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Trump Foreign Policy

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43 minutes ago, Clifford Franklin said:

Let's be honest, Trump doesn't actually understand what he's doing, not in the slightest. He understands the JCPOA to the extent it has been downsized on Fox News. That is the only prism through which he's ever understood this pact. Oh, and he understands it was implemented under Obama, whom he hates.

 

This is a sterling example of a man who doesn't understand a lick of what he's doing being led astray by his party's talking points. The literal extent of his understanding is one part conservative rhetoric about how awful it is & one part Fox News vitriol. He's been aided & abetted by people who know better, like Pompeo & Netanyahu. Of course, the latter desperately wants the ability to posture more aggressively towards Iran. Both Netanyahu & Trump of course have their own domestic corruption problems they'd prefer to distract from, and this would be a useful way of doing so.

To the broader point in this thread - it's much easier to break things than it is to create them or fix them. Take Tillerson at the State Dept - showed up, drove out legions of our best talent, tried to dramatically cut their budget, was overruled on most everything by Trump, and left. Trump's been outstanding out the latter because it's easier. He's failed horribly at producing much in the way of new creations or solutions to serious problems we face, particularly in foreign policy. His domestic record isn't much better, IMO.

 

I'd love for an Iran Deal critic to go beyond the GOP Fox News talking points and explain why this is actually a smart move. Seems to me it's just another sad mark in his legacy of further isolating us & making us look weak & lost on the world stage.

The deal lifted the sanctions and normalized the Islamic Republic in exchange for NOTHING. The ink was barely dry on the deal and Iran unleashed the IRGC to wage proxy wars from Syria to Yemen. It was a s#!t deal imo.  We need massive, closely-enforced sanctions on everything Iran imports to shatter their economy. Once their people finally free themselves from the Mullahs, THEN we can deal.  Do sanctions work if Iran goes to China and Russia for help? Ask NK how that worked out.

 

The below article has what I would want as part of the pull out.  Would Trump agree to any of the below? I can't answer that.

 

"1. To negotiate a better deal, one that corrects the original agreement's flaws by including permanent restrictions on enrichment, a ban on ballistic missile development and a more intrusive inspection regime. 

 

2. To negotiate a bigger deal, one that not only fixes the flaws in the old deal but that also addresses Iran's malign regional activities. This factor - Tehran's support for terrorism, subversion, and Shiite expeditionary militias in Syria and Iraq - has transformed the region's security situation, alarming Arabs and Israelis alike

 

3. To launch a policy of regime change. This audacious approach would result from an assessment that the Tehran regime is so venal that no agreement with it is worthwhile. The president could argue that Iran's pursuit of regional supremacy poses a clear and present danger to U.S. interests. 

 

4. To implement a strategic retrenchment from the Middle East, shrinking America's exposure to the region's dangerous and insoluble problems. Obama may have designed the nuclear deal as a tool to extricate America from the Middle East swamp, but Trump could argue that we are as stuck there as ever. "Let us not be bound like Gulliver to a burdensome agreement that keeps us tied up in knots with Iran for years to come," one can envision the president declaring. "Let us be free to choose when and where we act.""

 

http://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/385536-if-trump-pulls-out-of-the-iran-deal-whats-our-new-strategy?amp=1

 

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5 minutes ago, GM_Tood said:

We need massive, closely-enforced sanctions on everything Iran imports to shatter their economy.

What government is going to sign up for that deal? That's not how diplomacy works.

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8 minutes ago, GM_Tood said:

Do sanctions work if Iran goes to China and Russia for help? Ask NK how that worked out.

Well, NK is still around 60 years later and now has nuclear weapons, so the exact opposite of what we'd want the outcome to be. So, based on that example, I'd say no, sanctions didn't work.

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11 minutes ago, GM_Tood said:

The deal lifted the sanctions and normalized the Islamic Republic in exchange for NOTHING. The ink was barely dry on the deal and Iran unleashed the IRGC to wage proxy wars from Syria to Yemen. It was a s#!t deal imo.  We need massive, closely-enforced sanctions on everything Iran imports to shatter their economy. Once their people finally free themselves from the Mullahs, THEN we can deal.  Do sanctions work if Iran goes to China and Russia for help? Ask NK how that worked out.

 

The below article has what I would want as part of the pull out.  Would Trump agree to any of the below? I can't answer that.

 

"1. To negotiate a better deal, one that corrects the original agreement's flaws by including permanent restrictions on enrichment, a ban on ballistic missile development and a more intrusive inspection regime. 

 

2. To negotiate a bigger deal, one that not only fixes the flaws in the old deal but that also addresses Iran's malign regional activities. This factor - Tehran's support for terrorism, subversion, and Shiite expeditionary militias in Syria and Iraq - has transformed the region's security situation, alarming Arabs and Israelis alike

 

3. To launch a policy of regime change. This audacious approach would result from an assessment that the Tehran regime is so venal that no agreement with it is worthwhile. The president could argue that Iran's pursuit of regional supremacy poses a clear and present danger to U.S. interests. 

 

4. To implement a strategic retrenchment from the Middle East, shrinking America's exposure to the region's dangerous and insoluble problems. Obama may have designed the nuclear deal as a tool to extricate America from the Middle East swamp, but Trump could argue that we are as stuck there as ever. "Let us not be bound like Gulliver to a burdensome agreement that keeps us tied up in knots with Iran for years to come," one can envision the president declaring. "Let us be free to choose when and where we act.""

 

http://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/385536-if-trump-pulls-out-of-the-iran-deal-whats-our-new-strategy?amp=1

 

 

This is insane. Why would Iran even come to the table to talk about any of these things?  China won't support Trump's sanctions. Russia won't support Trump's sanctions.  The EU won't support Trump's sanctions.  So they get nothing from America - oh well!  They have the rest of the world to negotiate with. 

 

There will be no "negotiate a better deal."  There will be no regime change.  And no matter how dangerous the Middle East is, we CANNOT leave it. To do so would be to give Russia and China all the more influence in the region.

 

My god, do people really believe any of that is possible now?  ESPECIALLY when everyone in that region thinks the United States is as guilty of #2 as any other nation in that region. 

 

I'm shocked that Vladimir Putin hasn't died from asphyxiation laughing that people actually believe any of this.  This has worked SO MUCH BETTER than he could have possibly imagined.

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4 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

This is insane. Why would Iran even come to the table to talk about any of these things?  China won't support Trump's sanctions. Russia won't support Trump's sanctions.  The EU won't support Trump's sanctions.  So they get nothing from America - oh well!  They have the rest of the world to negotiate with. 

 

There will be no "negotiate a better deal."  There will be no regime change.  And no matter how dangerous the Middle East is, we CANNOT leave it. To do so would be to give Russia and China all the more influence in the region.

 

My god, do people really believe any of that is possible now?  ESPECIALLY when everyone in that region thinks the United States is as guilty of #2 as any other nation in that region. 

 

I'm shocked that Vladimir Putin hasn't died from asphyxiation laughing that people actually believe any of this.  This has worked SO MUCH BETTER than he could have possibly imagined.

I guess we'll see wont we? 

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3 minutes ago, GM_Tood said:

I guess we'll see wont we? 

I would bet that things will continue on as they have the last few years. Iran will test boundaries with terror groups but not work towards nuclear capabilities. And this will all be in “spite” of Trumps decision, not because of it. Same as the Paris agreement; the world will be okay “in spite” of Trumps decisions.  Trump followers are cheering as he pulls the “greatest nation” on earth to the back of the pack.  I remember when American patriots made fun of France because of their lack of guts to lead in world altering affairs.

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In the last few years Iran has used its newfound Obama cash to spread its tendrils into Yemen, Syria, Iraq, and even deeper into Lebanon. Hezbollah is on steroids and sitting at the Israeli border in the Golan. The whole deal was predicated on Obama's naive belief that Iran would turn into some progressive, capitalist wonderland, and instead all they did was spend it on weapons and facestomping their citizens. It's like "Arab spring" level of stupidity, just even worse because we already knew Arab Spring was a total failure.

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21 minutes ago, GM_Tood said:

In the last few years Iran has used its newfound Obama cash to spread its tendrils into Yemen, Syria, Iraq, and even deeper into Lebanon. Hezbollah is on steroids and sitting at the Israeli border in the Golan. The whole deal was predicated on Obama's naive belief that Iran would turn into some progressive, capitalist wonderland, and instead all they did was spend it on weapons and facestomping their citizens. It's like "Arab spring" level of stupidity, just even worse because we already knew Arab Spring was a total failure.

Wait, wait, wait. Wasn't that exactly W's plan for Iraq? Somehow if we overthrew the regime, there would magically be democracy, capitalism, and freedom. And isn't overthrowing Iran's regime - so essentially the same plan - what you just advocated for above?

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43 minutes ago, GM_Tood said:

In the last few years Iran has used its newfound Obama cash to spread its tendrils into Yemen, Syria, Iraq, and even deeper into Lebanon. Hezbollah is on steroids and sitting at the Israeli border in the Golan. The whole deal was predicated on Obama's naive belief that Iran would turn into some progressive, capitalist wonderland, and instead all they did was spend it on weapons and facestomping their citizens. It's like "Arab spring" level of stupidity, just even worse because we already knew Arab Spring was a total failure.

 

Do you know any Iranians? Because I do, and this "facestomping their citizens" is a lie.  Or, if anything, it's no worse than someone from Iran taking all the police shootings in American and creating some false narrative about American cops "facestomping" us.  This is propaganda, pure & simple.  Iran isn't the bad guy the Republicans tell you they are. They're a convenient bogey man so we can fart up another war. 

 

51 minutes ago, GM_Tood said:

 

 

How in the WORLD does someone, out of one side of their mouth, denounce Iran for being a sponsor of terror in the Mideast, yet with a straight face post THIS as if it's some good thing? Do you have zero understanding of that region? At all?

 

Source 1

 

Source 2

 

Source 3

 

I'm not going to provide more. These were found in ten seconds, because I knew to look.  For the love of all that is holy, read something other than right-wing propaganda.

 

 

 

I have family from the country where the Arab Spring started. It was not "stupid." It was an honest attempt by good people to live better lives. 

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@GM_Tood Thanks for taking a swing at that. I don't consume conservative media much, certainly not their mainstream stuff, so I don't know how they're all reacting to this or what the spin is. I could venture a guess, but it's better to hear from someone else.

 

I'm afraid I fall along the same lines as Knapp on your proposals. I can't see anyone else getting on board with that when they have an international pact that they all already agree is working and is easily enforceable with the IAEA inspectors. What you're describing is a much more aggressive sanctions-based approach that will essentially cripple Iran if they don't meet our demands. Some of that stuff would happen in an ideal world, but as a whole it seems akin to extortion. Neither Iran nor our allies are going to try to demand those things, outside of Netanyahu, who I assume is on board with Trump no matter what at this point.

 

I'm not too shocked Saudi Arabia would applaud this. They both hate Iran & don't want to rock the boat with Trump.

 

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2 hours ago, commando said:

i have little hope that a new and improved deal will be made.

No I do not know any Iranians. But I did serve with IDF members that were killed by Iranian backed Hezbollah.  

 

My SA post was simply showing that a Strategic Ally to the US supports our stance on this deal. And since apparently you are the Middle East expert I wont need to go into any details on the US-Saudi strategic relationship.  

 

Your support of Iran tells me all i need to know. 

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