A man you can bait with a Tweet

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, ActualCornHusker said:

 

If Trump truly did something against the law, then impeach him. But let's hold everyone else to the same standard. Until we hold ALL people accountable, regardless of side, we'll continue to see the joke of a highly partisan circus that we have now. Can you name a modern president that was not highly corrupt?

But...not voting for Hillary because of corruption but then turning a blind eye to Trump's corruption because he has an "R" beside his name is pathetic.  We are seeing people like Rand Paul doing gymnastics trying to justify his support for Trump.

 

My opinion is that...fine....we didn't vote for Hillary because of corruption, now let's take care of the corruption in the office.  Send a message to others because if we don't, each one will keep getting worse.  My opinion also is that we already are seeing worse than what we didn't vote for.

[Ulty]

So, for quite some time we have been asking Trump supporters to defend their positions. Is this the new game plan for Trumpers? Pretend like you don't support him, but try to stymie any actual discussion with whataboutism and false equivalencies? 

[ActualCornHusker]

17 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

But...not voting for Hillary because of corruption but then turning a blind eye to Trump's corruption because he has an "R" beside his name is pathetic.  We are seeing people like Rand Paul doing gymnastics trying to justify his support for Trump.

 

My opinion is that...fine....we didn't vote for Hillary because of corruption, now let's take care of the corruption in the office.  Send a message to others because if we don't, each one will keep getting worse.  My opinion also is that we already are seeing worse than what we didn't vote for.

 

The problem with using this Ukraine phone call as grounds for impeachment are this:

*The nature of the matter could easily implicate Biden, Obama, etc. just as much if not more than Trump.

*With all the questions surrounding Biden & his son in Ukraine, many people see no problem with Trump asking Ukraine to help look into it... Honestly, if roles were reversed, and it were Eric Trump being paid just short of $1,000,000 a year, Trump running for President, and President Biden called Ukraine to ask for help investigating candidate Trump... You think we'd be dealing with the amount of outrage that we're currently seeing?

[QMany]

1 hour ago, ActualCornHusker said:

 

And therein lies the problem: How can Republicans trust that Dems will be willing to hold their own side accountable in the future when needed? Because they haven't done so yet... I want to be perfectly clear: I'm not defending anything - I'm simply pointing out the nuance of this situation...

 

So the choices that staunch Republicans have are as follows:

1) Stand behind Trump & don't support the impeachment

OR

2) Support the impeachment in hopes that Dems will do the same when their own party is in power. Doing this runs the risk of Dems then being able to point the finger at the GOP as the party of slime and run with that in all elections throughout the country. 

 

Here's the only way forward: If they're going to impeach Trump and try to convict him for colluding with a foreign power, then Biden, Obama, and Hillary need to be tried right alongside him for being guilty of the same offense...

 

This whataboutism  (variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which in the United States is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda) is frightening and/or disingenuous. 

 

If there was any scintilla of evidence, the GOP-controlled Senate, House, and White House (with the DOJ doing their private-bidding) would have made hay prosecuting during Trump's first two years. There was nothing there there, so what do they do? The IG quietly reports no Clinton criminal wrongdoing and Trump has his personal attorney run back-channel covert propaganda operations against Biden. 

[knapplc]

1 hour ago, ActualCornHusker said:

How can Republicans trust that Dems will be willing to hold their own side accountable in the future when needed?

 

Al Franken says hello.

 

Katie Hill says hello.

[Nebfanatic]

12 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said:

 

The problem with using this Ukraine phone call as grounds for impeachment are this:

*The nature of the matter could easily implicate Biden, Obama, etc. just as much if not more than Trump.

*With all the questions surrounding Biden & his son in Ukraine, many people see no problem with Trump asking Ukraine to help look into it... Honestly, if roles were reversed, and it were Eric Trump being paid just short of $1,000,000 a year, Trump running for President, and President Biden called Ukraine to ask for help investigating candidate Trump... You think we'd be dealing with the amount of outrage that we're currently seeing?

Why does Ukraine need to do the investigating instead of our own DOJ or intelligence agency? 

[QMany]

5 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said:

 

The problem with using this Ukraine phone call as grounds for impeachment are this:

*The nature of the matter could easily implicate Biden, Obama, etc. just as much if not more than Trump.

*With all the questions surrounding Biden & his son in Ukraine, many people see no problem with Trump asking Ukraine to help look into it... Honestly, if roles were reversed, and it were Eric Trump being paid just short of $1,000,000 a year, Trump running for President, and President Biden called Ukraine to ask for help investigating candidate Trump... You think we'd be dealing with the amount of outrage that we're currently seeing?

 

Again, disingenuous. 

 

No one in their right might thinks this could implicate "Biden, Obama, etc. just as much if not more than Trump." You are showing your stripes. That is exactly what this propaganda operation was aimed at, muddying the waters simply by throwing out Biden + corruption. 

 

Trump didn't want Ukraine to "look into it." He already knew these allegations were debunked. He wanted a public announcement that they were investigating Biden. Don't conflate those two things. Trump knew this was wrong, which is why he had his personal attorney doing it through back-channels. 

 

 

[knapplc]

13 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said:

*The nature of the matter could easily implicate Biden, Obama, etc. just as much if not more than Trump.

 

False. The doctored transcript Trump produced implicates him with a direct quid pro quo. He is directly withholding our taxpayer money from a foreign government so they'll announce they're investigating his political rival - not even conduct an investigation, just announce it from a podium - to directly benefit his political campaign. Trump was not trying to benefit America's interest, he was only specifically looking to self-deal.

[ActualCornHusker]

3 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

False. The doctored transcript Trump produced implicates him with a direct quid pro quo. He is directly withholding our taxpayer money from a foreign government so they'll announce they're investigating his political rival - not even conduct an investigation, just announce it from a podium - to directly benefit his political campaign. Trump was not trying to benefit America's interest, he was only specifically looking to self-deal.

 

 

 

 

[knapplc]

Just now, ActualCornHusker said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bank robber says he didn't rob bank.

 

Film at eleven.

[QMany]

3 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

False. The doctored transcript Trump produced implicates him with a direct quid pro quo. He is directly withholding our taxpayer money from a foreign government so they'll announce they're investigating his political rival - not even conduct an investigation, just announce it from a podium - to directly benefit his political campaign. Trump was not trying to benefit America's interest, he was only specifically looking to self-deal.

 

Exactly! They didn't want an investigation, they wanted a STATEMENT. 

 

For those keeping track at home, that is Sondland. He was appointed by Trump (i.e. not a Never Trumper) and admitted Quid Pro Quo under oath.

[Nebfanatic]

Just now, ActualCornHusker said:

 

 

 

 

Lmao what did you expect them to say? Zelensky needs the US he isn't going to piss Trump off by saying 'yes president trump attempted to bribe me into investigating Joe Biden as a political hitjob.'

[ActualCornHusker]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

 

Bank robber says he didn't rob bank.

 

Film at eleven.

 

Let's make sure to hold your standard to everyone then, k?

[knapplc]

Just now, QMany said:

 

Exactly! They didn't want an investigation, they wanted a STATEMENT. 

 

For those keeping track at home, that is Sondland. He was appointed by Trump (i.e. not a Never Trumper) and admitted Quid Pro Quo under oath.

 

@ActualCornHusker

 

You were saying?

Just now, ActualCornHusker said:

 

Let's make sure to hold your standard to everyone then, k?

 

I absolutely do.

[BigRedBuster]

21 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said:

*The nature of the matter could easily implicate Biden, Obama, etc. just as much if not more than Trump.

*With all the questions surrounding Biden & his son in Ukraine, many people see no problem with Trump asking Ukraine to help look into it... Honestly, if roles were reversed, and it were Eric Trump being paid just short of $1,000,000 a year, Trump running for President, and President Biden called Ukraine to ask for help investigating candidate Trump... You think we'd be dealing with the amount of outrage that we're currently seeing?

Fine.

 

If this takes down the Bidens (and whomever) fine.  Everything I've seen on that is a big nothing burger.  But, I'm all for investigating it if possible.

BUT!!!!  That doesn't excuse a sitting President from inviting a foreign government to meddle in our elections FOR HIS PERSONAL GAIN!!!!

 

So, if it brings all of them down......why would that cause us to NOT go through this investigation?