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Bernie Sanders introduces bold ten point plan for Democrats. Here are the ten points: 

1. Increasing the minimum wage to $15 an hour and indexing it to median wage growth thereafter. 
2. A path toward Medicare-for-all. 
3. Bold action to combat climate change. 
4. Fixing our broken criminal-justice system. 
5. Comprehensive immigration reform. 
6. Progressive tax reform. 
7.A $1 trillion infrastructure plan. 
8. Lowering the price of prescription drugs. 
9. Making public colleges and universities tuition-free and substantially reducing student debt. 
10. Expanding Social Security. 

 

 

I love most of these ideas (not really on board with the mandatory minimum wage, and feel that prescription drugs is only a part of fixing health care and should really be tied into #2), and would support them, if done correctly, 100%.

 

Here is an article expanding on his plan.   https://www.truthdig.com/articles/bernie-sanders-lays-out-bold-10-point-plan-for-democrats/

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1 hour ago, sho said:

1. Increasing the minimum wage to $15 an hour and indexing it to median wage growth thereafter. 

No
2. A path toward Medicare-for-all. 

I am more than willing to listen on this point.
3. Bold action to combat climate change. 

I'm on the side that agrees something needs to be done.  I would need to listen to their ideas to decide if I'm on board with them. 
4. Fixing our broken criminal-justice system. 

Everyone seems to agree this needs done.  I'm willing to listen to ideas.
5. Comprehensive immigration reform. 

Same as #4.
6. Progressive tax reform. 

This one concerns me.
7.A $1 trillion infrastructure plan. 

I would need to see ideas and what would be done with the trillion dollars.  We need to rebuild infrastructure.  The "$1 trillion" concerns me coming from someone who seems to think the government can never spend enough.
8. Lowering the price of prescription drugs. 

Of course I'm on board with this.  Let's see how he proposes to do it.
9. Making public colleges and universities tuition-free hell no.  and substantially reducing student debt  hell yes
10. Expanding Social Security. 

I would need to see what he means by this.

 

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2 minutes ago, sho said:

@BigRedBuster Curious as to why you are so adamantly opposed to free college?  If the Dem/Bernie plan was to make public university/college more affordable instead of free, would you more open to that?

I don't know about BRB but I am not for free college in all instances.

 

I could be up for free college to a trade or medical field or something that can be immediately used upon graduation.  

Also, a minimum GPA would have to be in place

Also, you get one crack at it.  

 

Probably some other parameters that would need to be in place but that's a good start

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1 minute ago, StPaulHusker said:

I don't know about BRB but I am not for free college in all instances.

 

I could be up for free college to a trade or medical field or something that can be immediately used upon graduation.  

Also, a minimum GPA would have to be in place

Also, you get one crack at it.  

 

Probably some other parameters that would need to be in place but that's a good start

 

I would be on-board with that, one chance, minimum GPA requirement, and I would add something like must complete the undergrad in 6 years.   I would add more parameters like must be an in-state school.   Otherwise pay a tbd out of state fee.  Grad school and beyond would require some fee as well for me.

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44 minutes ago, sho said:

@BigRedBuster Curious as to why you are so adamantly opposed to free college?  If the Dem/Bernie plan was to make public university/college more affordable instead of free, would you more open to that?

 

I am adamantly against free college to everyone.  I am a firm believer, that at that point in a person's life, they are an adult and they should have some skin in the game.  Also, from what I've experienced from my college years and seeing kids go off to college from other families, if a kid has everything free, a lot don't take it as serious and just use it as a chance to party 4 more years before starting to adult.  Look how many kids take free HS seriously now.  Many think it's a joke.  I have no desire to keep paying for those kids another 4 years and have them not take it seriously.  Meanwhile, I see kids who work part time jobs to pay for college...and they know the cost they are putting into it and they make sure they get out of it what they can.

 

This is the time people should be required to start investing in their own future and not just expect it to be handed to them.

 

Now, I also believe that the cost of higher education is way out of control and that is a direct cause of students having so much college debt.  That needs to be fixed.  Looking at UNL, a large part of the problem is the state government drastically cutting back on the amount they are willing to fund to the University.  If you look at the percentage of UNL the state funded when I was in school there in the late 80s compared to now, it's a fraction of what they used to fund.  Those costs have to be passed on to the students....adding to their debt.  The state benefits greatly from the state colleges, they should be funding them.

 

I am also all for need based financial aid.  We need to make sure we are doing what we can there.

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On 11/26/2018 at 8:00 AM, sho said:

Bernie Sanders introduces bold ten point plan for Democrats. Here are the ten points: 

1. Increasing the minimum wage to $15 an hour and indexing it to median wage growth thereafter. 
2. A path toward Medicare-for-all. 
3. Bold action to combat climate change. 
4. Fixing our broken criminal-justice system. 
5. Comprehensive immigration reform. 
6. Progressive tax reform. 
7.A $1 trillion infrastructure plan. 
8. Lowering the price of prescription drugs. 
9. Making public colleges and universities tuition-free and substantially reducing student debt. 
10. Expanding Social Security. 

 

 

I love most of these ideas (not really on board with the mandatory minimum wage, and feel that prescription drugs is only a part of fixing health care and should really be tied into #2), and would support them, if done correctly, 100%.

 

Here is an article expanding on his plan.   https://www.truthdig.com/articles/bernie-sanders-lays-out-bold-10-point-plan-for-democrats/

 

Interesting how a lot of what's in Bernie's "Bold" plan is commonplace throughout the rest of the developed world. 

 

Regarding the free college debate, I've always liked the proposal of making Community Colleges free. Go knock out your gen ed English, Math, Science and other bogus classes you'll never use for free,  and then move on to a bigger school for your BA/BS. 

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21 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I am adamantly against free college to everyone.  I am a firm believer, that at that point in a person's life, they are an adult and they should have some skin in the game.  Also, from what I've experienced from my college years and seeing kids go off to college from other families, if a kid has everything free, a lot don't take it as serious and just use it as a chance to party 4 more years before starting to adult.  Look how many kids take free HS seriously now.  Many think it's a joke.  I have no desire to keep paying for those kids another 4 years and have them not take it seriously.  Meanwhile, I see kids who work part time jobs to pay for college...and they know the cost they are putting into it and they make sure they get out of it what they can.

 

This is the time people should be required to start investing in their own future and not just expect it to be handed to them.

 

Now, I also believe that the cost of higher education is way out of control and that is a direct cause of students having so much college debt.  That needs to be fixed.  Looking at UNL, a large part of the problem is the state government drastically cutting back on the amount they are willing to fund to the University.  If you look at the percentage of UNL the state funded when I was in school there in the late 80s compared to now, it's a fraction of what they used to fund.  Those costs have to be passed on to the students....adding to their debt.  The state benefits greatly from the state colleges, they should be funding them.

 

I am also all for need based financial aid.  We need to make sure we are doing what we can there.

Agree with all of this. Parents and high schools need to better prepare their children for college. Student debt goes both ways. It seems ridiculous that at 18 I can get 80,000 dollars in student debt, but get denied a credit card due to no credit built up. The same student can do research and find a school that fits their budget and degree. 

 

The job market is already over-saturated with non essential/pointless degrees. Like Fru said, potentially pay for students to get elective credits in HS, and CC, then let them pay for their core classes at a university. 

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1 hour ago, Fru said:

Regarding the free college debate, I've always liked the proposal of making Community Colleges free. Go knock out your gen ed English, Math, Science and other bogus classes you'll never use for free,  and then move on to a bigger school for your BA/BS. 

 

20 minutes ago, Waldo said:

The job market is already over-saturated with non essential/pointless degrees. Like Fru said, potentially pay for students to get elective credits in HS, and CC, then let them pay for their core classes at a university. 

 

I'm willing to listen to ideas on community colleges and tech schools.  There are way too many kids going to 4 year schools and not enough going to these places to learn trades.  


However, I'm still not on board with just making it free like public HS.  I would say the kid needs to meet certain requirements like GPA, progress towards degree....etc.  Even then, they should pay something. Maybe something very minimal.  But, they should pay something.  If the kid goes below a minimum GPA, the funding gets cut off.

 

Another problem is that some CCs are nothing more than an athletic training ground for sports at the D1 level.  I knew a kid that went to Colby Community College on a track scholarship.  The academics were a complete joke and all they cared about was getting the kid into a D1 school no matter what it takes.  When he finally quit and tried getting into a bigger school, no place would take the credits.  Tax payers should not be paying for this.

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So @BigRedBuster, if the "free college" idea came along with parameters and stipulations that made it much more difficult to abuse, would you be open to the idea? 

 

Edit: nvm, you beat me to it haha.

 

 

I mostly agree with you in regards to a "completely free no questions asked" scenario but I don't think that's what anyone is seriously proposing. Now that I think about it, I actually like a sliding scale of financial burden sort of model. Maybe have some kind of standardization of costs, or an equal playing field of it needs to be at a state school or something and If you have a perfect GPA, hell yeah we'll use taxpayer money for you to go to college and get a degree. If you have a 3.5, you'll owe 15% of the cost of your education. So on and so forth.

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Education needs it's own thread.  It is one giant mess.  Parents and schools push kids to seek college degrees no matter the ability or desires of the kids.  Schools want butts in the seats to bring in more tuition.  High schools push "no fail" policies so they can get more kids into colleges even though they aren't prepared.  Our education system sucks, and I'm a teacher in that system.  

 

My sister is a professor at a university in Minnesota.  Over Thanksgiving she was telling me a story about a student in her department who was caught forging supervisor signatures on his internship evaluation forms.  Her colleague questioned some of the answers on the form so he went to the workplace to follow up.  That supervisor had never even met the student, let alone evaluate him.  It was immediately taken to administration to begin the expulsion process.  The "powers that be" responded to my sisters department that they should evaluate their internship processes because they can't afford to expel students for financial and appearance reasons.  The student is still enrolled in the department and knows that the university won't expel him....

 

I've also had students who were very excited about possibilities in welding and/or diesel mechanics.  There are many programs out there where kids can get a free education because companies are more than happy to pay for it so they can have workers.  These jobs can pay $50,000-$70,000 to start; for a 21-year-old kid with no college debt.  But the students tell me their parents believe they should go to a 4-year college because "they're better than that".   A lot of these kids will rack up $60,000 of debt or more to get their business management degree to come back home and be the shift supervisor at the local liquor store.  It is frustrating.  :bang

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16 minutes ago, Landlord said:

So @BigRedBuster, if the "free college" idea came along with parameters and stipulations that made it much more difficult to abuse, would you be open to the idea? 

 

Edit: nvm, you beat me to it haha.

 

 

I mostly agree with you in regards to a "completely free no questions asked" scenario but I don't think that's what anyone is seriously proposing. Now that I think about it, I actually like a sliding scale of financial burden sort of model. Maybe have some kind of standardization of costs, or an equal playing field of it needs to be at a state school or something and If you have a perfect GPA, hell yeah we'll use taxpayer money for you to go to college and get a degree. If you have a 3.5, you'll owe 15% of the cost of your education. So on and so forth.

 

I would at least be open to listening to this.  However, I have never heard Bernie claim anything like this is what he wants.  I only hear him ranting about "Free college for all"....for which, is what I originally said "NO" to in this thread.

 

Our HSs have the goal of educating everyone.  I still believe this is a good goal and we should continue this.  For instance, China only educates the top students.  The rest grow up uneducated.  I prefer the US system instead of China's.  (also something to keep in mind when comparing test results between countries).

 

However, not everyone is cut out for anything above that.  Some are....some aren't.  Quite honestly, some should be in the military or right into the work force.  It also shouldn't be a "right" for that student to be there.  Right now, problem kids can't be kicked out of HS because they have the "right" to be there.  College, of any kind, should be able to have people who are serious about being there and bettering themselves.  I believe making it "free" only adds to college being like HS with people who hold other people back.  

 

If the student has skin in the game of some kind, it weeds out at least some of the crap students that aren't there for the right reasons.....and hinder other's education.  I could see way more instances like what Funhusker described.  

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44 minutes ago, funhusker said:

Education needs it's own thread.  It is one giant mess.  Parents and schools push kids to seek college degrees no matter the ability or desires of the kids.  Schools want butts in the seats to bring in more tuition.  High schools push "no fail" policies so they can get more kids into colleges even though they aren't prepared.  Our education system sucks, and I'm a teacher in that system.  

 

My sister is a professor at a university in Minnesota.  Over Thanksgiving she was telling me a story about a student in her department who was caught forging supervisor signatures on his internship evaluation forms.  Her colleague questioned some of the answers on the form so he went to the workplace to follow up.  That supervisor had never even met the student, let alone evaluate him.  It was immediately taken to administration to begin the expulsion process.  The "powers that be" responded to my sisters department that they should evaluate their internship processes because they can't afford to expel students for financial and appearance reasons.  The student is still enrolled in the department and knows that the university won't expel him....

 

I've also had students who were very excited about possibilities in welding and/or diesel mechanics.  There are many programs out there where kids can get a free education because companies are more than happy to pay for it so they can have workers.  These jobs can pay $50,000-$70,000 to start; for a 21-year-old kid with no college debt.  But the students tell me their parents believe they should go to a 4-year college because "they're better than that".   A lot of these kids will rack up $60,000 of debt or more to get their business management degree to come back home and be the shift supervisor at the local liquor store.  It is frustrating.  :bang

Great post, I agree with all posted.  I am a teacher in a private school.  There probably needs to be a different thread.  This is a real problem that many outside of the "factory" need to know about the real story.

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Another possibly beneficial possibly detrimental effect of making certain colleges free is it would make a college degree less of a status symbol type of thing. There's good and bad ways that can go. There are currently too many jobs and fields that require a college degree when they really don't need to or have any good reason for it. However, the things where you really have no choice other than to have formal and quality education (medical fields for instance) could possibly suffer as far as quality of education.

 

Then again, that wouldn't be all schools. The people who want a great education would just choose to pay their own money for private college. Same way high school parents do now.

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