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@ZRod

 

Is there more before the quote? ‘Cause this doesn’t make the quote better. This is a tactic people use when they’re about to say something stupid, in order to try to cover their asses. 

 

Ya, looks like about the full transcript here and it changes nothing.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-kim-north-korea-dominated-wheezing-dmz-tucker-carlson

 

 

 

 

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“There’s no defending the North Korean regime, which is a monstrous regime, it’s the last really Stalinist regime in the world. It’s a disgusting place,” Carlson said during a phone call on “Fox & Friends” on Sunday morning.

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Just now, Moiraine said:

@ZRod

 

Is there more before the quote? ‘Cause this doesn’t make the quote better.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I fail to see how that makes this any better.

 

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"You've got to be honest about what it means to lead a country, it means killing people.

 

So, to lead a country, you have to kill people.  That is some how logical and the moral way to look at how to lead a country?  Let's be clear, we are not talking about KJU killing someone who they are at war with.  He is talking about KJU killing people within his own country whom he doesn't like, is opposed to him or simply does something that makes KJU look bad.

 

@ZRod  You're really stretching it here trying to defend this line of thought.

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20 hours ago, ZRod said:

Good God, I'm starting to get sick of this. The internet is starting to twist things too much in order to squeeze out what it wants to hear. Tucker actually has a point, and an ok one for once. We ally ourselves with some pretty s#!tty people to position ourselves where we want to be. I don't like it, and most of you don't either, but it's reality. Further more leading a nation means directing it's military, and guess what, people are going to die.

 

That being said I don't think there is anything redeemable about trying to work with North Korea, aside from freeing their people.

 

Yeah, I agree with ZRod here. While Tucker is making the point as part of his servile propaganda duties, it's the same point made by every honorable man who has held the office: the most unique and unavoidable responsibility of the job is sending young Americans to kill and be killed. If we're really doing this by the numbers, both Barack Obama and George W. Bush are on the hook for far more innocent deaths than Donald Trump. So far.  

 

Multiply this by the less honorable and accountable leaders around the world, and there's virtually no moral high ground to work with.

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4 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Yeah, I agree with ZRod here. While Tucker is making the point as part of his servile propaganda duties, it's the same point made by every honorable man who has held the office: the most unique and unavoidable responsibility of the job is sending young Americans to kill and be killed. If we're really doing this by the numbers, both Barack Obama and George W. Bush are on the hook for far more innocent deaths than Donald Trump. So far. 

Trump has also benefited from some of the most peaceful times in office. Bush had the 9/11 attacks and Obama dealt with the rise of ISIS territorial claims in the Middle East. Trump has had the capture of Mosul near the beginning of his term otherwise he has so far got away with provoking Iran (X minutes from striking a sovereign nation), hot and cold on North Korea (Rocketman), and embassy changes to Jerusalem and Palestinian border protests.

 

Maybe Trump gets through his term without any major wars, but I think that would be more a fluke than a feature of his time in office.

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2 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Yeah, I fail to see how that makes this any better.

 

 

So, to lead a country, you have to kill people.  That is some how logical and the moral way to look at how to lead a country?  Let's be clear, we are not talking about KJU killing someone who they are at war with.  He is talking about KJU killing people within his own country whom he doesn't like, is opposed to him or simply does something that makes KJU look bad.

 

@ZRod  You're really stretching it here trying to defend this line of thought.

Except he's not defending KJU actions. He's talking about Trump not being hung up on them, and the fact that we do and have done business with some pretty bad people. Now if we want to have a debate about that, I'm all for it and probably lock step with all of you. But I'm getting really tired of people taking small sound bites or quotes and distorting what is actually being said. It's getting to be really bad on social media platforms like Twitter and Reddit,  now I seeing it trickling in little by little here. 

 

The original tweet isn't even a quote, it's a mash up of two different streams of thought on the same topic

 

2 hours ago, Moiraine said:

@ZRod

 

Is there more before the quote? ‘Cause this doesn’t make the quote better. This is a tactic people use when they’re about to say something stupid, in order to try to cover their asses. 

 

Ya, looks like about the full transcript here and it changes nothing.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-kim-north-korea-dominated-wheezing-dmz-tucker-carlson

 

 

 

 

Stop cherry picking and look at the entire context.

 

Quote

“On the other hand, you’ve got to be honest about what it means to lead a country, it means killing people. Not on the scale that the North Koreans do, but a lot of countries commit atrocities including a number that we’re closely allied with.”

 

“And, it’s not necessarily a choice between the evil people and the great people. It’s a choice most of the time between the bad people and the worse people. That’s just kind of the nature of life, and certainly the nature of power, and I do think that’s how the president sees it. He's far less sentimental about this stuff and maybe, I think, more realistic about it.”

 

If you want to have a debate about the last sentence then we are probably going to be in agreement, but the original tweet is out of context.

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13 minutes ago, ZRod said:

Except he's not defending KJU actions. He's talking about Trump not being hung up on them, and the fact that we do and have done business with some pretty bad people. Now if we want to have a debate about that, I'm all for it and probably lock step with all of you. But I'm getting really tired of people taking small sound bites or quotes and distorting what is actually being said. It's getting to be really bad on social media platforms like Reddit, and now I see it trickling in little by little here. 

 

 

Stop cherry picking and look at the entire context.

 

 

If you want to have a debate about the last sentence then we are probably going to be in agreement, but the original tweet is out of context.

 

 

I read the entire thing and the context has no affect on my feelings on that paragraph and it shouldn’t on yours. 

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1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Yeah, I agree with ZRod here. While Tucker is making the point as part of his servile propaganda duties, it's the same point made by every honorable man who has held the office: the most unique and unavoidable responsibility of the job is sending young Americans to kill and be killed. If we're really doing this by the numbers, both Barack Obama and George W. Bush are on the hook for far more innocent deaths than Donald Trump. So far.  

 

Multiply this by the less honorable and accountable leaders around the world, and there's virtually no moral high ground to work with.

 

 

 

That isn’t the point Carlson was making. He thinks we should be fine with Trump working with North Korea and that it’s silly to care that they’re torturing or killing hundreds of thousands because there are other countries that do bad things too.

 

None of us are the president. We can judge the president for wanting to work with a country that tortures hundreds of thousands even if we are allied with countries that torture hundreds. I didn’t give the government my okay for allying with those countries and they don’t hold a candle to North Korea. 

 

I feel like I’m being told I’m not supposed to use the guy’s own words.

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18 minutes ago, ZRod said:

Then you don't understand context, and you are clearly arguing at a strawman.

 

 

I understand context just fine. I don’t think you understand what a strawman argument is because that’s not what I’m doing.

 

The context doesn’t change the meaning I get from that paragraph. I think it means the same thing in isolation as it does among the rest of the words he used. I think it’s exactly how he feels.

 

I mentioned it before, but Carlson obsesses over 4 people dying in Benghazi. He cares about people dying if it’s under the right president, while ignoring numbers. 

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@ZRod

 

 

Let’s pretend this is all Carlson said:

 

Quote

“And, it’s not necessarily a choice between the evil people and the great people. It’s a choice most of the time between the bad people and the worse people. That’s just kind of the nature of life, and certainly the nature of power, and I do think that’s how the president sees it. He's far less sentimental about this stuff and maybe, I think, more realistic about it.”

 

 

Do you think Trump needs to choose North Korea?

 

Is there any difference between killing 100 people and killing 1?

 

 

This paragraph doesn’t make the other any better to me. I don’t approve of being allied with Saudi Arabia, so I can be pissed at someone for arguing in defense of what Trump is doing with North Korea right now. Because of what NK does to its citizens there is no defense for Trump praising its leader and going and meeting with him, and calling what NK does “mean” is despicable no matter the context. Even if I was okay with Saudi Arabia, they’re not nearly as bad to their citizens as NK so it’s still a s#!tty defense. 

 

 

The only argument I can make sense of is that what Carlson’s saying is okay because Trump’s intentions are good. He’s ignoring the attrocities for the greater good, to protect East Asia/the world. I’m aware of that but it doesn’t make me not find his comments ridiculous and disgusting. We don’t need to praise a country or its leader that does what NK does.

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He's whole freaking point is that Trump doesn't care about the dirty laundry of the people he is working with as long as he can advance his own interest. We all know this, we've seen it the last few years up close. I'm happy to discuss that issue, because I think we should care about that laundry.

 

The original tweet was out of context and a mashup of two different portions of the conversation. I pointed out that it was twisted. Then you come in, only reading the mashup, and begin commenting about how it means that Tucker is ok with people being killed. That is not at all what he said. His statement is that Trump doesn't care about that when he can get what he wants. I can't believe I have to explain a Tucker Carlson comment this much, and it's making me nauseous. 

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4 minutes ago, ZRod said:

He's whole freaking point is that Trump doesn't care about the dirty laundry of the people he is working with as long as he can advance his own interest. We all know this, we've seen it the last few years up close. I'm happy to discuss that issue, because I think we should care about that laundry.

 

The original tweet was out of context and a mashup of two different portions of the conversation. I pointed out that it was twisted. Then you come in, only reading the mashup, and begin commenting about how it means that Tucker is ok with people being killed. That is not at all what he said. His statement is that Trump doesn't care about that when he can get what he wants. I can't believe I have to explain a Tucker Carlson comment this much, and it's making me nauseous. 

 

Trump's pecuniary interests, not necessarily American interests, right? 

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1 hour ago, ZRod said:

Except he's not defending KJU actions. He's talking about Trump not being hung up on them, and the fact that we do and have done business with some pretty bad people. Now if we want to have a debate about that, I'm all for it and probably lock step with all of you. But I'm getting really tired of people taking small sound bites or quotes and distorting what is actually being said. It's getting to be really bad on social media platforms like Twitter and Reddit,  now I seeing it trickling in little by little here. 

 

The original tweet isn't even a quote, it's a mash up of two different streams of thought on the same topic

I still fail to see how the quote was taken out of context.  Can you please explain that?  You've said it's out of context, but that doesn't explain it.  

 

He explicitly said that to lead a country requires you to kill people.  Again, he's not talking about in war with an attacking country.  He's talking about people within his own country who the leader disagrees with.

 

How is that taken out of context?

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58 minutes ago, ZRod said:

He's whole freaking point is that Trump doesn't care about the dirty laundry of the people he is working with as long as he can advance his own interest. We all know this, we've seen it the last few years up close. I'm happy to discuss that issue, because I think we should care about that laundry.

 

The original tweet was out of context and a mashup of two different portions of the conversation. I pointed out that it was twisted. Then you come in, only reading the mashup, and begin commenting about how it means that Tucker is ok with people being killed. That is not at all what he said. His statement is that Trump doesn't care about that when he can get what he wants. I can't believe I have to explain a Tucker Carlson comment this much, and it's making me nauseous. 

 

 

A part of his point was that Trump thinks the gain is worth the cost (working with a country like NK). I don’t agree with him on that. I don’t think Trump cares about the torture. I doubt it enters his mind.

 

Another part is Carlson thinks people are making too big of a deal out of the mean things Kim is doing, because other countries/allies do mean things too.

 

To make it out to be not a big deal, even after using the oldest trick of the book “I don’t like X, but,” is something that should never be done by someone who gets to tag along with the president.

 

I can’t believe we keep getting asked by you to ignore that part because Carlson also said some other things, some of which backed up the very quote that was posted.

 

 

Lastly, I didn’t comment that Carlson is okay with people being killed. My sole comment was it’s getting easier to see how something like the Holocaust happens. The Holocaust didn’t happen because people were fine with murder. It happened because people were slowly desensitized and able to rationalize things - especially things they couldn’t see. Normal, non evil people. Things slowly got to how they were with the Holocaust, it wasn’t some sudden killing spree which a much larger # would have protested and stood up against. It started out small, with diminishing comments similar to calling torture a “mean” thing. That kind of comment should never under any circumstances be made. 

 

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All this over a Tucker Carlson spot on Fox & Friends. Wild.

 

Carlson is right, in a narrow sense. Anyone who leads a country and commands a military indirectly contributes to loss of human life when they utilize it.

 

However, I'm a bit confused what that has to do with North Korea. It seems like a weak deflection so he doesn't have to substantively critique Trump's North Korea strategy. Probably intentionally, because it's absurd and not working.

 

In this scenario, who exactly are the "bad" people and who are "worse" people? All I see is a vain old rich dude soaking up the limelight with a brutal dictator who flatters him. We've extracted nothing of value, given up military exercises and allowed the Norks to continue expanding their nuclear arsenal. Trump may be convinced he's winning bigly but that's just not reality.

 

Also, ZRod, my beef here was never with you. It was always with Carlson because I find him repugnant.

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