What's up with all the militaristic stuff at games?

[kozzman555]

 

 

 

So other than extra tributes everywhere yesterday on Veterans Day weekend of all things, what "rituals" that normally occur on Saturdays at Memorial Stadium are "overkill" in your opinion??? The color guard and National Anthem? The flyover??? The recognition of the servicemen that executed said flyover???

 

Not calling unamerican or anything like that, just curious what is being overly "shoved down fans throats" in regards to military platforms. These are the normal three things that I see every Saturday that would even fall into your category.

 

Really confused here

Sure, there's your list. Mentions of Sept 11. There are others. It adds up. BTN has regular (and many) recruitment ads, the per-game Marines "Leader of the Week" for outstanding play, etc. After awhile it borders on being one long commercial.

 

 

Exactly. With out a draft you have to recruit people to join the military. Many people who watch football are in the demographic that the military is trying to reach. Not so much with "Dancing with the Stars" or "Golden Girls" reruns.

 

Same with beer commercials

 

 

True, without a draft you do need to recruit. Some might question how healthy it is for a society to foster and uphold a "warrior class" (for lack of a better name), but that's a whole other can of worms.

 

 

Hmm...some (you) might question how healthy it is for a society to foster and uphold a "warrior class"....

 

You explain a lot about yourself with this one sentence. You live in an echo chamber. All you hear is from other people who agree with you. I actually applaud you posting on here, probably knowing you're going to get some vehement disagreement. You're moving outside your comfort zone and that's a good start. Since you opened this door, or can of worms, allow me to burst through it.

 

If you, or anyone else, even question our society fostering and upholding a "warrior class" you haven't really seen much of this country or world. You've never seen horror. You've never seen evil. You've never seen a man use his own pregnant wife and mother as a human shield and fire from behind them (this happened). That is evil. That is horror. These things exist. You can't rationally explain why people do some of the things that they do. Like flying planes into buildings full of civilians. This accomplished nothing, except the loss of innocent lives. Suicide bombers targeting schools in Pakistan and India, knife attacks on the elderly in Israel, these are all evil actions that defy logic or reason.

 

We in the United States have mostly been spared from these horrors. It's not something we really fear happening to us on a daily basis. We don't have government sponsored execution squads rounding up and massacring people just because of their religion or because of who their grandparents were. We don't have government or religious sponsored rape or slavery (not anymore, thanks to our warrior class). We don't have those things because we have people here who are willing to step up and put their lives on the line to make sure that sh1t doesn't happen to anyone.

 

If this was some perfect utopia where, in the words of that turd Rodney King, we all got along, we wouldn't need our warrior class. And I can guarantee you, they would be happy to lay down their arms and live peacefully. But we don't live in that idyllic world. This isn't the Age of Aquarius. We live in a world that can be dirty and barbaric and vicious. We live in a world with warlords and dictators that need to be stopped so peaceful men and women can survive and prosper. If we didn't foster our warrior class, we would still be an English colony. We would see the Barbary coast still looting, pillaging and enslaving Christians for the crime of not being a Muslim. We would still have slavery. We would see a world taken over by Germany and Japan, slaughtering innocents and using them for medical testing. We would see a world where rampant hatred and intolerance is allowed to grow unchecked and continue to claim even more lives in the name of Allah. These men and women who stand up against these evils, who you appear to disdain, are what keep the wolves from your door and allow you to be disdainful of what they do. Until that day comes, when there is no more evil, that warrior class has got you covered.

 

Maybe my opinion is colored by my service, colored by the evil I've seen in Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe it is, but I doubt it. I think I can speak for most of us veterans when I say that we don't want a pat on the back or free food or a blow job (Edit: I lied, I'd totally take a blow job). It's not why we do this. But if some people want to take a minute and thank my brothers and sisters for doing what most people won't, do me a favor and shut the f#*k up.

 

Knap, you made a comment above this about honoring doctors and electricians and whomever. You're right, they do an important service to this country. There's a difference though. Nobody is actively trying to kill them. Veterans Day is about those that have been to war. It's not "Soldier's Day". It's Veterans Day. Lemme know when doctors have people trying to kill them on a daily basis. When that day comes, I'll be first in line shaking their hand for what they do.

Edited November 15, 2016 by kozzman555

[skersfan]

I made a pretty harsh response to your comments Knapplc. I have rethought making that statement, but comparing doctors, electricians and others to what the people that defend this nation do is insulting

 

Sorry Nebraska did not come up with the idea of playing the National Anthem before a game. Pretty much a tradition for as long as I can remember.

 

And where has it been proclaimed that you are the one to decide that it is inappropriate for it to be played, where it is to be played or when it is to be played. Opinions are like a$$hole$.

 

Sense of pride, bonding our country together. Those that have no real knowledge of what war truly is, and how close it is to our door step make statements that have been made in this thread.

 

Again pathetic.

[Landlord]

I made a pretty harsh response to your comments Knapplc. I have rethought making that statement, but comparing doctors, electricians and others to what the people that defend this nation do is insulting

 

Sorry Nebraska did not come up with the idea of playing the National Anthem before a game. Pretty much a tradition for as long as I can remember.

 

And where has it been proclaimed that you are the one to decide that it is inappropriate for it to be played, where it is to be played or when it is to be played. Opinions are like a$$hole$.

 

Sense of pride, bonding our country together. Those that have no real knowledge of what war truly is, and how close it is to our door step make statements that have been made in this thread.

 

Again pathetic.

 

 

What's the point of all of these questions that is relevant to this discussion?

 

Distracting guilt trips because people might have questions, not understand why something is done, or have different opinions, does not seem like part of the American spirit, imo.

[skersfan]

LOM,

 

I made a very harsh response, but deleted it, and wanted to let people know if they had read that I reconsidered my points.

 

I feel that the National Anthem is appropriate at a football game, base ball game. Knapple feels different, and states it quite often. His opinion is no more valid than mine.

 

And the list of employment opportunities he listed is a little different than being in the Military. Stating you will die for your country or taking the IBEW oath are a little different.

[Savage Husker]

Pretty certain the questions from the OP have been answered. Why the military tributes? (1) at Memorial Stadium, (2) on Veterans Day weekend. End of thread.

 

Also, pretty certain much of where this thread went and the redundant opinions of national pride and people questioning the anthem and anything patriotic at sporting events have been hashed over in the Lounge, at least one time before, if not a few times.

 

But hey, maybe since we honor him every year and it feels watered down, someone can start a thread on MLK Jr. weekend questioning why we honor such a person and the constant fight to end social injustices, and disrespect those who continue to support and those who have died for the cause, like mods decided to allow over Veteren's Day weekend just to cover the bases. You know what?? Nope, we shouldn't do that either, because that too would be disrespectful.

[AFhusker]

 

 

 

 

So other than extra tributes everywhere yesterday on Veterans Day weekend of all things, what "rituals" that normally occur on Saturdays at Memorial Stadium are "overkill" in your opinion??? The color guard and National Anthem? The flyover??? The recognition of the servicemen that executed said flyover???

 

Not calling unamerican or anything like that, just curious what is being overly "shoved down fans throats" in regards to military platforms. These are the normal three things that I see every Saturday that would even fall into your category.

 

Really confused here

Sure, there's your list. Mentions of Sept 11. There are others. It adds up. BTN has regular (and many) recruitment ads, the per-game Marines "Leader of the Week" for outstanding play, etc. After awhile it borders on being one long commercial.

 

 

Exactly. With out a draft you have to recruit people to join the military. Many people who watch football are in the demographic that the military is trying to reach. Not so much with "Dancing with the Stars" or "Golden Girls" reruns.

 

Same with beer commercials

 

 

True, without a draft you do need to recruit. Some might question how healthy it is for a society to foster and uphold a "warrior class" (for lack of a better name), but that's a whole other can of worms.

 

 

Hmm...some (you) might question how healthy it is for a society to foster and uphold a "warrior class"....

 

You explain a lot about yourself with this one sentence. You live in an echo chamber. All you hear is from other people who agree with you. I actually applaud you posting on here, probably knowing you're going to get some vehement disagreement. You're moving outside your comfort zone and that's a good start. Since you opened this door, or can of worms, allow me to burst through it.

 

If you, or anyone else, even question our society fostering and upholding a "warrior class" you haven't really seen much of this country or world. You've never seen horror. You've never seen evil. You've never seen a man use his own pregnant wife and mother as a human shield and fire from behind them (this happened). That is evil. That is horror. These things exist. You can't rationally explain why people do some of the things that they do. Like flying planes into buildings full of civilians. This accomplished nothing, except the loss of innocent lives. Suicide bombers targeting schools in Pakistan and India, knife attacks on the elderly in Israel, these are all evil actions that defy logic or reason.

 

We in the United States have mostly been spared from these horrors. It's not something we really fear happening to us on a daily basis. We don't have government sponsored execution squads rounding up and massacring people just because of their religion or because of who their grandparents were. We don't have government or religious sponsored rape or slavery (not anymore, thanks to our warrior class). We don't have those things because we have people here who are willing to step up and put their lives on the line to make sure that sh1t doesn't happen to anyone.

 

If this was some perfect utopia where, in the words of that turd Rodney King, we all got along, we wouldn't need our warrior class. And I can guarantee you, they would be happy to lay down their arms and live peacefully. But we don't live in that idyllic world. This isn't the Age of Aquarius. We live in a world that can be dirty and barbaric and vicious. We live in a world with warlords and dictators that need to be stopped so peaceful men and women can survive and prosper. If we didn't foster our warrior class, we would still be an English colony. We would see the Barbary coast still looting, pillaging and enslaving Christians for the crime of not being a Muslim. We would still have slavery. We would see a world taken over by Germany and Japan, slaughtering innocents and using them for medical testing. We would see a world where rampant hatred and intolerance is allowed to grow unchecked and continue to claim even more lives in the name of Allah. These men and women who stand up against these evils, who you appear to disdain, are what keep the wolves from your door and allow you to be disdainful of what they do. Until that day comes, when there is no more evil, that warrior class has got you covered.

 

Maybe my opinion is colored by my service, colored by the evil I've seen in Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe it is, but I doubt it. I think I can speak for most of us veterans when I say that we don't want a pat on the back or free food or a blow job (Edit: I lied, I'd totally take a blow job). It's not why we do this. But if some people want to take a minute and thank my brothers and sisters for doing what most people won't, do me a favor and shut the f#*k up.

 

Knap, you made a comment above this about honoring doctors and electricians and whomever. You're right, they do an important service to this country. There's a difference though. Nobody is actively trying to kill them. Veterans Day is about those that have been to war. It's not "Soldier's Day". It's Veterans Day. Lemme know when doctors have people trying to kill them on a daily basis. When that day comes, I'll be first in line shaking their hand for what they do.

 

[Moiraine]

The recent responders have made a lot of big assumptions about people without having any idea on whether they're true or not. Don't presume to know things about posters based on their questioning why uber patriotism is mixed with a silly game.

 

It's not weird or disrespectful to wonder why we go from pounding back some beers to thinking about people dying/fighting in war to pounding back more beers while watching a bunch of kids run into each other. It doesn't say the things about these posters that you think it does. Have you considered that they/we might find it disrespectful to soldiers that we're mixing the two? We're mixing something very serious and important with a game played by a bunch of college kids. Again, quit making wild assumptions about people you don't know anything about.

 

My dad and grandpa and great grandpa were in the military (dad was not drafted but enlisted during the Vietnam War) and I find it weird that people try to outpatriotic each other at football games. Thinking it's a weird juxtaposition is not disrespectful of anyone or anything and doesn't make me "pathetic" and it doesn't "explain a lot" about me. It explains one opinion I have about one thing.

 

I get sick and tired of people writing off others' opinions for erroneous reasons.

 

 

Kazz: the OP has already stated he was talking in general, and said it made more sense given it was Veterans' Day

 

Savage: Comparing this to celebrating MLK makes no sense. MLK is celebrated on a couple select holidays. We don't celebrate him at the beginning of every single sporting event we ever have. Not even on his birth/death dates do we do that.

[knapplc]

I always appreciate the level-headed, reasonable discussions we have on this board.

[khaake]

 

 

 

 

So other than extra tributes everywhere yesterday on Veterans Day weekend of all things, what "rituals" that normally occur on Saturdays at Memorial Stadium are "overkill" in your opinion??? The color guard and National Anthem? The flyover??? The recognition of the servicemen that executed said flyover???

 

Not calling unamerican or anything like that, just curious what is being overly "shoved down fans throats" in regards to military platforms. These are the normal three things that I see every Saturday that would even fall into your category.

 

Really confused here

Sure, there's your list. Mentions of Sept 11. There are others. It adds up. BTN has regular (and many) recruitment ads, the per-game Marines "Leader of the Week" for outstanding play, etc. After awhile it borders on being one long commercial.

 

 

Exactly. With out a draft you have to recruit people to join the military. Many people who watch football are in the demographic that the military is trying to reach. Not so much with "Dancing with the Stars" or "Golden Girls" reruns.

 

Same with beer commercials

 

 

True, without a draft you do need to recruit. Some might question how healthy it is for a society to foster and uphold a "warrior class" (for lack of a better name), but that's a whole other can of worms.

 

 

Hmm...some (you) might question how healthy it is for a society to foster and uphold a "warrior class"....

 

You explain a lot about yourself with this one sentence. You live in an echo chamber. All you hear is from other people who agree with you. I actually applaud you posting on here, probably knowing you're going to get some vehement disagreement. You're moving outside your comfort zone and that's a good start. Since you opened this door, or can of worms, allow me to burst through it.

 

If you, or anyone else, even question our society fostering and upholding a "warrior class" you haven't really seen much of this country or world. You've never seen horror. You've never seen evil. You've never seen a man use his own pregnant wife and mother as a human shield and fire from behind them (this happened). That is evil. That is horror. These things exist. You can't rationally explain why people do some of the things that they do. Like flying planes into buildings full of civilians. This accomplished nothing, except the loss of innocent lives. Suicide bombers targeting schools in Pakistan and India, knife attacks on the elderly in Israel, these are all evil actions that defy logic or reason.

 

We in the United States have mostly been spared from these horrors. It's not something we really fear happening to us on a daily basis. We don't have government sponsored execution squads rounding up and massacring people just because of their religion or because of who their grandparents were. We don't have government or religious sponsored rape or slavery (not anymore, thanks to our warrior class). We don't have those things because we have people here who are willing to step up and put their lives on the line to make sure that sh1t doesn't happen to anyone.

 

If this was some perfect utopia where, in the words of that turd Rodney King, we all got along, we wouldn't need our warrior class. And I can guarantee you, they would be happy to lay down their arms and live peacefully. But we don't live in that idyllic world. This isn't the Age of Aquarius. We live in a world that can be dirty and barbaric and vicious. We live in a world with warlords and dictators that need to be stopped so peaceful men and women can survive and prosper. If we didn't foster our warrior class, we would still be an English colony. We would see the Barbary coast still looting, pillaging and enslaving Christians for the crime of not being a Muslim. We would still have slavery. We would see a world taken over by Germany and Japan, slaughtering innocents and using them for medical testing. We would see a world where rampant hatred and intolerance is allowed to grow unchecked and continue to claim even more lives in the name of Allah. These men and women who stand up against these evils, who you appear to disdain, are what keep the wolves from your door and allow you to be disdainful of what they do. Until that day comes, when there is no more evil, that warrior class has got you covered.

 

Maybe my opinion is colored by my service, colored by the evil I've seen in Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe it is, but I doubt it. I think I can speak for most of us veterans when I say that we don't want a pat on the back or free food or a blow job (Edit: I lied, I'd totally take a blow job). It's not why we do this. But if some people want to take a minute and thank my brothers and sisters for doing what most people won't, do me a favor and shut the f#*k up.

[...]

 

Kozz, I was not verbose enough in my above statement and I think that led to a misunderstanding in what I meant by warrior class. huSKer had pointed out that without a draft you need to recruit. My can-o-worms comment questioning how healthy it was to foster and uphold a warrior class was not about the necessity or not about having a standing army, it was instead intended to relate to who we are relying upon to fill the ranks, where those people are coming from, and what are we doing to ensure that current and future defense needs are met.

Up through Vietnam, if the nation decided it was to wage war, people were largely simply conscripted and forced to fight it. After Vietnam, this system was replaced with one which relies upon voluntary enlistment, but such voluntary enlistment requires a stepped up marketing and recruitment effort along with a stepped up benefits and pay package to help convince people that they should enlist in the armed services.

From the point of view of the DoD, this has worked reasonably well. For the most part, the ranks have been kept full even through the numerous wars and conflicts we have found ourselves in since Vietnam. By relying upon volunteers rather than forced conscripts, moral is higher. Professionalism is higher. Turnover is lower, etc. But there is a question that should be asked: Is this actually better for society?

Is it a good thing that wide swathes of people can largely ignore our foreign entanglements because it does not affect them? Is it a good thing that the DoD deliberately markets to kids, with the intention that the messages speaking of honor, valor, and adventure will influence their decision to enlist once they are of age? Are there political ramifications for this marketing down the road as these kids reach adulthood regarding the proper purpose of military and how it should be used in the world, especially if they do not have to worry about such decisions directly affecting them?

This voluntary recruitment system has led to the warrior class that I spoke of, one that is largely set apart from the general population, and in some cases is not very representative of the general population (as military service tends to run in families). Is that actually a healthy thing? I tend to think it is not.

[Savage Husker]

Moiraine: As I said, everyone who has responded with "uber patriotism" and skepticism on why we do what we do has hashed their opinions over multiples times that we could practically write one another's responses. You can question why we do what we do, that's your prerogative but (1) this is the football forum, pretty weird this thread has made it this far without being moved (b) I'm not going to make a judgment on whether it's weird or not, but having such a large audience it makes sense to honor individuals - heck, some think protesting at a game is great because of the audience it garners. (Three) many people are able to separate the game from the recognition of our military and still appreciate both.

 

And no, I wasn't talking about why we sing the national anthem before a sporting event, but why there were militaristic tributes on BTN and at MEMORIAL Stadium on VETEREN'S DAY. These individuals don't get recognized daily, weekly, monthly either and exactly my point about MLK day.

[Husker Red Til Dead]

 

 

 

 

 

So other than extra tributes everywhere yesterday on Veterans Day weekend of all things, what "rituals" that normally occur on Saturdays at Memorial Stadium are "overkill" in your opinion??? The color guard and National Anthem? The flyover??? The recognition of the servicemen that executed said flyover???

 

Not calling unamerican or anything like that, just curious what is being overly "shoved down fans throats" in regards to military platforms. These are the normal three things that I see every Saturday that would even fall into your category.

 

Really confused here

Sure, there's your list. Mentions of Sept 11. There are others. It adds up. BTN has regular (and many) recruitment ads, the per-game Marines "Leader of the Week" for outstanding play, etc. After awhile it borders on being one long commercial.

 

 

Exactly. With out a draft you have to recruit people to join the military. Many people who watch football are in the demographic that the military is trying to reach. Not so much with "Dancing with the Stars" or "Golden Girls" reruns.

 

Same with beer commercials

 

 

True, without a draft you do need to recruit. Some might question how healthy it is for a society to foster and uphold a "warrior class" (for lack of a better name), but that's a whole other can of worms.

 

 

Hmm...some (you) might question how healthy it is for a society to foster and uphold a "warrior class"....

 

You explain a lot about yourself with this one sentence. You live in an echo chamber. All you hear is from other people who agree with you. I actually applaud you posting on here, probably knowing you're going to get some vehement disagreement. You're moving outside your comfort zone and that's a good start. Since you opened this door, or can of worms, allow me to burst through it.

 

If you, or anyone else, even question our society fostering and upholding a "warrior class" you haven't really seen much of this country or world. You've never seen horror. You've never seen evil. You've never seen a man use his own pregnant wife and mother as a human shield and fire from behind them (this happened). That is evil. That is horror. These things exist. You can't rationally explain why people do some of the things that they do. Like flying planes into buildings full of civilians. This accomplished nothing, except the loss of innocent lives. Suicide bombers targeting schools in Pakistan and India, knife attacks on the elderly in Israel, these are all evil actions that defy logic or reason.

 

We in the United States have mostly been spared from these horrors. It's not something we really fear happening to us on a daily basis. We don't have government sponsored execution squads rounding up and massacring people just because of their religion or because of who their grandparents were. We don't have government or religious sponsored rape or slavery (not anymore, thanks to our warrior class). We don't have those things because we have people here who are willing to step up and put their lives on the line to make sure that sh1t doesn't happen to anyone.

 

If this was some perfect utopia where, in the words of that turd Rodney King, we all got along, we wouldn't need our warrior class. And I can guarantee you, they would be happy to lay down their arms and live peacefully. But we don't live in that idyllic world. This isn't the Age of Aquarius. We live in a world that can be dirty and barbaric and vicious. We live in a world with warlords and dictators that need to be stopped so peaceful men and women can survive and prosper. If we didn't foster our warrior class, we would still be an English colony. We would see the Barbary coast still looting, pillaging and enslaving Christians for the crime of not being a Muslim. We would still have slavery. We would see a world taken over by Germany and Japan, slaughtering innocents and using them for medical testing. We would see a world where rampant hatred and intolerance is allowed to grow unchecked and continue to claim even more lives in the name of Allah. These men and women who stand up against these evils, who you appear to disdain, are what keep the wolves from your door and allow you to be disdainful of what they do. Until that day comes, when there is no more evil, that warrior class has got you covered.

 

Maybe my opinion is colored by my service, colored by the evil I've seen in Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe it is, but I doubt it. I think I can speak for most of us veterans when I say that we don't want a pat on the back or free food or a blow job (Edit: I lied, I'd totally take a blow job). It's not why we do this. But if some people want to take a minute and thank my brothers and sisters for doing what most people won't, do me a favor and shut the f#*k up.

[...]

 

Kozz, I was not verbose enough in my above statement and I think that led to a misunderstanding in what I meant by warrior class. huSKer had pointed out that without a draft you need to recruit. My can-o-worms comment questioning how healthy it was to foster and uphold a warrior class was not about the necessity or not about having a standing army, it was instead intended to relate to who we are relying upon to fill the ranks, where those people are coming from, and what are we doing to ensure that current and future defense needs are met.

Up through Vietnam, if the nation decided it was to wage war, people were largely simply conscripted and forced to fight it. After Vietnam, this system was replaced with one which relies upon voluntary enlistment, but such voluntary enlistment requires a stepped up marketing and recruitment effort along with a stepped up benefits and pay package to help convince people that they should enlist in the armed services.

From the point of view of the DoD, this has worked reasonably well. For the most part, the ranks have been kept full even through the numerous wars and conflicts we have found ourselves in since Vietnam. By relying upon volunteers rather than forced conscripts, moral is higher. Professionalism is higher. Turnover is lower, etc. But there is a question that should be asked: Is this actually better for society?

Is it a good thing that wide swathes of people can largely ignore our foreign entanglements because it does not affect them? Is it a good thing that the DoD deliberately markets to kids, with the intention that the messages speaking of honor, valor, and adventure will influence their decision to enlist once they are of age? Are there political ramifications for this marketing down the road as these kids reach adulthood regarding the proper purpose of military and how it should be used in the world, especially if they do not have to worry about such decisions directly affecting them?

This voluntary recruitment system has led to the warrior class that I spoke of, one that is largely set apart from the general population, and in some cases is not very representative of the general population (as military service tends to run in families). Is that actually a healthy thing? I tend to think it is not.

 

What are your thoughts on the NFL wearing pink for an entire month...

[Moiraine]

Moiraine: As I said, everyone who has responded with "uber patriotism" and skepticism on why we do what we do has hashed their opinions over multiples times that we could practically write one another's responses. You can question why we do what we do, that's your prerogative but (1) this is the football forum, pretty weird this thread has made it this far without being moved (b) I'm not going to make a judgment on whether it's weird or not, but having such a large audience it makes sense to honor individuals - heck, some think protesting at a game is great because of the audience it garners. (Three) many people are able to separate the game from the recognition of our military and still appreciate both.

 

And no, I wasn't talking about why we sing the national anthem before a sporting event, but why there were militaristic tributes on BTN and at MEMORIAL Stadium on VETEREN'S DAY. These individuals don't get recognized daily, weekly, monthly either and exactly my point about MLK day.

 

You haven't been paying attention to the last several posts on the topic. Most people understand it on a day like Veterans' Day. That isn't the topic anymore. I've never been to a football game on any day that didn't have some type of militarist pride or tribute thing going on. That's on top of the anthem.

 

That said your part b is a legitimate response.

[Moiraine]

One thing I think about when people post their combat experiences to legitimize their opinions is that for a long time women weren't even allowed to have those experiences.

 

I know it's different but it reminds me of every time someone posts that you can't have an opinion about football if you never played it.

 

Vets and current military should get paid a lot more. Whenever we make cuts to military it isn't outdated equipment and equipment production that gets cut. It's stuff that hurts members of the military. That would go a lot further than these showy things happening at meangingless sporting events where we all pat ourselves on the back for being supportive.

[Landlord]

Safe to say we've moved past the specific context of honoring veterans on Veteran's Day weekend. I don't think anybody on this board, or across our country (generally speaking), has any kind of issue with that.

 

 

What people don't really 'get' is what seems like the exploitation of a game for contrived patriotism, or the exploitation of patriotism for the sake of a game. In regards to the latter, that's one of my biggest distastes about the NFL. You think the NFL gives a sh#t about the military, or about breast cancer awareness? They care about their brand, and we buy in hook, line and sinker with merchandise purchases.

 

Regardless of whether or not you agree, can we at least agree that questioning these things isn't unpatriotic?

[knapplc]

Remember when it was a thing after 9/11 to wear an American flag pin in congress, and anyone who didn't was automatically labeled unpatriotic?

 

I feel like the one guy in congress who forgot his flag pin that day. Taking an unpopular stance is tough. I'm OK with it as long as people are willing to have a reasonable conversation about why.