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22 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

Exhibit A on why our gun laws are an international embarrassment. 

 

We shouldn't argue with people like this. Progressives need to do what we've always done, pass a law and make it illegal to own guns. We'll drag you kicking and screaming to the right side of history (again).

 

Don't worry, I'm sure conservatives will find something else to tie your masculine identity to in order to garner your vote. 

I'm not a conservative lol 

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4 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

They won't be in circulation if they're outlawed.

 

4 hours ago, Hedley Lamarr said:

They won't be turned in....

None is the answer. 

 

This exchange right here is exactly why the two sides will never be able to agree. One side wants to take your guns (certain guns at the very least) and the other side is not willing to give them up. If people on both sides could/would moderate a bit, we might be able to make some progress on the issue.

 

I understand both sides very well. I would like to see lots of common sense things done to curtail these senseless tragedies. But..... I have a 12 gauge shotgun, a 9MM handgun and an AR-15. Honestly I would be just fine giving up my AR (I've only had since the rioting and the beginning of the pandemic).....if this country and world wasn't so effed up, but it is and I'm not. Realistically I can defend myself, home and family with just the handgun and shotgun. But if things got way out of hand and it truly became a kill or be killed situation, the AR would be the go to choice. I really think that is what this issue boils down to. I use the shotgun for hunting birds and waterfowl and occasionally shooting clay pigeons and a self defense option. The handgun is strictly for home and self defense. The AR is very fun to shoot but it's main purpose is kind of an ultimate feeling of being able to match fire power in a worst case scenario. So, like I said, it's kind of a stretch to willingly give that up when it is a known fact that even if that style gun is outlawed, there will always be some people (criminals, law enforcement and the government-military) that will still have them. I'm not a gun nut, an NRA member or supporter and am not opposed to fairly extreme efforts to keep guns out of the wrong hands. But no, I'm not very receptive to anyone taking MY gun(s). I don't really have a problem with them being taken from others. Just being honest in an attempt to maybe help others understand another side of the issue.

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22 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

This exchange right here is exactly why the two sides will never be able to agree. One side wants to take your guns (certain guns at the very least) and the other side is not willing to give them up. If people on both sides could/would moderate a bit, we might be able to make some progress on the issue.

 

Hi. I'm trying to be reasonable. One side says all guns, all the time, for everyone, everywhere. More guns, in fact.

 

The other side (my side) says let's be reasonable. Some guns are not appropriate for a reasonable society. Let's not have every gun, everywhere. More guns are the problem.

 

So I asked, which guns are not reasonable? Which guns should we exclude from a reasonable society?

 

And the answer was "none."

 

And that is why this is an unreasonable conversation. Not because some of us want to have a normal human society with normal human guidelines - but because some people will not listen to reason.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Hi. I'm trying to be reasonable. One side says all guns, all the time, for everyone, everywhere. More guns, in fact.

 

The other side (my side) says let's be reasonable. Some guns are not appropriate for a reasonable society. Let's not have every gun, everywhere. More guns are the problem.

 

So I asked, which guns are not reasonable? Which guns should we exclude from a reasonable society?

 

And the answer was "none."

 

And that is why this is an unreasonable conversation. Not because some of us want to have a normal human society with normal human guidelines - but because some people will not listen to reason.

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly with that. It was not my intention to paint you with the “coming for your guns” brush. I was just trying to highlight that there is significant population that will stick their fingers in their ears at the very mention of any gun ban. And then I tried to explain (probably very poorly) how I find myself on both sides of the fence.

 

I agree that easy access to these weapons of mass killing is the primary problem. It is clearly the one issue that sets us apart from the rest of the world. But I also acknowledge that I’m not willingly giving up my guns as long as the crazies and criminals in this country can still get a hold of them. I and the vast majority of responsible gun owners are not the problem so I am hesitant to start correcting this problem by punishing responsible, law abiding citizens. I want to see a much more thorough  effort at keeping them out of the wrong hands before we go there.

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2 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

I agree wholeheartedly with that. It was not my intention to paint you with the “coming for your guns” brush. I was just trying to highlight that there is significant population that will stick their fingers in their ears at the very mention of any gun ban. And then I tried to explain (probably very poorly) how I find myself on both sides of the fence.

 

I agree that easy access to these weapons of mass killing is the primary problem. It is clearly the one issue that sets us apart from the rest of the world. But I also acknowledge that I’m not willingly giving up my guns as long as the crazies and criminals in this country can still get a hold of them. I and the vast majority of responsible gun owners are not the problem so I am hesitant to start correcting this problem by punishing responsible, law abiding citizens. I want to see some effort at keeping them out of the wrong hands before we go there.

 

I like guns. They're fun, they're cool, and I wish I could enjoy shooting without fear of consequences.

 

But I'm a reasonable person, and I would never use my gun for harm.

 

Unfortunately, that's not the case for everyone. So I'm willing to give up my gun for the sake of the betterment of society.

 

Let's say there was a rash of intentional vehicular homicide. Just rando D-bags using their cars as weapons. Driving up on sidewalks killing random people to the extent that we cannot reasonably feel safe just walking from here to there.

 

A reasonable person would say, "I am a responsible driver, and I would never use my car that way. But I recognize there's a plague of people irresponsibly using cars to harm society. So I will give up my car."

 

In my city, I could take the bus, or (pretty reasonably) a cab or Uber. So my life wouldn't be drastically impacted. In rural areas, this isn't feasible, because people need to be able to drive to town, or wherever there aren't buses or cabs. So many of them would necessarily need to keep their cars. It's a reasonable compromise.

 

That's what we're talking about here. Reasonably, most people in this country could give up their guns and their lives would have minor impact. In rural areas, hunters would need to have hunting guns to keep rural roadways safe and to preserve crops.

 

I feel like a reasonable society would make that sacrifice for the betterment of everyone. But we can clearly see we don't live in a reasonable society. People are not willing to make even the slightest sacrifice for the betterment of us all.

 

 

 

 

 

And the replies to this post will prove that truth. "Yeah, but..." ad infinitum.

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23 minutes ago, knapplc said:

I like guns. They're fun, they're cool, and I wish I could enjoy shooting without fear of consequences.

 

This is where I'm at with all this. They are both fun and cool. But they're not necessary, and our society would be safer as a whole with a lot fewer of them floating around. 

 

But giving them up makes people to think about who will still have them and no one is into unilateral disarmament. 

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1 hour ago, JJ Husker said:

 

 

This exchange right here is exactly why the two sides will never be able to agree. One side wants to take your guns (certain guns at the very least) and the other side is not willing to give them up. If people on both sides could/would moderate a bit, we might be able to make some progress on the issue.

 

I understand both sides very well. I would like to see lots of common sense things done to curtail these senseless tragedies. But..... I have a 12 gauge shotgun, a 9MM handgun and an AR-15. Honestly I would be just fine giving up my AR (I've only had since the rioting and the beginning of the pandemic).....if this country and world wasn't so effed up, but it is and I'm not. Realistically I can defend myself, home and family with just the handgun and shotgun. But if things got way out of hand and it truly became a kill or be killed situation, the AR would be the go to choice. I really think that is what this issue boils down to. I use the shotgun for hunting birds and waterfowl and occasionally shooting clay pigeons and a self defense option. The handgun is strictly for home and self defense. The AR is very fun to shoot but it's main purpose is kind of an ultimate feeling of being able to match fire power in a worst case scenario. So, like I said, it's kind of a stretch to willingly give that up when it is a known fact that even if that style gun is outlawed, there will always be some people (criminals, law enforcement and the government-military) that will still have them. I'm not a gun nut, an NRA member or supporter and am not opposed to fairly extreme efforts to keep guns out of the wrong hands. But no, I'm not very receptive to anyone taking MY gun(s). I don't really have a problem with them being taken from others. Just being honest in an attempt to maybe help others understand another side of the issue.

JJ, just curious why the pandemic and “rioting” drove you to get an AR-15. You say it’s “fun to shoot” but why do people feel the need to have a gun which is so powerful?  Also, don’t you live in Greeley? What about the past year made you so fearful, that you feel you needed a gun like the AR-15.

 

I am not trying to be a d!(k here. I am honestly curious. I am not a gun guy. I have never shot a gun in my life. As a non-gun guy, I am curious why people feel the need to carry such powerful weapons. Not judging, just generally curious. 

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7 hours ago, ColoradoHusk said:

JJ, just curious why the pandemic and “rioting” drove you to get an AR-15. You say it’s “fun to shoot” but why do people feel the need to have a gun which is so powerful?  Also, don’t you live in Greeley? What about the past year made you so fearful, that you feel you needed a gun like the AR-15.

 

I am not trying to be a d!(k here. I am honestly curious. I am not a gun guy. I have never shot a gun in my life. As a non-gun guy, I am curious why people feel the need to carry such powerful weapons. Not judging, just generally curious. 

I wouldn't use powerful as the way in which to describe the AR15. The .223/5.56 round that it uses is nothing special. It is lightweight, easy to maneuver with, low recoil, easy and quick to reload. It is precisely why I have one in my home because my wife can easily use it if it is needed. At night it would be what I would grab first.

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9 hours ago, JJ Husker said:

 

 

This exchange right here is exactly why the two sides will never be able to agree. One side wants to take your guns (certain guns at the very least) and the other side is not willing to give them up. If people on both sides could/would moderate a bit, we might be able to make some progress on the issue.

 

I understand both sides very well. I would like to see lots of common sense things done to curtail these senseless tragedies. But..... I have a 12 gauge shotgun, a 9MM handgun and an AR-15. Honestly I would be just fine giving up my AR (I've only had since the rioting and the beginning of the pandemic).....if this country and world wasn't so effed up, but it is and I'm not. Realistically I can defend myself, home and family with just the handgun and shotgun. But if things got way out of hand and it truly became a kill or be killed situation, the AR would be the go to choice. I really think that is what this issue boils down to. I use the shotgun for hunting birds and waterfowl and occasionally shooting clay pigeons and a self defense option. The handgun is strictly for home and self defense. The AR is very fun to shoot but it's main purpose is kind of an ultimate feeling of being able to match fire power in a worst case scenario. So, like I said, it's kind of a stretch to willingly give that up when it is a known fact that even if that style gun is outlawed, there will always be some people (criminals, law enforcement and the government-military) that will still have them. I'm not a gun nut, an NRA member or supporter and am not opposed to fairly extreme efforts to keep guns out of the wrong hands. But no, I'm not very receptive to anyone taking MY gun(s). I don't really have a problem with them being taken from others. Just being honest in an attempt to maybe help others understand another side of the issue.

You hit on several great points. I'm not opposed to additional regulations around improved background checks, looking at ways in which to properly carry out red flag laws etc. I'm simply unwilling to hand in my firearms until our elected officials security hands them in. I'm also against several of these ideas around requiring insurance and annual license fees etc as that simply allows the rich to be armed and the poor to be disarmed. 

I'd love to actually address a multitude of issues that exist prior to taking away law abiding citizens guns. We haven't even come close to exhausting those options. 

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5 minutes ago, Hedley Lamarr said:

I wouldn't use powerful as the way in which to describe the AR15. The .223/5.56 round that it uses is nothing special. It is lightweight, easy to maneuver with, low recoil, easy and quick to reload. It is precisely why I have one in my home because my wife can easily use it if it is needed. At night it would be what I would grab first.

Fair enough, and that shows my lack of knowledge on the subject, so I appreciate the additional info. I am still just curious why you need this type of weapon for “self defense”?

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1 hour ago, Hedley Lamarr said:

I wouldn't use powerful as the way in which to describe the AR15. The .223/5.56 round that it uses is nothing special. It is lightweight, easy to maneuver with, low recoil, easy and quick to reload. It is precisely why I have one in my home because my wife can easily use it if it is needed. At night it would be what I would grab first.

 

You just described why we'd be a lot safer with fewer of these in circulation.

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1 hour ago, ColoradoHusk said:

Fair enough, and that shows my lack of knowledge on the subject, so I appreciate the additional info. I am still just curious why you need this type of weapon for “self defense”?

 

I would think a handgun would be far more useful in a home invasion scenario. That rifle in a hallway is constricting in a way a handgun isn't.

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