Gun Control

[BigRedBuster]

30 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

I noticed Canada’s flag on there.   US has by far the most gun ownership per capita of any country.  It’s actually a little less than 4 times that of Canada.  Yet the gun death rate in US is 7 times that of Canada.   It should be 4 times if all else equal.  So we need to also figure out what else is going on that contributes to a higher per capita death rate from guns (suicide?) 
 

 

Yes, I agree that there are multiple factors that lead to these statistics.  It's not a simple answer.  But, to act like the number of guns we have in this country and who is owning them isn't a major factor, is sticking your head in the sand.

 

On top of the number of guns, I strongly feel that the gun culture in our society is a major problem.  If anyone steps back and seriously looks at it, it's weird and makes no sense.  This whole thought process that somehow you and everyone around you is safer because you have a gun on you or you own lots of guns.....is just idiotic.  And...I feel it adds to the death toll.

 

I own guns.  I look at them as a tool that I use to hunt with or kill varmints that cause problems around my property.  I don't view them as...."oh....I'm so safe because I own 5 guns".  In fact, I take gun safety very seriously and actually, I would probably feel at least a little safer for everyone if they weren't in my house.  If I had anyone in my family that I was concerned about that didn't understand and take gun safety seriously, then I would get rid of them.  And, I wouldn't feel like my constitutional rights were trampled on.

[nic]

18 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

Yeah, those officers were very precise.   The body cam footage shows them working very well together.   

Article on the difference came out today. 
 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/29/us/nashville-uvalde-police-body-camera-response/index.html

 

outside door  was locked but she was able to shoot through it.

 Killing the janitor. The students were apparently barricaded in well.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/30/us/covenant-school-shooting-nashville-tennessee-thursday/index.html

[NM11046]

https://elections.bradyunited.org/take-action/nra-donations-116th-congress-senators?fbclid=IwAR1glqB6zIzFSY9Hxzkl-LJCF79RoEmQG5Vj9le4StMa-Gc43oI6Kcj-A6E

 

Call yours up!!

[NM11046]

dup

[Archy1221]

28 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

37 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Yes, I agree that there are multiple factors that lead to these statistics.  It's not a simple answer.  But, to act like the number of guns we have in this country and who is owning them isn't a major factor, is sticking your head in the sand

And this paragraph folks, is one of the reasons nothing ever gets done on the situation.  
 

I literally just explained to you the prevalence of guns compared to Canada, spoke about the higher death toll, made a point that the higher prevalence of gun ownership SHOULD lead to a higher death toll, but the US is unfortunately  exceeding what the numbers say they statistically should be if all else were equal.  I said we should look at other things too.   Ya know chew gum and walk at the same time.  
 

Kinda thought we might be on the same page a bit and you come blazing with the, acting like the number of guns isn’t a major factor and sticking my head in the sand take.  REALLY!  As if I didn’t just insinuate that

[NM11046]

WaPo Article gifted - more than 376 school shootings since Columbine.  And the rates in 2022 were the highest yet.

 

https://wapo.st/3zlmK4O

 

Check out the trend ... take out the covid year when no kids were in school and there's a spike starting in 2016.  Violent rhetoric has ramifications. 

[Dr. Strangelove]

19 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

And this paragraph folks, is one of the reasons nothing ever gets done on the situation.  
 

I literally just explained to you the prevalence of guns compared to Canada, spoke about the higher death toll, made a point that the higher prevalence of gun ownership SHOULD lead to a higher death toll, but the US is unfortunately  exceeding what the numbers say they statistically should be if all else were equal.  I said we should look at other things too.   Ya know chew gum and walk at the same time.  
 

Kinda thought we might be on the same page a bit and you come blazing with the, acting like the number of guns isn’t a major factor and sticking my head in the sand take.  REALLY!  As if I didn’t just insinuate that

I think you're both into something, you're both correct. The number of guns we have plays a role, but also the American attitude towards guns tends to be less about hunting and more about "protection".

 

It's sort of an active attitude towards firearms: they are there to be used as a protective tool. What constitutes "protection" leads to very lose gun laws, allowing individuals purchasing guns when they should have no business doing so. 

[NM11046]

I think the crux is that a lot of gun owning folks seem to think they need "protecting" from people and situations that aren't a threat.  

 

And what is worthy of protecting honestly .... Are cars and possessions worth protecting?  Is someone encroaching on your property line worthy of murder?  I get it if someone is coming into the house, but you'd have to show me data that it's a common occurance, or that that's when these shootings happen (it isn't).

 

I was robbed at gunpoint, I saw what was coming just like they say, in slow motion and my gut told me something was off before the perp and those in his car approached us.  Even knowing what was going on, there wasn't time or ability to use a gun to protect myself. So I have significant doubts that any random person with a gun would be able to utilize it.  It's why we hear of very few situations where the "good guy with a gun" saves the day.  

[BigRedBuster]

32 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

And this paragraph folks, is one of the reasons nothing ever gets done on the situation.  
 

I literally just explained to you the prevalence of guns compared to Canada, spoke about the higher death toll, made a point that the higher prevalence of gun ownership SHOULD lead to a higher death toll, but the US is unfortunately  exceeding what the numbers say they statistically should be if all else were equal.  I said we should look at other things too.   Ya know chew gum and walk at the same time.  
 

Kinda thought we might be on the same page a bit and you come blazing with the, acting like the number of guns isn’t a major factor and sticking my head in the sand take.  REALLY!  As if I didn’t just insinuate that

We are on the same page.  I wasn't necessarily talking about you in that paragraph.  Sorry if it appeared that way.

 

But, there are lots of other people who believe the number of guns has nothing to do with the problem.  In fact, there are lots of people who believe we need MORE guns.

[DefenderAO]

1 hour ago, ZRod said:

Where I derive my morals from hardly seems relevant to you touting your moral superiority. It would seem that you are the one who needs to disclose your source so we can finally understand where you're coming from.

Similar to Lorewarn, who mentions a Cosmic Christ (not certain its full meaning), I've looked heavily in to Christ's teachings in the Bible.  Statements like the Way, Truth, and Life and the following declarative of how to know God remind me of a CS Lewis quote (paraphrased) - Christ is either a liar, lunatic, or legitimate.  Which one?  

[DefenderAO]

32 minutes ago, NM11046 said:

I think the crux is that a lot of gun owning folks seem to think they need "protecting" from people and situations that aren't a threat.  

 

And what is worthy of protecting honestly .... Are cars and possessions worth protecting?  Is someone encroaching on your property line worthy of murder?  I get it if someone is coming into the house, but you'd have to show me data that it's a common occurance, or that that's when these shootings happen (it isn't).

 

I was robbed at gunpoint, I saw what was coming just like they say, in slow motion and my gut told me something was off before the perp and those in his car approached us.  Even knowing what was going on, there wasn't time or ability to use a gun to protect myself. So I have significant doubts that any random person with a gun would be able to utilize it.  It's why we hear of very few situations where the "good guy with a gun" saves the day.  

For your first point, you never know when you'll need protection from a perp.  You never need to defend anything...until you do.  Better to have the means to avoid being a victim, never need it, than to need it one time and be without.  The police are 5-10 minutes away when you have seconds to act.  

 

State laws help define what is justified force for particular issues.  Our judicial system is far from perfect, but it can be a starting point.

 

I'm guessing you weren't carrying when robbed.  Your gut wisely gave you the cue.  Do you believe that could've helped you?  I don't know your firearms experience or where you live, but some states might prosecute you in a scenario like that.  Not necessarily a guilty verdict, but the civil court follow up, emotional challenges to what happened etc etc are relevant.

[DefenderAO]

49 minutes ago, Dr. Strangelove said:

I think you're both into something, you're both correct. The number of guns we have plays a role, but also the American attitude towards guns tends to be less about hunting and more about "protection".

 

It's sort of an active attitude towards firearms: they are there to be used as a protective tool. What constitutes "protection" leads to very lose gun laws, allowing individuals purchasing guns when they should have no business doing so. 

State laws give guardrails for use of force in a slew of situations.  They do not address the mental and emotional fitness of the "defender."  

 

And to bring back up, there is an extreme cultural issue we have in this country that pervades multiple inner cities.  This is not a race thing.  It's a culture thing.  

[DefenderAO]

41 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

We are on the same page.  I wasn't necessarily talking about you in that paragraph.  Sorry if it appeared that way.

 

But, there are lots of other people who believe the number of guns has nothing to do with the problem.  In fact, there are lots of people who believe we need MORE guns.

I'm curious to your thought here, both of us baselined as one shooting and one death is too much.  Because every one of them is a tragedy.

 

Generally - there are 150 million adults age 20-54 in the US right now.  We're closing in on day 90 of CY '23.  That's about 13.5 trillion people-days opportunities for shootings to occur year to date.   By the end of next week that's another 900 million more opportunities, roughly.

 

This tells me the vast (understatement) majority have no means, will, or intent of doing so.  Then the data says that the plurality of shootings involve handguns.  

 

All of it is too much.  Frankly, I'm surprised (and grateful) it's not more.

[Guy Chamberlin]

9 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

Why do you keep asking everyone else when you're unwilling to answer for yourself? My baseline for truth is rooted in god and the cosmic Christ, but is a boots-on-the-ground best guess glimpse at best. I'm just one human following in a long line of humans going through new iterations and updates over millenia trying to inch closer and closer to that which is unknowable. I see truth as a beautiful gem, that is real, but every time you turn it and look at it a different way it reveals things that are new and different, it obstructs things you saw before, and is forever re-shaping our vision in unexpected ways.

 

Yes, I perceive truth has changed. Because it has. But even if it hasn't, I am nothing more than my perception, and we are nothing more than our perception, so the functional difference between the truth and our perception of the truth is non-existent. You can wax poetic about how The Truth Is Out There, but if there are things that the absolute best of our kind held true for thousands of years that ended up not being true, well, it doesn't really do a lot of practical good clutching to that pearl so tightly does it? Other than give you and I some fleeting comfort.

 

This is a wonderfully written and well considered post. Thanks for the effort. Sometimes it's worth it. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

18 minutes ago, DefenderAO said:

State laws give guardrails for use of force in a slew of situations.  They do not address the mental and emotional fitness of the "defender."  

 

And to bring back up, there is an extreme cultural issue we have in this country that pervades multiple inner cities.  This is not a race thing.  It's a culture thing.  

 

Surely you know that everything from opioid addiction, to unwanted children, to mental health, to mass shooting are not inner city problem but everywhere problems. If you can choose a time in America when you believe there was less moral decay, you will find many of the same cultural issues (and more) that were simply not talked about.