Nebraska's Michael Rose-Ivey receives racial backlash for anthem protest

[GBRHouston]

Heh. I love how my interjection back in post I believe it was #108 turns into this.

 

Protesting is one thing. Racism is a problem. None the assumptions about the way I think are true. My main argument is about the fact that protesting in a way that is disrespectful to a ton of people should not be the way to go. Sure it is causing national attention, but at the cost of a lot of people's mental sanity? In this thread alone, I have been called racist, "what is wrong with this country," "misguided," and many other things thrown my way that are uncalled for. If people are supposed to be open minded, then why are they closed minded to people who have differing opinions? I am open minded, and while I disagree with many opinions, I understand where those people are coming from and that not everyone will have the same opinion as me. Yes, of course I wish we lived in a world where protesting wouldn't even need to happen. We all do. But it is happening, and the way it is happening is horrible. I have never been more disgusted in my life than I was when I saw people supporting the way Kaep protested and following along. Yes, this does need to be protested. No, it is not the country's fault. No, the national symbol is not oppressive or racist. Especially when all branches want a non-racist society as well.

[Moiraine]

 

 

Supporting people burning the American flag in protest? Please clairfy, Blitz!

 

 

It's their right to do so as guaranteed by the constitution of the United States. When I took an oath for service it was to defend the constitution of the United States. That means every veteran has a moral obligation to see protests as PROTECTED SPEECH that we should DEFEND.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces_oath_of_enlistment

 

I do not need to be education on the oath, I lived it myself. It is not a protected speech burning a flag.

 

 

 

You asked him to clarify it, then when he did you told him not to educate you. Apparently he can't win.

[Jim Hammer]

 

 

And nobody is denied housing because of race. Jobs, well I don't have stats to take a stance on that, but neither do you.

 

 

Your first sentence is entirely false, and the second sentence in fact does have stats. I made a thread in P&R with indisputable proof of both of these things. I encourage you to go look.

 

Okay, I read it. While those are some pretty good stats, why says that it was 100% because of race? Sure, race may cause some bias, but certainly race is not the only reason. Would that graph look different if this country had no racism? Maybe a bit, but I don't think it would change all that drastically.

Now read this: https://www.deanza.edu/faculty/lewisjulie/White%20Priviledge%20Unpacking%20the%20Invisible%20Knapsack.pdf

[Moiraine]

 

 

It is not a protected speech burning a flag.

 

 

 

Yes it is.

 

It is an act , not a speech - Wog

 

 

 

 

The flag of the United States is sometimes symbolically burned, often in protest of the policies of the American government, both within the country and abroad. The United States Supreme Court in Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989), and reaffirmed in U.S. v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990), has ruled that due to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, it is unconstitutional for a government (whether federal, state, or municipality) to prohibit the desecration of a flag, due to its status as "symbolic speech."

[GBRHouston]

 

 

 

 

 

Here is something I find sad: Throughout living my normal life today, I have overheard conversations about this exact same topic five times. One for it, the majority against. Throwing aside the side that people were on, because that doesn't matter in this post, this is consuming many people's lives, including mine. The people who are against it, like me, are truly saddened and angered by this. Anthem protests are NOT the best way to get the message across. No, I cannot think of a better way at the moment, but I can assure there are better ways that are less controversial. I get everything will be controversial, but some ways more than others.

 

Maybe I should text during Grace before Thanksgiving dinner because I am protesting.

 

I don't find that sad at all.

 

And if your text (I don't know how that would accomplish whatever your goal is) got the attention of a large number of people who normally wouldn't listen to you, I'd say have at it. Although I'd say that's quite a bit worse than doing it during the national anthem. I just don't hold a symbol/song for a country as something sacred. When people say Grace they are either talking to God or think they are talking to God.

 

Seriously? Something as rude as that, and it is acceptable if it is in the form of protest? And I don't know about you, but I love the country I live in, and I find the anthem very sacred as well. Disrespecting it is wrong, protesting or not, much like the Grace metaphor I made up.

 

 

 

Dude, come on.

 

Go back and read a bit:

 

http://www.huskerboard.com/index.php?/topic/80485-nebraskas-michael-rose-ivey-receives-racial-backlash-for-anthem-protest/?view=findpost&p=1742308

 

Synopsis of the link above: I'm a combat veteran. I'm a patriot. I fought so people COULD protest how they see fit. I fought for people to have the right to protest in any way, shape or form. I even support people's right to burn the flag...yes, I'm a veteran...yes I know what the flag 'stands for'...but I also know that a flag isn't as important as the freedoms it represents just like a national anthem isn't as important as the freedoms it represents. So, I support everyone's ability to protest anything because that is true freedom and it is what I fought for.

 

 

 

 

In other words...if you don't like the constitution, you try to decide for other people how, when, where, and why they are protesting.

 

Thank you for your service- I meant to respond to your earlier post but never got to it.

 

I was not using fallen soldiers as emotional stimulation, I was making a point.

 

I completely get that kneeling during the anthem is legal. I completely get than protesting non-violently is legal. And just because you see it that way, doesn't mean that the entire world does. Before Kaep began doing this, sitting during the anthem was socially frowned upon. Why? Because you are supposed to honor your country. I'm sure you get that, as a veteran. In my previous post, I was questioning why it suddenly becomes acceptable because it is a form of protest.

 

A note to everyone: I am not trying to disrespect anyone in any way, shape, or form, and if it comes across like that, I apologize.

 

 

 

There was no sudden about it. It's been done in the 1950's by Jackie Robinson. It was done in the 1968 Olympics. It will continue to be done many times in the future. It is an effective way to protest because it has been proven in history by the aforementioned athletes to be effective.

 

 

Keep in mind it is a song and that the flag is a piece of cloth. The thing that makes those two things bigger than what they are is the FREEDOMS they represent. None of those 4 football players were disrespecting that freedom...praying while kneeling for the country is as noble a form of protest as I have ever seen.

 

 

 

I agree, everyone has a right to their opinion and I understand that you feel it is disrespectful. Protest can be taken that way (KKK protests, anti or pro abortion protests, etc). Still, the thing to keep your mind on is that freedom means protecting the right of every individual no matter if their protest makes you feel disrespected or that it is disrespectful. We have an obligation as citizens to uphold these freedoms in my opinion.

 

So, awesome that you get the idea of their protest..understood you feel it is disrespectful...but it's a song without the underlying freedom and shouldn't make you feel disrespected at all.

 

THANK YOU. I am glad that somebody is finally replying to me after having seen it my way, while still having differing opinions. +1 for that.

 

Yes you have the freedom to speak out against your country, but refer to my last post, I accidentally responded to you there basically.

[NebraskaShellback]

 

 

 

Supporting people burning the American flag in protest? Please clairfy, Blitz!

 

 

It's their right to do so as guaranteed by the constitution of the United States. When I took an oath for service it was to defend the constitution of the United States. That means every veteran has a moral obligation to see protests as PROTECTED SPEECH that we should DEFEND.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces_oath_of_enlistment

 

I do not need to be education on the oath, I lived it myself. It is not a protected speech burning a flag.

 

 

 

You asked him to clarify it, then when he did you told him not to educate you. Apparently he can't win.

 

He sitting there giving me F*cking links, I know the oath, he needs to explain why burn the flag?

[Moiraine]

 

 

 

 

Supporting people burning the American flag in protest? Please clairfy, Blitz!

 

 

It's their right to do so as guaranteed by the constitution of the United States. When I took an oath for service it was to defend the constitution of the United States. That means every veteran has a moral obligation to see protests as PROTECTED SPEECH that we should DEFEND.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces_oath_of_enlistment

 

I do not need to be education on the oath, I lived it myself. It is not a protected speech burning a flag.

 

 

 

You asked him to clarify it, then when he did you told him not to educate you. Apparently he can't win.

 

He sitting there giving me F*cking links, I know the oath, he needs to explain why burn the flag?

 

 

 

Like I said before, he explained himself perfectly clearly. He believes in peoples' right to burn the flag. He's explained why he feels that way. Furthermore it has been explained that it's legal in the U.S.

 

Now you're just nagging. You also left out the "right" part to make it sound like he supported burning the flag, which is not true.

[Landlord]

My main argument is about the fact that protesting in a way that is disrespectful to a ton of people should not be the way to go.

 

The main argument of many who disagree with you is, name a single way to protest in a way that isn't disrespectful to a ton of people? That is part of the very nature and point of why people protest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is not a protected speech burning a flag.

 

 

 

Yes it is.

 

It is an act , not a speech - Wog

 

 

 

It's an act covered under the 1st Amendment.

 

 

 

Justice William Brennan wrote for a five-justice majority in holding that the defendant Gregory Lee Johnson's act of flag burning was protected speech under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson

[Flood]

Burning a flag absolutely IS protected speech. Thank goodness, too. It would be the height of hypocrisy to place that piece of cloth as sacred above our constitution.

 

I also served, during the Desert Storm Era. I also know a bit about racism, both casual and institutional. I am a native American. I was born in Alliance Nebraska and lived a lot of my life on Pine Ridge, and my tribe's home the Rosebud Indian Reservation in SD, just north of western Nebraska.

 

Racism against tribal members runs rampant out there in ways most people would refuse to believe. Many people couldn't begin to imagine the way tribal members are treated in that area. Certainly, it is not universal, but that fact does nothing to lessen the times it does occur. The racism some of you deny is lurking in your own backyard, hidden out in the Sand Hills and prairies.

 

I am proud of these young men for standing up for what they believe in. I've seen many people claim that athletes should accept their fate as 'role models' and act accordingly. These young men are doing exactly that and are crucified by many for doing so.

[GBRHouston]

 

My main argument is about the fact that protesting in a way that is disrespectful to a ton of people should not be the way to go.

 

The main argument of many who disagree with you is, name a single way to protest in a way that isn't disrespectful to a ton of people? That is part of the very nature and point of why people protest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Standing on the side of the street. Sure it wouldn't grab much national attention, but I don't get offended by those. As for one that would grab a ton of national attention, think of something unique, like Kaep did.

[NebraskaShellback]

 

 

 

 

 

Supporting people burning the American flag in protest? Please clairfy, Blitz!

 

 

It's their right to do so as guaranteed by the constitution of the United States. When I took an oath for service it was to defend the constitution of the United States. That means every veteran has a moral obligation to see protests as PROTECTED SPEECH that we should DEFEND.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces_oath_of_enlistment

 

I do not need to be education on the oath, I lived it myself. It is not a protected speech burning a flag.

 

 

 

You asked him to clarify it, then when he did you told him not to educate you. Apparently he can't win.

 

He sitting there giving me F*cking links, I know the oath, he needs to explain why burn the flag?

 

 

 

Like I said before, he explained himself perfectly clearly. He believes in peoples' right to burn the flag. He's explained why he feels that way. Furthermore it has been explained that it's legal in the U.S.

 

Now you're just nagging. You also left out the "right" part to make it sound like he supported burning the flag, which is not true.

 

LOL having fun with ya

[Jim Hammer]

Heh. I love how my interjection back in post I believe it was #108 turns into this.

 

Protesting is one thing. Racism is a problem. None the assumptions about the way I think are true. My main argument is about the fact that protesting in a way that is disrespectful to a ton of people should not be the way to go. Sure it is causing national attention, but at the cost of a lot of people's mental sanity? In this thread alone, I have been called racist, "what is wrong with this country," "misguided," and many other things thrown my way that are uncalled for. If people are supposed to be open minded, then why are they closed minded to people who have differing opinions? I am open minded, and while I disagree with many opinions, I understand where those people are coming from and that not everyone will have the same opinion as me. Yes, of course I wish we lived in a world where protesting wouldn't even need to happen. We all do. But it is happening, and the way it is happening is horrible. I have never been more disgusted in my life than I was when I saw people supporting the way Kaep protested and following along. Yes, this does need to be protested. No, it is not the country's fault. No, the national symbol is not oppressive or racist. Especially when all branches want a non-racist society as well.

You say racism is a problem. But you have no idea how persuasive it is. You don't experience it and you have done little to understand. Lots of people in this thread have said they didn't like the protest, but understand they players have the right to do so. When you say the way they protest is just going to make things worse, how? By pushing racists farther away? No matter what they do, they aren't getting through to the close-minded bigots. The protest is for those who don't realize how deeply the system that supports the racism is. It's going to open their eyes and maybe those people will be part of the solution. Maybe young people will grow up to be less racist if they realize what's going on.

 

And in the end, all the bigots will die and this country will be a better place.

[NebraskaShellback]

 

 

 

 

Supporting people burning the American flag in protest? Please clairfy, Blitz!

 

 

It's their right to do so as guaranteed by the constitution of the United States. When I took an oath for service it was to defend the constitution of the United States. That means every veteran has a moral obligation to see protests as PROTECTED SPEECH that we should DEFEND.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces_oath_of_enlistment

 

I do not need to be education on the oath, I lived it myself. It is not a protected speech burning a flag.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson

 

 

 

It's protected...by the constitution. If you feel you should defend the constitution, you have to defend people's rights to burn that flag man. Sorry, it's black and white...just like obeying an order from an officer or superior...you don't have to like it, but you have to do it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Supporting people burning the American flag in protest? Please clairfy, Blitz!

 

 

It's their right to do so as guaranteed by the constitution of the United States. When I took an oath for service it was to defend the constitution of the United States. That means every veteran has a moral obligation to see protests as PROTECTED SPEECH that we should DEFEND.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces_oath_of_enlistment

 

I do not need to be education on the oath, I lived it myself. It is not a protected speech burning a flag.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson

 

 

 

It's protected...by the constitution. If you feel you should defend the constitution, you have to defend people's rights to burn that flag man. Sorry, it's black and white...just like obeying an order from an officer or superior...you don't have to like it, but you have to do it.

 

Just having fun with ya..................................LOL................................I know all to well Blitz been there and down done that serving. Forgive me of this little stunt. See ya around kid

[Landlord]

 

 

My main argument is about the fact that protesting in a way that is disrespectful to a ton of people should not be the way to go.

 

The main argument of many who disagree with you is, name a single way to protest in a way that isn't disrespectful to a ton of people? That is part of the very nature and point of why people protest.

 

Standing on the side of the street. Sure it wouldn't grab much national attention, but I don't get offended by those. As for one that would grab a ton of national attention, think of something unique, like Kaep did.

 

 

 

 

The way I'm reading this is,

 

 

"Either protest in a way that isn't effective at all at drawing attention to your cause, defeating the point, OR, if you want national attention (like Kaep did).............sit during the National Anthem"

 

????

[NebraskaShellback]

 

My main argument is about the fact that protesting in a way that is disrespectful to a ton of people should not be the way to go.

 

The main argument of many who disagree with you is, name a single way to protest in a way that isn't disrespectful to a ton of people? That is part of the very nature and point of why people protest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is not a protected speech burning a flag.

 

 

 

Yes it is.

 

It is an act , not a speech - Wog

 

 

 

It's an act covered under the 1st Amendment.

 

 

 

Justice William Brennan wrote for a five-justice majority in holding that the defendant Gregory Lee Johnson's act of flag burning was protected speech under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson

 

I know just got ya.................................LOL Have a good night Landlord.