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Trump's America


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1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

I can support conservative issues and think Trump is a scum bag.

 

 

That's entirely true. Although, in contrast, it does not seem that you can be a GOP lawmaker on the Hill and not be active accessory to what Trump is doing.

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5 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

That's entirely true. Although, in contrast, it does not seem that you can be a GOP lawmaker on the Hill and not be active accessory to what Trump is doing.

 

I don't believe that to be true.

 

So, just being a Republican...even though you were one long before Trump ever came on the scene, makes you an accomplice....without actually looking at individual actions?

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1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

What the Democrat Mantra is becoming is that if you are a Republican and criticize Trump, but vote for Republican issues like tax cuts, you're "enabling" Trump and no better than he is.

 

Which, this is what I have an issue with.

 

I can support conservative issues and think Trump is a scum bag.  Dems seem to think that if you're a firm critic of Trump, then you should be voting with the Dems.  Well....sorry, that isn't going to happen unless the Dems attitudes change on issues.

 

There is a distinct separation between Trump and what I believe a conservative arm of the government should be working towards.  For some crazy reason, about 40% of the country thinks they are tied together.  If someone steps away from supporting Trump, another 40% of the country thinks they should automatically start supporting Democratic opinions.

 

:yeahI'm in agreement wt BRB on this.    I HATE :bad the way conservationism has become tied to Trumpism.   There are times as the Romney oped notes where Trump is correct on the issues - I attribute this to any adults in the room and not any core beliefs / values from Trump himself - he has none but  'whatever benefits me, is good policy'. 

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42 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I don't believe that to be true.

 

So, just being a Republican...even though you were one long before Trump ever came on the scene, makes you an accomplice....without actually looking at individual actions?

 

 

Trump took the Republican party hostage and snuck in the back door to usurp and take over, but every GOP member in the three branches of government has actively remained a GOP member for the last two years as their party and platform have become Trump's party and platform. They've stayed on the train for their own self interest. What they did before isn't really relevant. If they believe in conservative principles that's even more damning evidence of their culpability with Trump and even more gives proof that what they really care about is power, not a conservative ideology. People like Evan McMullin have walked the walk of their talk of true conservatism. 

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2 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

What the Democrat Mantra is becoming is that if you are a Republican and criticize Trump, but vote for Republican issues like tax cuts, you're "enabling" Trump and no better than he is.

 

Which, this is what I have an issue with.

 

I can support conservative issues and think Trump is a scum bag.  Dems seem to think that if you're a firm critic of Trump, then you should be voting with the Dems.  Well....sorry, that isn't going to happen unless the Dems attitudes change on issues.

 

There is a distinct separation between Trump and what I believe a conservative arm of the government should be working towards.  For some crazy reason, about 40% of the country thinks they are tied together.  If someone steps away from supporting Trump, another 40% of the country thinks they should automatically start supporting Democratic opinions.

 

 

No, that's not what that thread of tweets said, although sure there are probably some people that believe that.  The point is not "if you support conservative policies you are an enabler."  It's that, Trump is the reflection of the constituents they are seeking votes from even now, and republican voters support him and his policies at like 90%.  When they look in the mirror as a republican lawmaker they should see his ugly mug staring back at them, he's everything they've been dog whistling for 50 years to get support come to pass.  He is the right wing narcissistic policies embodied and put into practice.

 

The point was, when your party base is Donald Trump, by design (because the party built it that way since Nixon) you cant lament for the good old days, because those "good old days" were window dressing covering up all the "Donald Trumps" just under the surface.  There is no "principled moral republican party" it doesn't exist, and maybe it never did, but it certainly hasn't since at least the dawn of the southern strategy and Nixon secretly extending the Vietnam war.  So its time to stop pretending if you are Mitt Romney or any Republican lawmaker that wants to claim some sort of moral high ground, and if they aren't pretending then they're fools maybe for buying into it in the first place, but certainly for trying to claim it now.

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1 hour ago, methodical said:

 

No, that's not what that thread of tweets said, although sure there are probably some people that believe that.  The point is not "if you support conservative policies you are an enabler."  It's that, Trump is the reflection of the constituents they are seeking votes from even now, and republican voters support him and his policies at like 90%.  When they look in the mirror as a republican lawmaker they should see his ugly mug staring back at them, he's everything they've been dog whistling for 50 years to get support come to pass.  He is the right wing narcissistic policies embodied and put into practice.

 

The point was, when your party base is Donald Trump, by design (because the party built it that way since Nixon) you cant lament for the good old days, because those "good old days" were window dressing covering up all the "Donald Trumps" just under the surface.  There is no "principled moral republican party" it doesn't exist, and maybe it never did, but it certainly hasn't since at least the dawn of the southern strategy and Nixon secretly extending the Vietnam war.  So its time to stop pretending if you are Mitt Romney or any Republican lawmaker that wants to claim some sort of moral high ground, and if they aren't pretending then they're fools maybe for buying into it in the first place, but certainly for trying to claim it now.

 

I don't believe this is what the Republican party has been building and wanting for the last 50 years.  Not at all.  It's possible it's been building towards this in the last say 10-12 years.  And, eventually, that's why I left the party.  But, even then, the party wasn't this nuts prior to Trump running in 2016.  

 

No way in hell would Reagan support Trump....as an example.

 

The  Democrats are doing a great job at painting Trump as the perfect example of everything conservative.  And, the Republican party is making it damn easy for them to do because so many people in the party are enabling him.....like Romney's niece as the RNC chairman and her quote above.  It's one reason why Trump pisses me off so much as a leader in a "Conservative movement".

 

The original tweet I quoted in my original post in this conversation is an example of that.  Democrats are going to play the game of tying everyone that isn't a Democrat to Trump.....even when they are a vocal critic of him.

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1 hour ago, Landlord said:

 

 

Trump took the Republican party hostage and snuck in the back door to usurp and take over, but every GOP member in the three branches of government has actively remained a GOP member for the last two years as their party and platform have become Trump's party and platform. They've stayed on the train for their own self interest. What they did before isn't really relevant. If they believe in conservative principles that's even more damning evidence of their culpability with Trump and even more gives proof that what they really care about is power, not a conservative ideology. People like Evan McMullin have walked the walk of their talk of true conservatism. 

The bolded is my point.

 

The Republican party hasn't been sitting around dreaming of having a guy like Trump in the Whitehouse for 50 years.  He took advantage of the FoxNews crowd and "took the party hostage" with it.

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41 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

The bolded is my point.

 

The Republican party hasn't been sitting around dreaming of having a guy like Trump in the Whitehouse for 50 years.  He took advantage of the FoxNews crowd and "took the party hostage" with it.

 

 

And everyone still on board in the GOP is either completely blind, which disqualifies them from representing us, or is fine being in bed with Trump, which also disqualifies them from representing us, or has some misguided notion of trying to 'save' the party from within, which also IMO disqualifies them because in their noble crusade to be the last line of defense they are also enabling and exacerbating the Trump problem.

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24 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

And everyone still on board in the GOP is either completely blind, which disqualifies them from representing us, or is fine being in bed with Trump, which also disqualifies them from representing us, or has some misguided notion of trying to 'save' the party from within, which also IMO disqualifies them because in their noble crusade to be the last line of defense they are also enabling and exacerbating the Trump problem.

So, in your opinion, anyone who even tries to be a vocal critic and change the party from within, is a worthless piece of crap.

 

Hmmm...interesting.  So, no need for any Republican to ever criticize Trump or try to make things better....because everyone's already made up their minds anyway.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

No. my opinion is that they are culpable, their hands aren't clean, and they have disqualified themselves from deserving to be able to serve America in government. 

 

So, my next statement is true in your eyes.

 

14 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

So, no need for any Republican to ever criticize Trump or try to make things better....

 

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Commentary on Mitt's oped notes that it is reflective of a debate going on behind the scenes in the GOP.  Should, will, could someone challenge Trump in the primary. 

I think the pull might be in Mitt's soul to do so.    What concerns me is the bold below.  If the GOP has now really morphed into the Trump party, blinded by is egotism and arrogance, then

their may very well not be a GOP party to run against Trump in - the party will be a shell of its former self.   The camel got into the tent and made it his own.  Principled people like

Romney, Flake and Kasich will not be able to draw votes that are needed to upset Trump. 

 

Therefore, I think the only thing to save the GOP from long term disaster (and from itself) is a Trump impeachment.  Sometimes pain needs to be inflicted to bring about healing.  Remove the cancer, heal, get new direction.

 

 

https://www.chron.com/news/article/Romney-asserts-his-independence-and-Trump-s-GOP-13503426.php
 

Quote

 

Romney's far from the lone major Republican who is raising sharper questions about the viability of the Trump presidency. Flake has repeatedly said he is considering a 2020 run. Corker said last month, "I haven't ruled it out," and suggested that Trump might not run for re-election.

"Somebody does need to challenge the president," Flake told CNN last week. "I'm a long way from there, but somebody needs to and I think that the country needs to be reminded of what it means to be conservative, certainly on the Republican side, and what it means to be decent as well."

But Trump has cultivated intense support among many Republican base voters, making any primary run against him extremely difficult, and making Romney's own path forward in both the Senate and potentially for 2020 perilous.

"Messrs. Romney, Flake, and Kasich will continue chasing their fantasy of being president, even if that means destroying our party and denying President Trump re-election," Jevon O.A. Williams, a Republican National Committee member, wrote in an email late Tuesday to fellow RNC members, urging them to not shrug off Romney's essay and to take step to make any primary challenge a steep climb.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

So, my next statement is true in your eyes.

 

44 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

So, no need for any Republican to ever criticize Trump or try to make things better....because everyone's already made up their minds anyway.

 

 

No. On the contrary, that is absolutely paramount for all Republicans to do. And the best way for them to do it would be through action that backs up words. I'll be happy when words come out, as in the case with Mitt Romney, but will still maintain the opinion that while that's good, it's not good enough.

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29 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

 

No. On the contrary, that is absolutely paramount for all Republicans to do. And the best way for them to do it would be through action that backs up words. I'll be happy when words come out, as in the case with Mitt Romney, but will still maintain the opinion that while that's good, it's not good enough.

 

OK, then I'm confused.....because you said, anyone who is a Republican in Washington doesn't deserve the right to represent us.  This statement seems to differ from that in that it opens the door to the fact that some Republicans can try to change the party from within.  If they are "disqualified" from representing us simply because they are Republicans, then when do they get the chance to change the party?  In this case, when can Romney have a chance to change the party if he is condemned before he even gets there.....even though he is heavily criticizing what we all have been criticizing for the last 2 years?

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4 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I don't believe this is what the Republican party has been building and wanting for the last 50 years.  Not at all.  It's possible it's been building towards this in the last say 10-12 years.  And, eventually, that's why I left the party.  But, even then, the party wasn't this nuts prior to Trump running in 2016.  

 

No way in hell would Reagan support Trump....as an example.

 

The  Democrats are doing a great job at painting Trump as the perfect example of everything conservative.  And, the Republican party is making it damn easy for them to do because so many people in the party are enabling him.....like Romney's niece as the RNC chairman and her quote above.  It's one reason why Trump pisses me off so much as a leader in a "Conservative movement".

 

The original tweet I quoted in my original post in this conversation is an example of that.  Democrats are going to play the game of tying everyone that isn't a Democrat to Trump.....even when they are a vocal critic of him.

 

These are the people that Reagan was courting with his welfare queen straw-man.  So while he might not support him if he alive and well today, he did help build the party that jumps to action when you frame a campaign as anti-non-white skin color.  This was the appeal that was being made by many a politician since Nixon, who saw the civil rights bill as an opportunity to appeal to the southern white majority and a way to whittle support away from programs like welfare by making it seem like it's not for whites, it's for those damned poor black people that are getting a free ride and living a life a luxury off of your tax dollars. 

 

So when you peel back the Reagan or whatever other popular republican politician's veneer as the face of that party, you see a foundation built on a voting block that wishes they could've had politicians like Donald Trump all along... without the old subconscious appeals to their baser instincts, they'd prefer it right out in the open.

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