Dems Rebuild

[RedDenver]

A Clinton-era centrist Democrat explains why it’s time to give democratic socialists a chance
 

Quote

 

It’s not often that someone in this policy debate — or, frankly, any policy debate — suggests that their side should lose. So I reached out to DeLong to dig into the reasons for his position: Why does he believe that neoliberals’ time in the sun has come to an end?

The core reason, DeLong argues, is political. The policies he supports depend on a responsible center-right partner to succeed. They’re premised on the understanding that at least a faction of the Republican Party would be willing to support market-friendly ideas like Obamacare or a cap-and-trade system for climate change. This is no longer the case, if it ever were.

“Barack Obama rolls into office with Mitt Romney’s health care policy, with John McCain’s climate policy, with Bill Clinton’s tax policy, and George H.W. Bush’s foreign policy,” DeLong notes. “And did George H.W. Bush, did Mitt Romney, did John McCain say a single good word about anything Barack Obama ever did over the course of eight solid years? No, they f#&%ing did not.”

 

 

[Moiraine]

1 hour ago, RedDenver said:

A Clinton-era centrist Democrat explains why it’s time to give democratic socialists a chance
 

 

 

 

 

This has been my attitude on it for a long time now. Obama tried to work with the Republicans and got absolutely s#!t on by them and got nothing out of it. He should have tried to go far more left on some things since the Republicans couldn’t have been much worse than they already were.

[hskerprid]

The farther left this country slides the more it no longer even remotely resembles America. Don't kid yourselves either. Russia is sitting back and enjoying the demise of a once great nation. When do we become Americans again and realize that overly liberal ideas and overly conservative ideas are not to the answer.

The threat of our southern borders being overwhelmed by those that this country can't support is real. We're slowly being pulled apart from the inside.

I'm sure that I'll be chastised by the overwhelming majority of posters here that are liberal Democrats. Before you berate me and Pat yourselves on your backs with all the witty repartee that I'm about to receive. Remember this, during WWll America came together in an amazing way. We were all Americans working together. I GUARANTEE that would not happen now. What happened people?

[RedDenver]

21 minutes ago, hskerprid said:

The farther left this country slides the more it no longer even remotely resembles America. Don't kid yourselves either. Russia is sitting back and enjoying the demise of a once great nation. When do we become Americans again and realize that overly liberal ideas and overly conservative ideas are not to the answer.

The threat of our southern borders being overwhelmed by those that this country can't support is real. We're slowly being pulled apart from the inside.

I'm sure that I'll be chastised by the overwhelming majority of posters here that are liberal Democrats. Before you berate me and Pat yourselves on your backs with all the witty repartee that I'm about to receive. Remember this, during WWll America came together in an amazing way. We were all Americans working together. I GUARANTEE that would not happen now. What happened people?

Maybe you should look at the first sentence and realize that maybe you're contributing to the country not being able to come together.

 

And the part in bold is just untrue. The immigrants coming over the southern border are a tiny fraction of our population. Blaming them for our problems is just finding a scapegoat.

[hskerprid]

1 minute ago, RedDenver said:

Maybe you should look at the first sentence and realize that maybe you're contributing to the country not being able to come together.

 

And the part in bold is just untrue. The immigrants coming over the southern border are a tiny fraction of our population. Blaming them for our problems is just finding a scapegoat.

I never once said that they were. You're projecting. It's just one of many polarizing topics in our nation. Read the part about convservative ideas again.

[NM11046]

hskerprid I think more people here agree with you than not, s don't be so quick to put up the gloves. 

 

What I find interesting is that you feel the way that we get back to that normal is to become more conservative, go back to what worked in the 1940's.  Don't you think there is some value in recognizing that as the clock moves forward and the world changes, we have to change our approach and reevaluate what we need?  We need to reevaluate who we are ... we are not the same america as we were in the 1940's.  

 

BUT, if you think post WWII was an example worth looking at as a strong period in america, we had a big surge in immigration during that time, recognizing that the people suffering from horrific circumstances in Europe needed to get out and coming to america was a safe harbor.  Did you think that was part of what made us great then?  We had communities helping each other, women working in factories to support their families while husbands were overseas, government food kitchens, food stamps and rations etc.  A lot of what was happening then would be what some conservatives would disgustingly call "socialism" today.  Yet it's part of the glue that brought us together then.  Men came back and were awarded GI Bils and ways to purchase a first home.  It was a strong time for america, because we cared about all americans and helping each other out.   And we cared about the people who were new to our country, we wanted to welcome them and show them that what they heard about the US was real.  That it is the greatest country in the world, that opportunities are available for those that work hard.  

 

But if you attempted to roll any of those ideas out now you'd get accused of being a liberal and get to join the fun club here where we chastise people, berate them and then pat ourselves on the backs with witty repartee.

[Danny Bateman]

39 minutes ago, hskerprid said:

The farther left this country slides the more it no longer even remotely resembles America. Don't kid yourselves either. Russia is sitting back and enjoying the demise of a once great nation. When do we become Americans again and realize that overly liberal ideas and overly conservative ideas are not to the answer.

The threat of our southern borders being overwhelmed by those that this country can't support is real. We're slowly being pulled apart from the inside. 

I'm sure that I'll be chastised by the overwhelming majority of posters here that are liberal Democrats. Before you berate me and Pat yourselves on your backs with all the witty repartee that I'm about to receive. Remember this, during WWll America came together in an amazing way. We were all Americans working together. I GUARANTEE that would not happen now. What happened people? 

 

Your proposed solution seems to be continuing our aimless drift rightward in immigration policy towards outright cruelty and fear-based solutions and adopt sensible centrism on all other issues?

 

Trump and his ilk have successfully demagogued the immigration issue uch that a large chunk of the country just wants to get more restrictive and hostile to immigrants to feel safe, even if it's not actually effective and may, in fact, be harmful.

 

That post-WWI America you mentioned featured far more liberal policies than we've had for the past several decades. High top marginal tax rates. Lots of government intervention and initiatives on behalf of the people.  The advent of Medicare. Nixon created the EPA to protect our environment.

 

Ever since Reagan we've alternated between middle left and strongly conservative policy and we've still got several major problems my generation will have to deal with. Our governance hasn't addressed them and has in part contributed to them. It's entirely predictable that my generation would be more receptive to more liberal policies since we've largely just seen more conservative and centrist policies ignore these problems or make them worse.

[hskerprid]

34 minutes ago, NM11046 said:

hskerprid I think more people here agree with you than not, s don't be so quick to put up the gloves. 

 

What I find interesting is that you feel the way that we get back to that normal is to become more conservative, go back to what worked in the 1940's.  Don't you think there is some value in recognizing that as the clock moves forward and the world changes, we have to change our approach and reevaluate what we need?  We need to reevaluate who we are ... we are not the same america as we were in the 1940's.  

 

BUT, if you think post WWII was an example worth looking at as a strong period in america, we had a big surge in immigration during that time, recognizing that the people suffering from horrific circumstances in Europe needed to get out and coming to america was a safe harbor.  Did you think that was part of what made us great then?  We had communities helping each other, women working in factories to support their families while husbands were overseas, government food kitchens, food stamps and rations etc.  A lot of what was happening then would be what some conservatives would disgustingly call "socialism" today.  Yet it's part of the glue that brought us together then.  Men came back and were awarded GI Bils and ways to purchase a first home.  It was a strong time for america, because we cared about all americans and helping each other out.   And we cared about the people who were new to our country, we wanted to welcome them and show them that what they heard about the US was real.  That it is the greatest country in the world, that opportunities are available for those that work hard.  

 

But if you attempted to roll any of those ideas out now you'd get accused of being a liberal and get to join the fun club here where we chastise people, berate them and then pat ourselves on the backs with witty repartee.

I have no problem with LEGAL immigration. Chain migration is a real and very alarming realization that we need to deal with. 

[hskerprid]

12 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

Your proposed solution seems to be continuing our aimless drift rightward in immigration policy towards outright cruelty and fear-based solutions and adopt sensible centrism on all other issues?

 

Trump and his ilk have successfully demagogued the immigration issue uch that a large chunk of the country just wants to get more restrictive and hostile to immigrants to feel safe, even if it's not actually effective and may, in fact, be harmful.

 

That post-WWI America you mentioned featured far more liberal policies than we've had for the past several decades. High top marginal tax rates. Lots of government intervention and initiatives on behalf of the people.  The advent of Medicare. Nixon created the EPA to protect our environment.

 

Ever since Reagan we've alternated between middle left and strongly conservative policy and we've still got several major problems my generation will have to deal with. Our governance hasn't addressed them and has in part contributed to them. It's entirely predictable that my generation would be more receptive to more liberal policies since we've largely just seen more conservative and centrist policies ignore these problems or make them worse.

"His ilk" these types of characterizations are the reason that alot of the deplorables are beginning to rise up. I was speaking of the general consensus of the beliefs of Americans at the time. Not about policy and politics. 

[Danny Bateman]

10 minutes ago, hskerprid said:

"His ilk" these types of characterizations are the reason that alot of the deplorables are beginning to rise up. I was speaking of the general consensus of the beliefs of Americans at the time. Not about policy and politics.  

 

I"m perfectly fine using the term "ilk" to describe people who lie about immigrants to scare people into supporting bad policy.

[Ratt Mhule]

1 hour ago, hskerprid said:

The farther left this country slides the more it no longer even remotely resembles America. Don't kid yourselves either. Russia is sitting back and enjoying the demise of a once great nation. When do we become Americans again and realize that overly liberal ideas and overly conservative ideas are not to the answer.

The threat of our southern borders being overwhelmed by those that this country can't support is real. We're slowly being pulled apart from the inside.

I'm sure that I'll be chastised by the overwhelming majority of posters here that are liberal Democrats. Before you berate me and Pat yourselves on your backs with all the witty repartee that I'm about to receive. Remember this, during WWll America came together in an amazing way. We were all Americans working together. I GUARANTEE that would not happen now. What happened people?

 

So basically youre okay with the status quo because people in the middle wont try and get anything worthwhile accomplished. People going bankrupt when they get sick. Better hope you stay healthy. My guess is youre on medicare though #socialism. Student loan debt through the roof. Bet you didnt have that problem when you were younger, did you?

 

What are your thoughts on climate change? Because if they arent left leaning then youre really going to hate the migration from places that are unhabitable to places that are. Will the US be one of those places? Who knows. But some places in Australia were around 120 degrees during the polar vertex in the midwest. My guess is those places will be unlivable in 10-15 years. Where will those people go?

[BigRedBuster]

2 hours ago, hskerprid said:

The farther left this country slides the more it no longer even remotely resembles America. Don't kid yourselves either. Russia is sitting back and enjoying the demise of a once great nation. When do we become Americans again and realize that overly liberal ideas and overly conservative ideas are not to the answer.

The threat of our southern borders being overwhelmed by those that this country can't support is real. We're slowly being pulled apart from the inside.

I'm sure that I'll be chastised by the overwhelming majority of posters here that are liberal Democrats. Before you berate me and Pat yourselves on your backs with all the witty repartee that I'm about to receive. Remember this, during WWll America came together in an amazing way. We were all Americans working together. I GUARANTEE that would not happen now. What happened people?

I agree Russia is loving this. 

 

Wouldn't it be good to have a President who works with and believes his own intelligence community instead of believing the dictator in Russia who is an ex kgb agent.....and one who puts sanctions on Russia instead of taking them off?

[hskerprid]

52 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

I"m perfectly fine using the term "ilk" to describe people who lie about immigrants to scare people into supporting bad policy.

Well then, there's that wonderful smugness that most of to your"ilk" convey. I knew it wouldn't take long. Bad policy to you might be agreeable to someone else. But your closed minded reply shows your inability to have a reasonable conversation.

[hskerprid]

4 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I agree Russia is loving this. 

 

Wouldn't it be good to have a President who works with and believes his own intelligence community instead of believing the dictator in Russia who is an ex kgb agent.....and one who puts sanctions on Russia instead of taking them off?

I agree with you on that one. 

[Danny Bateman]

5 minutes ago, hskerprid said:

Well then, there's that wonderful smugness that most of to your"ilk" convey. I knew it wouldn't take long. Bad policy to you might be agreeable to someone else. But your closed minded reply shows your inability to have a reasonable conversation.

 

By the contrary, I'm not closed-minded, nor am I being smug. I'm merely attempting to challenge some of your beliefs.

 

As far as what's good or bad policy - the president and his supporters are flatly lying about the crisis on the southern border. The data doesn't support it. I'm not against effectively securing our borders - that is essential. But I'm not going to throw money down the toilet to enact ineffective solutions. The facts don't care about their feelings on the matter. If we're going to address something, we've got to be honest about it and use solutions that work.