no worries.

[Scratchtown]

We all know high school boys won't abuse this, and there won't be any problems, because boys that age always think rationally and never with their penis. So no worries.

Senior boys allowed in the same restroom/locker as 9th grade girls...or younger. Heaven forbid...male teachers/coaches that are sick in the head into those same places.

 

I would LOVE to see someone rationalize this one. I was fine with the Target thing, but this is the slippery slope JJ and I were talking about. That no one wanted to address. People wanted studies to justify not doing this.

 

This is PC culture and where it leads. What are you going to tell your daughters?

[The Dude]

What a time to be alive.

[C N Red]

Cant wait to see how raging hormonal teenage high schoolers take advantage of this. It would have been chaos when i was in high school. Bfs/gfs taking full advantage of being able to hook up in school.