Jump to content


The Republican Utopia


Recommended Posts

 

 

 

What did you imagine, out of curiosity, and why?

I know I should let him or someone else reply but I think many feared his so-called socialist leanings. But now they're okay with someone who wants to silence the press/scientists(?). Doesn't jive.

I was asked to give my opinion. Not to make the case of why Trump deserves a pass.

I didn't say your were doing anything other than that. I was giving my opinion.

Link to comment

 

 

What did you imagine, out of curiosity, and why?

I figured the Bill of rights to be decimated i.e. speech, guns, due process etc., government control over personal property and the like. The rhetoric the dems were throwing with the help of main stream media and hollywood. It had seemed as if Obama was going to have carte blanche with his agenda, and the "right" could pound sand

 

Wow, that's fascinating.

 

My own perspective was a "meh." I don't think I really grasped the significance of what had happened, and I was young and not particularly engaged in politics. I was glad Obama had won.

 

Looking back and knowing what I know now, it would have been a time of celebration. I had shrugged at so much of what had happened in the Bush era. I wonder if I would have contributed to the feeling of crazy rhetoric being thrown around.

 

I really can't see it being that crazy in retrospect, however. There were the bailouts early on, a path Bush had started on and which perhaps weren't aggressive enough under Obama either. The other major plank of his first term was healthcare. I understood it little at the time, but am now glad we at least tried to catch up with the rest of the developed world. Status quos can be so hard to change.

 

Of course, the irony is that today the threats directed at speech, etc, aren't even oblique. The rhetoric of the new administration through their campaign and ongoing is unprecedented from either party. Obama '08 is probably more comparable to Bush '00.

 

I had my problems with Bush as well. The Patriot Act and TARP being the biggest.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment

He never closed gitmo...

 

I'm quite obviously referring to him signing an executive order that intended to close it within a year.

 

 

 

 

 

I figured the Bill of rights to be decimated i.e. speech, guns, due process etc., government control over personal property and the like.

 

Well, that's just absolutely absurd and has, nor had, no bearing on reality.

Link to comment

 

 

 

What did you imagine, out of curiosity, and why?

I know I should let him or someone else reply but I think many feared his so-called socialist leanings. But now they're okay with someone who wants to silence the press/scientists(?). Doesn't jive.

I was asked to give my opinion. Not to make the case of why Trump deserves a pass.

I didn't say your were doing anything other than that. I was giving my opinion.

 

I misunderstood then, my apologies

Link to comment

 

He never closed gitmo...

 

I'm quite obviously referring to him signing an executive order that intended to close it within a year.

 

 

 

 

 

I figured the Bill of rights to be decimated i.e. speech, guns, due process etc., government control over personal property and the like.

 

Well, that's just absolutely absurd and has, nor had, no bearing on reality.

 

HAAHAHAHAHA

Link to comment

 

 

I bet there is some, such as your self, that feel the exact same way a lot us did 2008. Being told that the president is going too "fundamentally change the country" was unsettling at best. I know its hearsay now but it wasn't as bad as I had imagined.

And I'm sure a LOT of people voted for Trump as the opposite of Obama. But the problem with this is, Obama never ran on a platform of fundamentally changing America. His 2008 platform was:

 

 

And I posted his platform. So you're right he used those words, and to you that means he said he was going to do things similar to what Trump has done in just his first few days:

 

Registering immigrants

Build a wall and make Mexico pay for it

Ban Muslims from entering America

Put a gag order in effect on America's government departments

Enable climate change deniers

Threaten "send in the Feds" on cities he disagrees with

 

These are not remotely the same things. One (Obama) was accused of being a dictator. The other (Trump) is actually in fact behaving like a dictator.

 

 

 

 

EDIT - just want to point out that, while it appears we may disagree politically, it is a pleasure to discuss this with someone who brings salient, supported facts to the discussion. Keep this up!

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment

I had my problems with Bush as well. The Patriot Act and TARP being the biggest.

Right there with you, brother. The strange thing is how on board I was with it all at the time.

 

Patriotism is one of those words that's so powerful, and so dangerous when co-opted. To hold patriotism and "total allegiance" to be our national bedrock...it's all nothing too new, I suppose, but a bit like a horror movie.

 

And I think it does inspire feelings of revulsion and horror in a lot of Americans. Even those of us who would disagree on many other policy points. It's just good to find common ground. (Echo knapp's edit above wholeheartedly ;))

Link to comment

Can somebody who has been throwing around the blame and own your vote admonishments explain exactly how that works now? 4 and 8 years ago all I heard was he is everyone's President. This country elected him via our process so everyone has to accept it. That seems to be a little different now. Also, exactly how does that work in a state like Colorado, where Trump received no electoral votes (Hillary won) but there were obviously many people who voted for Trump (I didn't btw). So, is it only in places where Trump received electoral votes that Trump voters are now the only liable voters? Or, is it all Trump voters? Or are people going to back the f#ck up off of this ridiculous blame game?

Link to comment

"Blame" is a harsh word. What are we going to do, haul BRI up in front of a tribunal and shine spotlights in his face?

 

The biggest thing I want those who voted for Trump to do is... not do it again. That's the end of the recrimination. We're not naming names, we're not blaming you. Just don't vote for that kind of candidate ever again. It looks like, from the last couple of days, BRI has swung around. I'm super happy with that.

 

I don't super appreciate being called out like that, especially when I wasn't part of that conversation, but what I've written above is the extent of that.

What if some feel he is doing a good job? Are they allowed to be mocked and spit at and tortured for supporting a candidate? I mean it seems like I will be shut down and called names for supporting a candidate. If he makes a mistake, so be it, are we not all human(Now if its military mistake that is a different story). My point is, if he runs again and wins people will be mad, if he says I am done after four years people will get mad and bash him regardless. Anyone ever thought about his feelings because he does have them and I feel he has been the most insulted president to run since...........Abe Lincoln. So why don't we all just get along, oh wait that won't happen because it is peoples mission to see a president fail then have him succeed. Did I support Obama? No, did I try to hope he would fail, no way I respected the president and allowed him his space before bashing him.

 

In the military guess what happens when you see a pic of the president, do you see graffiti on a pic of him? Nope, because they have a respect for the commander in chief and he is their boss. I challenge all to have a certain respect with our president no matter what your views are? Do you have to agree with him, no, do you have to like him, no. I feel as though we need to dig deep inside and respect the man, but you don't have to agree or disagree with him. If you want to call him out on an issue go ahead, by all means this is America but I feel people are panicking and using biases instead of looking forward to a great country.

End rant.

Super busy tonight so might not get responses back for a while.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment

 

 

What did you imagine, out of curiosity, and why?

I figured the Bill of rights to be decimated i.e. speech, guns, due process etc., government control over personal property and the like. The rhetoric the dems were throwing with the help of main stream media and hollywood. It had seemed as if Obama was going to have carte blanche with his agenda, and the "right" could pound sand

 

 

I recall the rhetoric over Obama/Dems & 2nd Amendment issues. Outside of massively unfounded propaganda, I do not recall anything Obama actually said in his campaign to justify his wanting to dismantle any of the other Amendments. What specifically made you believe the bolded?

 

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Speech, and the Press

Amendment 2 - The Right to Bear Arms

Amendment 3 - The Housing of Soldiers

Amendment 4 - Protection from Unreasonable Searches and Seizures

Amendment 5 - Protection of Rights to Life, Liberty, and Property

Amendment 6 - Rights of Accused Persons in Criminal Cases

Amendment 7 - Rights in Civil Cases

Amendment 8 - Excessive Bail, Fines, and Punishments Forbidden

Amendment 9 - Other Rights Kept by the People

Amendment 10 - Undelegated Powers Kept by the States and the People

 

 

This article sums it up fairly good

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/the-obama-legacy-an-assault-on-the-bill-of-rights/article/2601342

Link to comment

 

 

 

I bet there is some, such as your self, that feel the exact same way a lot us did 2008. Being told that the president is going too "fundamentally change the country" was unsettling at best. I know its hearsay now but it wasn't as bad as I had imagined.

And I'm sure a LOT of people voted for Trump as the opposite of Obama. But the problem with this is, Obama never ran on a platform of fundamentally changing America. His 2008 platform was:

 

 

And I posted his platform. So you're right he used those words, and to you that means he said he was going to do things similar to what Trump has done in just his first few days:

 

Registering immigrants

Build a wall and make Mexico pay for it

Ban Muslims from entering America

Put a gag order in effect on America's government departments

Enable climate change deniers

Threaten "send in the Feds" on cities he disagrees with

 

These are not remotely the same things. One (Obama) was accused of being a dictator. The other (Trump) is actually in fact behaving like a dictator.

 

 

 

 

EDIT - just want to point out that, while it appears we may disagree politically, it is a pleasure to discuss this with someone who brings salient, supported facts to the discussion. Keep this up!

 

Ditto Knapp

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment

 

I had my problems with Bush as well. The Patriot Act and TARP being the biggest.

Right there with you, brother. The strange thing is how on board I was with it all at the time.

 

Patriotism is one of those words that's so powerful, and so dangerous when co-opted. To hold patriotism and "total allegiance" to be our national bedrock...it's all nothing too new, I suppose, but a bit like a horror movie.

 

And I think it does inspire feelings of revulsion and horror in a lot of Americans. Even those of us who would disagree on many other policy points. It's just good to find common ground. (Echo knapp's edit above wholeheartedly ;))

 

“Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”

Mark Twain

 

and you as well Zoog

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment

 

"Blame" is a harsh word. What are we going to do, haul BRI up in front of a tribunal and shine spotlights in his face?

 

The biggest thing I want those who voted for Trump to do is... not do it again. That's the end of the recrimination. We're not naming names, we're not blaming you. Just don't vote for that kind of candidate ever again. It looks like, from the last couple of days, BRI has swung around. I'm super happy with that.

 

I don't super appreciate being called out like that, especially when I wasn't part of that conversation, but what I've written above is the extent of that.

What if some feel he is doing a good job? Are they allowed to be mocked and spit at and tortured for supporting a candidate? I mean it seems like I will be shut down and called names for supporting a candidate. If he makes a mistake, so be it, are we not all human(Now if its military mistake that is a different story). My point is, if he runs again and wins people will be mad, if he says I am done after four years people will get mad and bash him regardless. Anyone ever thought about his feelings because he does have them and I feel he has been the most insulted president to run since...........Abe Lincoln. So why don't we all just get along, oh wait that won't happen because it is peoples mission to see a president fail then have him succeed. Did I support Obama? No, did I try to hope he would fail, no way I respected the president and allowed him his space before bashing him.

 

In the military guess what happens when you see a pic of the president, do you see graffiti on a pic of him? Nope, because they have a respect for the commander in chief and he is their boss. I challenge all to have a certain respect with our president no matter what your views are? Do you have to agree with him, no, do you have to like him, no. I feel as though we need to dig deep inside and respect the man, but you don't have to agree or disagree with him. If you want to call him out on an issue go ahead, by all means this is America but I feel people are panicking and using biases instead of looking forward to a great country.

End rant.

Super busy tonight so might not get responses back for a while.

 

 

 

 

Serious question. The things Trump is doing were all on his platform. He discussed them many times, in the debates, in his stump speeches, in interviews, everywhere. We knew before the election that this is what he intended to do.

 

Who, then, should bear responsibility for Trump when he does the things he told you he was going to do? And if it isn't the people who voted for him, WHY NOT!?!?!????

Link to comment

 

 

 

What did you imagine, out of curiosity, and why?

I figured the Bill of rights to be decimated i.e. speech, guns, due process etc., government control over personal property and the like. The rhetoric the dems were throwing with the help of main stream media and hollywood. It had seemed as if Obama was going to have carte blanche with his agenda, and the "right" could pound sand

 

 

I recall the rhetoric over Obama/Dems & 2nd Amendment issues. Outside of massively unfounded propaganda, I do not recall anything Obama actually said in his campaign to justify his wanting to dismantle any of the other Amendments. What specifically made you believe the bolded?

 

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Speech, and the Press

Amendment 2 - The Right to Bear Arms

Amendment 3 - The Housing of Soldiers

Amendment 4 - Protection from Unreasonable Searches and Seizures

Amendment 5 - Protection of Rights to Life, Liberty, and Property

Amendment 6 - Rights of Accused Persons in Criminal Cases

Amendment 7 - Rights in Civil Cases

Amendment 8 - Excessive Bail, Fines, and Punishments Forbidden

Amendment 9 - Other Rights Kept by the People

Amendment 10 - Undelegated Powers Kept by the States and the People

 

 

This article sums it up fairly good

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/the-obama-legacy-an-assault-on-the-bill-of-rights/article/2601342

 

 

That was an article written in 2016 and takes a lot of liberties besides being way after either of Obama's elections. To be more explicit in my original question: During the 2008 and/or 2012 Presidential election cycles, what specifically did Obama say/do that made you believe he would be dismantling the Bill of Rights as you believed? I am trying to understand at the time cast your vote; anecdotal answer is fine...

 

I am not trying to pick on you and you are welcome to ignore this. I am interested in your response if you are willing to continue...

Link to comment
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...