Landlord Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Reagan would certainly be appalled by Trump and by the lock step support of him, most certainly. But Reagan also capitalized on (along with others like Nixon) and stoked some of the embers that grew into the Trump-realized inferno of racial and socio-cultural resentment. It's not hard to trace that thread. 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Look, I get it. Now that Trump is in office and is the most disgusting human being ever to hold the office, it’s easy for the Dems now to claim everything that ever has been Republican and conservative is all about Trump. It’s their path to victory gin 2020. Link to comment
methodical Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: Look, I get it. Now that Trump is in office and is the most disgusting human being ever to hold the office, it’s easy for the Dems now to claim everything that ever has been Republican and conservative is all about Trump. It’s their path to victory gin 2020. But it's not claiming everything has and always was about trump for Republicans. Krugman was saying that in order to get elected they played to the same base of people that love him and see nothing wrong with what he does. Republicans always claimed those parts of the base were some sort of minority whose support they didn't need or particularly want. We have seen now that that is not true and in order to be in a position to govern nationally they rely on them. How "principled" and "moral" can you claim to be if that is the bargain you've struck as a party for the last 50 years? What ends justify the means in order to push your legislative agenda? 2 Link to comment
Moiraine Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 IMO, the people in positions around Trump should have fought against him tooth and nail rather than quit. The ones who are just in congress should have fought against him for our country rather than caring only for getting re-relected. The normal every day Republicans should not want to be associated with the party if they are against Trump. There should be an exodus from the party and I doubt there is. Instead they're blinded by loyalty to party as if they're cheering on their favorite sports team, and whatever Trump says they go along with it because Trump is a Republican. 1 Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Good back and forth here. I'll just say I think everyone here made good points. Trump is the ugly, overt realization of the dog whistles the GOP has utilized for decades to get elected, even the "good ones' like Reagan who enjoyed broader political appeal. But Trump himself doesn't represent conservatism, he merely co-opted it for his own purposes. I prefer to just think of it as Trumpism, which incorporates certain conservative policy positions. You CAN be a conservative without supporting Trump. The problem is I'm not sure you can successfully be a Republican without doing so. @TGHusker@BigRedBuster I for one don't expect these actual conservatives who criticize Trump to suddenly vote like flaming lefties. I expect them to vote like conservatives. It's just disappointing seeing time after time when we get party line votes to keep Trump's taxes secret from the country or not even let a Mueller protection bill get to the floor. Republicans refuse to act as a check on Trump and instead serve as lap dogs to protect him at every opportunity. Hence America opted for the only available recourse and removed a bunch of Republicans from political office last November. 3 Link to comment
TGHusker Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 13 hours ago, Clifford Franklin said: Good back and forth here. I'll just say I think everyone here made good points. Trump is the ugly, overt realization of the dog whistles the GOP has utilized for decades to get elected, even the "good ones' like Reagan who enjoyed broader political appeal. But Trump himself doesn't represent conservatism, he merely co-opted it for his own purposes. I prefer to just think of it as Trumpism, which incorporates certain conservative policy positions. You CAN be a conservative without supporting Trump. The problem is I'm not sure you can successfully be a Republican without doing so. @TGHusker@BigRedBuster I for one don't expect these actual conservatives who criticize Trump to suddenly vote like flaming lefties. I expect them to vote like conservatives. It's just disappointing seeing time after time when we get party line votes to keep Trump's taxes secret from the country or not even let a Mueller protection bill get to the floor. Republicans refuse to act as a check on Trump and instead serve as lap dogs to protect him at every opportunity. Hence America opted for the only available recourse and removed a bunch of Republicans from political office last November. Good post. That is why I cannot trust the "Party" to do the right thing anymore. As Trump used the party to advance himself, the party has prostituted itself towards Trump (no offense towards prostitutes) to advance itself - both are using each other and none of it is appealing. I hope Romney or someone runs against Trump - but plan A would be that Trump cannot run in 2020. 1 Link to comment
commando Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 is this trumps america? https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/the-second-us-civil-war/news-story/ec43b36de5f5f9f11e478a8fc71ea2dc November 2020: President Trump has lost the election. He blames voter fraud. He blames ‘deep state’ interference. He refuses to step down … What next? Link to comment
mrandyk Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 I'm not sure of the end result, but people will die if he disputes his loss. Link to comment
Moiraine Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 3 hours ago, commando said: is this trumps america? https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/the-second-us-civil-war/news-story/ec43b36de5f5f9f11e478a8fc71ea2dc November 2020: President Trump has lost the election. He blames voter fraud. He blames ‘deep state’ interference. He refuses to step down … What next? 8 minutes ago, mrandyk said: I'm not sure of the end result, but people will die if he disputes his loss. I have mentioned this multiple times the last 2 years. I think he will tweet that the media is lying about the results. Then it’s up to the military, which from my anecdotal experience supports Trump, to do the right thing or at least not do the wrong thing. I have a couple acquaintances in the military on FB and they are still pro Trump and I saw a group chat on FB where one of their military buddies was saying why they shouldn’t be pro Trump and all of that guy’s other military buddies shunned him and said they didn’t want to talk to him ever again and said they were deleting him on FB. This sounds like an Australian writing about America though: Quote Social scientists put aged, white male evangelical populations in one corner. The other holds young, highly educated women of colour. Link to comment
Moiraine Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 This reminds me of posts a certain poster likes to make when Trump continues a trend that was started eons ago. 1 2 Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 42 minutes ago, Moiraine said: I have mentioned this multiple times the last 2 years. I think he will tweet that the media is lying about the results. Then it’s up to the military, which from my anecdotal experience supports Trump, to do the right thing or at least not do the wrong thing. I have a couple acquaintances in the military on FB and they are still pro Trump and I saw a group chat on FB where one of their military buddies was saying why they shouldn’t be pro Trump and all of that guy’s other military buddies shunned him and said they didn’t want to talk to him ever again and said they were deleting him on FB. There's no way military leadership would back an undemocratic power grab by Trump. No way. After all, military leadership owe their allegiance to the Constitution and not the Commander-in-Chief. If he issues an unconstitutional order, they're obligated to ignore it. I'm not aware of that every happening because most of the time they do assume subordination to POTUS. But if he just flat out lied about losing an election and tried to stay in office, they'd come down hard on him. I'd wage most military leadership realizes Trump's an ignorant blowhard. Mattis certainly did. Some of the rank-and-file might support Trump if he did that, but I'd assume the numbers who'd side with the Constitution and our democracy over him would vastly outnumber them. 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 57 minutes ago, Moiraine said: I have mentioned this multiple times the last 2 years. I think he will tweet that the media is lying about the results. Then it’s up to the military, which from my anecdotal experience supports Trump, to do the right thing or at least not do the wrong thing. I have a couple acquaintances in the military on FB and they are still pro Trump and I saw a group chat on FB where one of their military buddies was saying why they shouldn’t be pro Trump and all of that guy’s other military buddies shunned him and said they didn’t want to talk to him ever again and said they were deleting him on FB. This sounds like an Australian writing about America though: I think I saw a poll not too long ago that showed the military is only a little more pro trump than the general population. And, I believe the generals and other officers are NOT fans. Link to comment
Moiraine Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 2 hours ago, BigRedBuster said: I think I saw a poll not too long ago that showed the military is only a little more pro trump than the general population. And, I believe the generals and other officers are NOT fans. I hope that’s true. The guy I’m talking about is Nebraskan. I’m guessing the overall military is at least slightly less Republican than the Republican states’ military members. Link to comment
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