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1 hour ago, StPaulHusker said:

We have a winner!!!

 

About 700,000 travelers to the United States overstayed their visas in fiscal 2017, the most recent year for which the Department of Homeland Security has published figures. DHS estimated that, as of Sept. 30, 2017, the end of that fiscal year, more than 600,000 of those travelers were still in the U.S.

 

600,000 in ONE YEAR is a lot/too many imo no matter how they actually got here

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47 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

 

I can appreciate that (even if I disagree to an extent), but you have to wonder that if the return is worth the investment. Especially in some of the African countries.

 

Now that you are thinking about return on investment, give some critical thought to the wall and what that ROI might look like.

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53 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

 

I can appreciate that (even if I disagree to an extent), but you have to wonder that if the return is worth the investment. Especially in some of the African countries.

 

Hey, I've always been a huge proponent of pulling back from being the world police.  But, if we are actually going to pull back from aid to developing countries, then we need to make sure we are replacing the resource we are getting from that country.

 

And.....you don't want the same situation where we have in Honduras where we don't help out......and then we end up with refugees at our borders.

 

Sorry, I'm not in favor of telling families to just so pound sand when that family is just trying to survive......especially when their problems are partly because of us.

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50 minutes ago, Ulty said:

 

Now that you are thinking about return on investment, give some critical thought to the wall and what that ROI might look like.

 

As I stated before on here, it's another deterrent. If it's consistently installed throughout the southern border (or where an area's topography will allow), I believe it would cut down on illegal immigration (notice I didn't say eliminate). Besides, I'd rather be wasting money on our own soil, as opposed to throwing it away somewhere overseas.

 

 

45 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Hey, I've always been a huge proponent of pulling back from being the world police.  But, if we are actually going to pull back from aid to developing countries, then we need to make sure we are replacing the resource we are getting from that country.

 

And.....you don't want the same situation where we have in Honduras where we don't help out......and then we end up with refugees at our borders.

 

Sorry, I'm not in favor of telling families to just so pound sand when that family is just trying to survive......especially when their problems are partly because of us.

 

 

Why does aid have to be required to enter into a trade agreement with another country? Are we exchanging aid for exports? Maybe we are, I couldn't tell you. But, I would imagine that we're paying for other country's exports, while also supplying aid. 

 

And not receiving aid from the U.S. doesn't justify a country's population running to our doorstep. Not to me, anyways.

 

How are their problems because of us? Because we may choose to withdraw aid? Aiding other countries is not our responsibility.  And while I sympathize with those families, it simply isn't the responsibility of the U.S. to be every refugee's huckleberry. It's a very harsh truth, but a truth nonetheless. 

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I should have posted this last year when I first listened to the episodes, but please, please give all 3 podcast episodes a listen. It's a very good series from Radiolab, who always do an excellent job. It humanizes a lot of the issue of illegal border crossings, gives it some history, and puts a face on it. It's also on Spotify, so no excuses :lol:

 

A warning: Some parts are also very graphic. I'm not a squeamish person, but parts of the podcast made me nauseous even though it's just a radio program.

 

Border Trilogy Part 1

Border Trilogy Part 2

Border Trilogy Part 3

 

One thing that's really interesting is that they discuss how even though we've made it harder and much more deadly for people to cross illegally they still do it. It doesn't matter if there's a wall, if you make them cross the desert, climb a mountain; these people are that driven to come here for a better life. Also, we have no idea how many die trying, the desert literally swallows their bodies forever...

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1 hour ago, deedsker said:

So...you commented on my post without reading it. Seems about right.

 

You said  "And the wall stopped them." 

 

Not exactly illuminating. I asked you to further explain yourself. If you're incapable of that, just say so.

 

I've been more than willing to have a conversation with anyone on here.

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4 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

You said  "And the wall stopped them." 

 

Not exactly illuminating. I asked you to further explain yourself. If you're incapable of that, just say so.

 

I've been more than willing to have a conversation with anyone on here.

 

 

The reply was a little snippy, but his original post was a story about people tunneling under a wall.

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14 hours ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

You said  "And the wall stopped them." 

 

Not exactly illuminating. I asked you to further explain yourself. If you're incapable of that, just say so.

 

I've been more than willing to have a conversation with anyone on here.

Like Moraine said, I am sorry if it was snippy, but the article I linked to was all of a 2 minute read with a nice big picture of a hole tunneled under the wall. 

 

Hence, the wall stopped them sarcasm. On top of that, almost everyone who circumvented the wall, which did little to hinder them, still just went ahead and turned themselves in. They didn’t even try to hide in our country without making law enforcement aware of their actions.

 

So the broken part of our immigration policy, still gets the same number of people and cases to deal with, whether or not we have a wall.

 

I am sorry that wasn’t more clear.

 

tldr: wall does nothing to solve immigration issues example 1.

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