Gun Control

[Scarlet]

24 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

I see what your saying.  The headline was wrong and misleading.  The video shows per 1 million.  My apologies 

It's ok to be wrong bro.  

 

You didn't even have to watch the video.  They first chart clearly says "homicides by firearm per 1 million people".

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

The only way this is going to be addressed is if the gun industry is forced to address it.  The only way that happens is if when situations like this happens, it negatively affects them. 

 

Unfortunately, they are the ones who have funded the NRA for years putting out a certain narrative that gun owners have latched on to.  They've used the NRA to protect themselves politically.  As a law abiding gun owner, I don't understand why people like me get offended when discussing gun issues.  But, so many have fallen for the gun industry/NRA narrative.  

[Enhance]

19 minutes ago, knapplc said:

The outlier is the amount of guns in America, the types of guns that are legal, and the ease with which we can obtain them. 

Absolutely, and I would just point out an interwoven outlier: the overall gun culture.

 

We have millions of Americans who treat them like they're a personality trait. They hoard them. They display them like family photos. They covet them. We have people that have never served in the military or law enforcement that buy tactical gear, play dress up and stand on street corners like a soldier. It is uncommon to see this kind of gun obsession in other advanced first world countries like we see it in America.

 

Guns aren't like comic books or fantasy novels, video games or woodworking. They're designed to kill. Full stop.

 

I've shot guns. Yeah, it's fun. We even own a couple. But I've never understood the infatuation with them and I would just as soon get rid of them if I knew the rest of the country was committed to doing the same.

[Scarlet]

16 minutes ago, Enhance said:

Absolutely, and I would just point out an interwoven outlier: the overall gun culture.

 

We have millions of Americans who treat them like they're a personality trait. They hoard them. They display them like family photos. They covet them. We have people that have never served in the military or law enforcement that buy tactical gear, play dress up and stand on street corners like a soldier. It is uncommon to see this kind of gun obsession in other advanced first world countries like we see it in America.

 

Guns aren't like comic books or fantasy novels, video games or woodworking. They're designed to kill. Full stop.

 

I've shot guns. Yeah, it's fun. We even own a couple. But I've never understood the infatuation with them and I would just as soon get rid of them if I knew the rest of the country was committed to doing the same.

To the bolded I was traveling through a remote section of northern Laos about 10 or 12 years ago when I ran into a group of Aussies on the road coming to the opposite direction.  Of course we stopped to chat.  This was after one of our mass shootings.  I can't remember which one which is an indication of the problem itself. 

 

But the first thing out of their mouths when they found out I was American was "what hell is up with you guys and your obsession with guns??".   They were just mystified by why we all feel they need to pack heat.  I couldn't answer.  Just shrugged my shoulders and continued on my way.  With no weapons by the way.  

[funhusker]

22 minutes ago, Enhance said:

Absolutely, and I would just point out an interwoven outlier: the overall gun culture.

 

We have millions of Americans who treat them like they're a personality trait. They hoard them. They display them like family photos. They covet them. We have people that have never served in the military or law enforcement that buy tactical gear, play dress up and stand on street corners like a soldier. It is uncommon to see this kind of gun obsession in other advanced first world countries like we see it in America.

 

Guns aren't like comic books or fantasy novels, video games or woodworking. They're designed to kill. Full stop.

 

I've shot guns. Yeah, it's fun. We even own a couple. But I've never understood the infatuation with them and I would just as soon get rid of them if I knew the rest of the country was committed to doing the same.

This would be an interesting national poll question.  I have a feeling this is a common feeling.  I know it's been said in my extended family that are avid outdoors people and tend to fall on the "right" side of the political spectrum.  Their concern is that they live mostly in rural areas and would be worried about not being able to protect themselves if someone came on to their place.  I don't blame them for that at all, I would guess the quickest response time they could hope for in the middle of the night would be 15-20 minutes...

[GSG]

28 minutes ago, Enhance said:

Absolutely, and I would just point out an interwoven outlier: the overall gun culture.

 

We have millions of Americans who treat them like they're a personality trait. They hoard them. They display them like family photos. They covet them. We have people that have never served in the military or law enforcement that buy tactical gear, play dress up and stand on street corners like a soldier. It is uncommon to see this kind of gun obsession in other advanced first world countries like we see it in America.

 

Guns aren't like comic books or fantasy novels, video games or woodworking. They're designed to kill. Full stop.

 

I've shot guns. Yeah, it's fun. We even own a couple. But I've never understood the infatuation with them and I would just as soon get rid of them if I knew the rest of the country was committed to doing the same.

 

You're crazy man! There's no issues with gun culture!

 

[BigRedBuster]

38 minutes ago, GSG said:

 

You're crazy man! There's no issues with gun culture!

 

 

That last one boggles my mind.  Obviously, if you read the one on the right, you would understand the sticker isn't what the book teaches.

[Enhance]

32 minutes ago, funhusker said:

Their concern is that they live mostly in rural areas and would be worried about not being able to protect themselves if someone came on to their place.  I don't blame them for that at all, I would guess the quickest response time they could hope for in the middle of the night would be 15-20 minutes...

I think that would be an example of someone who has a reasonable need for a gun and would still be able to get one after a stringent process, particularly since farmers/ranchers have to worry about mountain lions and coyotes on their properties. A hunting rifle/shotgun makes perfect sense for that kind of individual.

 

In first world countries with far more strict gun laws, they make similar exceptions for the hunters/farmers/ranchers of the world, so I'm OK with that.

 

It's the relative ease of access to guns overall and the overall gun culture in this country that truly need addressing.

[Scarlet]

 

[Ratt Mhule]

3 hours ago, Hedley Lamarr said:

Why don't we simply address the actual issue of mental health? By all accounts this guys family said he was nuts, he had no business owning any kind of firearm and was a danger to both himself and others. There is nothing special about an AR-15 other than it looks scary in comparison to a multitude of other firearm options that just as easily could have taken the same toll in a supermarket. Violence is a symptom of the society we have created. You take away the scary looking AR and you are left with a multitude of things that can still inflict massive amounts of casualties. Why don't we stop sending money overseas and paying for political pet projects and actually direct those tax dollars to helping education and mental health for starters here in the US. I know this is far too radical and it is far easy to scream for assault weapon bans that statistically did practically nothing to reduce gun violence in the US. 

Because mental health is a part of healthcare and nobody wants to do s#!t about healthcare either. Just another reason for universal healthcare so people could get the help they need without worrying about of they can afford it. The NRA, insurance companies and big pharma own our government. That is the issue, not necessarily people owning guns. 

[Ratt Mhule]

2 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

Because every nation has people with mental health issues, but America has a unique gun violence issue.

 

It's not mental health. It's the guns.

 

 

Well, they also have universal healthcare so people with mental health issues can actually get the help they need without going bankrupt. 

[Enhance]

'Mental health' is certainly a part of the problem, just as much as our gun culture is. But it's a nebulous issue without a clear cut answer. What type of mental health are we discussing? What factors weigh into determining whether or not someone will carry out a mass shooting, suicide or murder? Do you draft legislation that says people with certain diagnosable mental health diseases can't get a gun? How do you stop the people that aren't diagnosed from getting one?

 

Americans don't carry out mass shootings, or shoot themselves or another just by our nature. We do so largely because guns are laughably accessible and we have a cultural obsession with them. You're probably not going to fix the culture and the obsession overnight, but you can absolutely eliminate supply and make it far more difficult to acquire one.

[Omaha-Husker]

Here are the other mass shootings in 2021 with at least 4 killed that didn't seem to get the national press of Boulder and Atlanta. Just women and children being shot in their homes nothing to see here.

 

February 2	Muskogee	Oklahoma	6	1	7	2021 Muskogee shooting: Five children and one adult were shot and killed, and one other adult suffered life-threatening injuries, after a home shooting in Oklahoma. Jarron Deajon Pridgeon, age 25, was charged with the murders of the victims (his adult brother and five children).[91][92]
January 24	Indianapolis (1)	Indiana	6[n 2]	1	7	Six people including an unborn baby were killed and a teen was injured in a shooting at a house on the northeast side of Indianapolis. The teen suspect (Raymond Childs III) is currently in custody. [101]
January 9	Chicago (1) and Evanston	Illinois	6[n 1]	2	8	A shooting that started in Chicago ended in Evanston left five people dead and two injured before the shooter, 32-year-old Jason Nightengale, was shot and killed by police.[113]
March 16	Phoenix (3)	Arizona	4	1	5	Four people died after a shooting at a home. One man was injured and is expected to survive.[25]
March 13	Indianapolis (3)	Indiana	4	1	5	Police found a woman who had been shot and learned there may be other victims at a different home. Police arrived at the home and found four dead, including a child.[34]
February 28	Cincinnati	Ohio	4[n 1]	2	6	A man shot and killed his wife and two others, wounding a fourth. He was later shot and injured by police in Detroit and was taken to a nearby hospital and died days later.[50] [51]

[Hedley Lamarr]

3 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

Because every nation has people with mental health issues, but America has a unique gun violence issue.

 

It's not mental health. It's the guns.

 

 

How do we compare regarding ethnical and socioeconomic by group to these other countries? Do you think this person or others would have created mass murder via other ways if not for a gun? Maybe a pressure cooker at the next event. Drive their car into a crowd? How did the assault weapons ban work when we tried it for a decade? 

[NUance]

2 hours ago, Scarlet said:

It's ok to be wrong bro.  

 

You didn't even have to watch the video.  They first chart clearly says "homicides by firearm per 1 million people".

 

 

 

 

When you see stats like those from the Vox chart LINK do you ever stop and wonder why they are presented in the manner that they are?  If you glance at this colorful Vox graphic is appears that guns cause Americans to go around committing homicides.  

 

But then I wondered:  What percentage of homicides are gun homicides in the U.S.?  That led me to wonder: How does that compare to the other countries on the Vox chart?  The answer is below:  (The first column is from Vox.  The second column is total homicides per million population.)

 

Homicides           Guns     Total      % guns

United States     29.7        49.6        60%

Switzerland        5.9          7.7          77%

Belgium                17.0       6.8          40%

Luxembourg      3.0          6.2          48%

Canada                 17.6       5.1          29%

Ireland                  8.7          4.8          55%  (I had to compile these stats by hand--so I didn't do all the countries on the Vox chart) 

 

In the U.S. we have a lot of murders for a first world country.  A LOT! Over 6X as many as Switzerland, the next highest country on the Vox chart.  And we have more gun murders than most first world countries.  But not 400% more like the Vox chart would lead you to believe.   Considering the ease with which you can get a gun in the U.S. it's surprising our gun homicide rate (60%) is roughly the same as Ireland (55%) and only a bit more than Luxembourg (48%).

 

Given this, would you say the Vox chart is misleading?  Sadly, most people look at a chart like this and reach the conclusion it was intended to convey. 

 

(Note:  I used wiki as a source of data for total murders:  LINK )