Landlord Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Moiraine said: Lots of Republicans seem to have a persecution complex. There is a very small, but somewhat legitimate, reason for this IMO (in the context of regular every day Americans who identify as Republican/conservative -- not in regards to politicians): Conservatism has lost the culture "war" in America. Because of a few reasons. The two biggest ones being the correlation of conservative/liberal ideas and rural/urban lifestyle, and also the rise of the internet, social media and general connectivity. The world and the country have become a much bigger and more connected place. What's interesting is that while conservatives (rural citizens) have a disproportionately powerful voice in government, liberals (urban citizens) have a disproportionately powerful voice in culture, because while the percentages of people who believe X vs Y might not really be all that different, cities seem to naturally be much more progressive, and cities are where the progression of technology, and specifically the technology of mass communication and the sharing of ideas with like-minded people all over, have incubated. Conservatives (rural citizens) very often feel forgotten, ignored, and more importantly feel unfairly mocked, scorned, and patronized to. A lot of that is imagined in their heads, and exacerbated by partisan news. But at least some fraction of it is legitimate. Most anyone who has or does live in a big city knows just how easy and effortless it is to start painting a mental picture in your head of how conservative/rural people are dumber, more ignorant, more uneducated, and more clueless than you are. I am entirely guilty of this. 2 Link to comment
Moiraine Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 7 hours ago, Landlord said: There is a very small, but somewhat legitimate, reason for this IMO (in the context of regular every day Americans who identify as Republican/conservative -- not in regards to politicians): Conservatism has lost the culture "war" in America. Because of a few reasons. The two biggest ones being the correlation of conservative/liberal ideas and rural/urban lifestyle, and also the rise of the internet, social media and general connectivity. The world and the country have become a much bigger and more connected place. What's interesting is that while conservatives (rural citizens) have a disproportionately powerful voice in government, liberals (urban citizens) have a disproportionately powerful voice in culture, because while the percentages of people who believe X vs Y might not really be all that different, cities seem to naturally be much more progressive, and cities are where the progression of technology, and specifically the technology of mass communication and the sharing of ideas with like-minded people all over, have incubated. Conservatives (rural citizens) very often feel forgotten, ignored, and more importantly feel unfairly mocked, scorned, and patronized to. A lot of that is imagined in their heads, and exacerbated by partisan news. But at least some fraction of it is legitimate. Most anyone who has or does live in a big city knows just how easy and effortless it is to start painting a mental picture in your head of how conservative/rural people are dumber, more ignorant, more uneducated, and more clueless than you are. I am entirely guilty of this. One big reason I think it's almost entirely imagined is because I should be in the group that thinks its marginalized/ignored/mocked/whatever, but I don't feel that way. I lived in a town of <10k people the first 30 years of my life. But I also grew up as the internet started to become widely available, so when I was 14 I started talking to all kinds of people that I ended up meeting in person who I may never have been in contact with if I'd been born 10 years earlier. I think it makes more sense to say that the world got smaller and more connected. That makes more sense to me. I think for some people (I'm thinking about me, really) this opened their eyes that people they may have been judgemental about are actually normal people, because they were actually able to talk to them now, and for others it made them really defensive and protective about the world they were used to before and so they dig in. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 13 minutes ago, Moiraine said: One big reason I think it's almost entirely imagined is because I should be in the group that thinks its marginalized/ignored/mocked/whatever, but I don't feel that way. I lived in a town of <10k people the first 30 years of my life. But I also grew up as the internet started to become widely available, so when I was 14 I started talking to all kinds of people that I ended up meeting in person who I may never have been in contact with if I'd been born 10 years earlier. I think it makes more sense to say that the world got smaller and more connected. That makes more sense to me. I think for some people (I'm thinking about me, really) this opened their eyes that people they may have been judgemental about are actually normal people, because they were actually able to talk to them now, and for others it made them really defensive and protective about the world they were used to before and so they dig in. I get frustrated about this issue because of what I have seen in my own experiences. I grew up in small town Nebraska. Went to UNL then moved to Des Moines for 15 years. I then moved back to small town Nebraska. In all of that, I've seen both sides of it. Most of my life, I've lived in small town America. My brother's family have all grown up in big cities like Philadelphia. Here I am as a college educated, successful (at least I think so) person with a career. But, when I'm around my nieces or their family friends, the attitude is very apparent that we are the small town hicks that obviously aren't as worldly as they are. I love their family to death and have fun with their friends. But...dang....the attitude just grates on me. Now, I also have seen the attitude of small town people towards urban people and it can be the same way. I wish this divide didn't happen in America. I think we would be a better country if we didn't look down at each other. 1 Link to comment
Moiraine Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 39 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: I get frustrated about this issue because of what I have seen in my own experiences. I grew up in small town Nebraska. Went to UNL then moved to Des Moines for 15 years. I then moved back to small town Nebraska. In all of that, I've seen both sides of it. Most of my life, I've lived in small town America. My brother's family have all grown up in big cities like Philadelphia. Here I am as a college educated, successful (at least I think so) person with a career. But, when I'm around my nieces or their family friends, the attitude is very apparent that we are the small town hicks that obviously aren't as worldly as they are. I love their family to death and have fun with their friends. But...dang....the attitude just grates on me. Now, I also have seen the attitude of small town people towards urban people and it can be the same way. I wish this divide didn't happen in America. I think we would be a better country if we didn't look down at each other. Actually that reminds me, I've experienced that/experience it from one person in the family and it's really weird because she grew up in a town smaller than me. But she lives in a city bigger than Omaha now. For whatever reason she had this idea in her head of Nebraska and meeting us didn't shake it. She will commonly ask questions like "Do they have a Whole Foods or Trader Joe's in Nebraska?" and then be amazed that yes, we do. She also expected us to all be staunch Republicans and just generally treats us like she assumes we're ignorant. Link to comment
TGHusker Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 13 hours ago, Making Chimichangas said: So the "Left" has been waging a "culture war" for the past 50 years???? What a load of crap. Many republicans, especially many of the far-right religious ones, are so mind-numbingly delusional it isn't funny anymore--it is downright scary. They see a "culture war" when in reality, all that is happening are people saying: *I'm not going to live like it is still 1952. *I'm not going to answer to some "god" who doesn't exist and if he does, probably doesn't care. *I'm not going to accept that I must think a certain way to be a patriot or an American. *I'm going to live my life, the way I see fit. *Having freedom means you protect the rights of others--especially when those "others" have beliefs opposite of yours. This "culture war" propaganda goes hand in hand with the religious right's utter delusion that there is a "demonic war" against christianity. There is no war, let alone demonic war against christianity. Any supposed christian who says stuff like this, ask them the following questions: *Who is preventing you from believing in god? *Who is preventing you from going to church? *Who is telling you that you cannot pray, on your own time? *Who is telling you that you will be punished, or retaliated against, for having faith? I want specific examples with the names, dates, and times of these events. Ironically enough, not a single christian who thinks there is a "demonic war", that I have ever met, can provide any proof that those questions I posed are happening to them. Why is that? Because it is all in their delusional and self-righteous minds. They literally imagine and dream up this non-existent persecution, then use these false facts to wage actual war on people who just want to live their life and be left alone. @TGHusker, I hope you don't take what I say as a personal attack against you or your faith--because it certainly is not. No offense taken. Let's face it - it is all about plantation politics. I see republican politics that have driven most of the war against Christians - how? I'm glad you asked. Wt the abortion issue the Repubs 'owned' the conservative Christian vote - got them firmly on the plantation. How do you get them to stay on the plantation?- by constantly creating the boggy man - whether it is Christmas parades vs Holiday parades, prayer in schools, etc. Are there individual cases where an individual's rights are infringed upon - I'm sure there are. Is it a wide spread conspiracy no. I know many of my Christian friends who would disagree. However, Christians here should go live in the middle east or China, or NK - then we will know what the demonic war is all about. The goal of Christian faith is to become more authentic, more Christ like - not more comfortable. It is during times of persecution that faith becomes stronger and purer. The clambering we hear from many here is the crying over a sliver in the finger in comparison to chopped off fingers or martyrdom in other countries. Our society is getting more pluralistic and I think we are experiencing the normal 'upheaval' of going through that cultural change. Is there a culture war - yes and no. The political parties on both sides want to push it as a wedge issue and to keep adherents on their plantations - Dem and Repub. However, in everyday life - I don't see people at war - we live and let live and we understand that there are differences. In my view, the demonic war isn't the 'cultural war' but the distraction from the Gospel and the mission of the church by getting us (Christians) to focus on these temporal issues of 'offense' instead of become Christ like and spreading the Gospel which is the Good news we share. In doing so, it turns people away from the Good News we are suppose to represent. The New Testament church, early believers and also martyrs though out the ages would tell today's American Christians to grow up a 'grow a couple' (ok they wouldn't have used those words!) With that said, Christians deserve to be at the table of public debate like everyone else and should get a fair hearing but we are in no place to demand exclusivity in policy. And besides, I'd find that having a conversation with Chimi around our favorite drink would be far more interesting than a conversation wt a clone of me - Understanding is better than being understood. Link to comment
Landlord Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 3 hours ago, BigRedBuster said: I get frustrated about this issue because of what I have seen in my own experiences. I grew up in small town Nebraska. Went to UNL then moved to Des Moines for 15 years. I then moved back to small town Nebraska. In all of that, I've seen both sides of it. Most of my life, I've lived in small town America. My brother's family have all grown up in big cities like Philadelphia. Here I am as a college educated, successful (at least I think so) person with a career. But, when I'm around my nieces or their family friends, the attitude is very apparent that we are the small town hicks that obviously aren't as worldly as they are. I love their family to death and have fun with their friends. But...dang....the attitude just grates on me. Now, I also have seen the attitude of small town people towards urban people and it can be the same way. I wish this divide didn't happen in America. I think we would be a better country if we didn't look down at each other. Even reading your post I had an initial internal temptation to scoff at Des Moines being considered "both sides" of it. Because I'm this arrogant kid who's lived in Atlanta and Chicago, and I want to condescendingly laugh at people who think Des Moines or Lincoln or Omaha are The Big City. So, like I said, that condescension is real, and it's the reason why there is some legitimacy to the frustration expressed by conservatives. Don't get me wrong - it goes both ways (all of my small town Nebraska friends on Facebook love talking about libtards and coastal elites, for example), but, the conservative/rural side of it can feel that they don't have the strength of numbers. It can feel daunting like all of culture, not just half of it, has decided you're backwards, foolish, stuck in time, and not relevant. Link to comment
NM11046 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 On 5/18/2018 at 10:25 AM, Fru said: He seems well loved by those who believe they're closest to God. Good god - that hair. Link to comment
Making Chimichangas Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 8 hours ago, TGHusker said: No offense taken. Let's face it - it is all about plantation politics. I see republican politics that have driven most of the war against Christians - how? I'm glad you asked. Wt the abortion issue the Repubs 'owned' the conservative Christian vote - got them firmly on the plantation. How do you get them to stay on the plantation?- by constantly creating the boggy man - whether it is Christmas parades vs Holiday parades, prayer in schools, etc. Are there individual cases where an individual's rights are infringed upon - I'm sure there are. Is it a wide spread conspiracy no. I know many of my Christian friends who would disagree. However, Christians here should go live in the middle east or China, or NK - then we will know what the demonic war is all about. The goal of Christian faith is to become more authentic, more Christ like - not more comfortable. It is during times of persecution that faith becomes stronger and purer. The clambering we hear from many here is the crying over a sliver in the finger in comparison to chopped off fingers or martyrdom in other countries. Our society is getting more pluralistic and I think we are experiencing the normal 'upheaval' of going through that cultural change. Is there a culture war - yes and no. The political parties on both sides want to push it as a wedge issue and to keep adherents on their plantations - Dem and Repub. However, in everyday life - I don't see people at war - we live and let live and we understand that there are differences. In my view, the demonic war isn't the 'cultural war' but the distraction from the Gospel and the mission of the church by getting us (Christians) to focus on these temporal issues of 'offense' instead of become Christ like and spreading the Gospel which is the Good news we share. In doing so, it turns people away from the Good News we are suppose to represent. The New Testament church, early believers and also martyrs though out the ages would tell today's American Christians to grow up a 'grow a couple' (ok they wouldn't have used those words!) With that said, Christians deserve to be at the table of public debate like everyone else and should get a fair hearing but we are in no place to demand exclusivity in policy. And besides, I'd find that having a conversation with Chimi around our favorite drink would be far more interesting than a conversation wt a clone of me - Understanding is better than being understood. To the bolded part: Well I am going to try and make it to a Nebraska home game this season...so...maybe. FYI...Duffy's was my favorite hangout while at UNL. Link to comment
Moiraine Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 50 minutes ago, Making Chimichangas said: To the bolded part: Well I am going to try and make it to a Nebraska home game this season...so...maybe. FYI...Duffy's was my favorite hangout while at UNL. How'd you end up in Idaho? Link to comment
Making Chimichangas Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 3 hours ago, Moiraine said: How'd you end up in Idaho? Well, long story short, my mom--through a series of events--moved to Boise. I graduated from UNL and had trouble getting a job. My money was running out so, I asked my mom if I could move in with her, temporarily, until I got back on my feet. Moved here, got a job, moved out of my mom's house and just stayed. Although disclaimer...I am wanting to get the hell out of this state soooo bad. But I can't seem to leave. This seems like my "hotel california." Link to comment
Landlord Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 Let us know if you're gonna make it back for a game and which one it will be Chimi. Plenty of Huskerboarders would like to have a drink or share a tailgate with you. Link to comment
TGHusker Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 14 hours ago, Making Chimichangas said: To the bolded part: Well I am going to try and make it to a Nebraska home game this season...so...maybe. FYI...Duffy's was my favorite hangout while at UNL. I won't make it - my wife has some health issues preventing travel. Hopefully next year when we play for a NC!! Link to comment
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