The Republican Utopia

[BigRedBuster]

8 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said:

 

Yeah I think that's a good example. I also think there are countless examples I could point to where the "unintended consequences" of policy (I use quotations because you could argue in many cases that the politicians are getting the EXACT outcome they wanted or hoped for) completely outweighed any problem that it was trying to solve.

 

*The best example is the prohibition of marjuana and many of the sentencing laws around other drugs. Do I wish that no one would ever do drugs? Yes. But when the consequence of that policy is that tons of innocent people (which consists heavily of black and brown populations) end up serving long jail sentences when they've not harmed anyone else, that's a horrendous failure in policy.

 

*TARP & Covid relief - We were told in each of these instances that the world economy was going to collapse if nothing was done, and so we HAD to print trillions of dollars to bail out the banks, airlines, performing arts centers, etc. Then what happened with the money? A HUGE portion of it was used to facilitate corruption and fraud.

 

Those are just a couple off the top of my head, but you could go back and find countless examples of government setting out to solve a problem but making it worse and wasting billions or trillions of dollars. And do the politicians or bureaucrats ever get hit with the impact of those failures? No, the average American citizen does, and still somehow tens of millions of people become convinced that we should give MORE money to the most corrupt, wasteful, abusive organization in the world because that's somehow virtuous.

 

So TLDR version is: Government is inherently evil, and the types of people who seek positions of power within the government are almost always the types people you'd LEAST want to have that power. So no, I don't think that politicians, voters, bureaucrats, or the people at the top levels of any agency within government have the mental ability to make major policy decisions that benefit the populace without HORRENDOUS consequences.

 

 

I actually agree with a lot of what you said.  However, I don't believe government is evil.  I believe some people within the government are very bad people.  Government is dysfunctional because of that.  As members of the populace, we should be open to pointing out how horrible those people are when it's appropriate.  FYI....I'm typically a smaller government type person.

 

Problem is, way too many people get tied to a party and only believe what that party says.  That party convinces them that the other side is what is really evil in the world and trying to destroy everything that is good in the world. Neither side has a monopoly on good ideas or righteous morality.

 

In reality, the populace is made up of millions of people with a very wide range of life experiences that form their political beliefs.  Most of those beliefs are valid for that person's situation.  That's what makes a democracy run.  Where it goes haywire is when they feed off of disinformation from people who are seeking that power and people are too lazy to study up on a subject and find out what reality is.

 

A prime example is what people believe about gas prices.  So many people want to do the lazy thing of only blaming the president in office instead of actually studying the subject to see what is really going on.

[BigRedBuster]

5 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said:

 

Since you're so concerned about personal scandal in politicians, here's a fun one for you. Our depends-wearing president's daughter has excerpts in her diary saying that her father took showers with her that "were probably inappropriate" and that she admits to being sexually abused as a child. You should check that out.

Fine....I've said I'm not a fan of Biden and hope someone else is President after 2024.  If true, is it bad to be pointing that out?  Or, does that just make people sound like a psychopath?

[funhusker]

48 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said:

 

I think your 1st paragraph pretty much nails why both parties are complete and total a$$.

 

I also agree completely with your 2nd paragraph, but that begs the question: do you feel that the populace at-large, or the people who get elected, are both informed enough to form policy positions on major issues, or intelligent enough to understand the consequences of those decisions (both intended and unintended)?

Would it be so bad if politicians had to explain what they intended to do and strongly communicate those ideas instead of how much their opponents don't fit the party?

[Guy Chamberlin]

46 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said:

 

I don't believe I said the word psychopath nor called anyone that - I referred to the psychosis / psychotic rage that possesses never-trumpers - a psychosis that I don't see as a wide-spread problem within Trump loyalists, or at least nowhere near as pervasive.

 

Open your mind and look closer. 

 

btw....who did you end up voting for? 

[Lorewarn]

41 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

But you all still support Joe

 

 

I voted for Biden because he wasn't Trump, and wasn't as bad as Trump. Outside of that, I'm completely apolitical about the guy other than a general hope for whoever's in the office to not f#&% s#!t up too bad, which I share equally across all Presidents.

 

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, Enhance said:

The trouble is that I don't know how you inject this methodology it to our country's politics.

 

 

This will never happen, but here's one interesting way that you could theoretically inject this idea:

 

https://bigthink.com/the-present/malcolm-gladwell/

[ActualCornHusker]

20 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Fine....I've said I'm not a fan of Biden and hope someone else is President after 2024.  If true, is it bad to be pointing that out?  Or, does that just make people sound like a psychopath?

 

I'm sorry, I literally have no idea what you're even arguing.

 

16 minutes ago, funhusker said:

Would it be so bad if politicians had to explain what they intended to do and strongly communicate those ideas instead of how much their opponents don't fit the party?

 

I'm not sure what the root of your question is - I'd say that happens somewhat right now. Within the 2 parties you have various views on different topics, Yang being the most obvious example. 

 

14 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Open your mind and look closer. 

 

btw....who did you end up voting for? 

 

After the debates especially, there was no way I was voting for Trump or Biden, so I checked the box for Jorgensen although I'm not an enormous fan. I just couldn't bring myself to check the box for the "lesser of 2 evils."

[ActualCornHusker]

3 minutes ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

I voted for Biden because he wasn't Trump, and wasn't as bad as Trump. Outside of that, I'm completely apolitical about the guy other than a general hope for whoever's in the office to not f#&% s#!t up too bad, which I share equally across all Presidents.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This will never happen, but here's one interesting way that you could theoretically inject this idea:

 

https://bigthink.com/the-present/malcolm-gladwell/

 

I actually think Andrew Yang's idea of rank-choice voting would be far better than the system we have now. It could allow a 3rd party (maybe 4th & 5th) to really shake things up.

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, ActualCornHusker said:

I'm sorry, I literally have no idea what you're even arguing.

I'm not "arguing" anything.  I'm simply saying that pointing that out (if true) about a person in power of our government, doesn't make someone crazy or...whatever like you're implying about never Trumpers.  

 

2 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said:

After the debates especially, there was no way I was voting for Trump or Biden, so I checked the box for Jorgensen although I'm not an enormous fan. I just couldn't bring myself to check the box for the "lesser of 2 evils."

That's the attitude I took in the first Trump election against Hillary.  After 4 years of Trump, I couldn't just throw my vote away again.  Sometimes a change needs to be had.

2 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said:

 

I actually think Andrew Yang's idea of rank-choice voting would be far better than the system we have now. It could allow a 3rd party (maybe 4th & 5th) to really shake things up.

Agree.  But, the two parties will never allow that on the national stage.

[ActualCornHusker]

4 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I'm not "arguing" anything.  I'm simply saying that pointing that out (if true) about a person in power of our government, doesn't make someone crazy or...whatever like you're implying about never Trumpers.  

 

That's the attitude I took in the first Trump election against Hillary.  After 4 years of Trump, I couldn't just throw my vote away again.  Sometimes a change needs to be had.

Agree.  But, the two parties will never allow that on the national stage.

 

Exactly.

 

Edit to add: On your point about voting for Trump, I was in the same place. But Democrats are utterly unworthy of votes in my view so there was absolutely no way in hell I was checking the box for Biden.

Edited May 2, 2022 by ActualCornHusker
added response

[ActualCornHusker]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

Why would you want him to exit the public arena and never come back if he's so great for policy that you voted for him twice (assuming) and all the other BS that comes with him doesn't matter?

 

Oh yeah, was just skimming and wanted to authentically reply to this:

 

The reason Trump should step aside is because the Republican party has a rising leader in Desantis that is wildly popular that is FAR better at politics than Trump, has the fortitude not to be pushed around that the Rep base finds appealing about Trump but does so with tact, and doesn't have the personal baggage that Trump has. But of course 2024 will be another run for Trump's ego...

[BigRedBuster]

7 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said:

Edit to add: On your point about voting for Trump, I was in the same place. But Democrats are utterly unworthy of votes in my view so there was absolutely no way in hell I was checking the box for Biden.

It's the first time I've ever voted for a Democrat for President.  But, Trump and the ilk he ushered into Washington needed to be purged.  We've seen evidence of why since the election.

[ActualCornHusker]

Just now, BigRedBuster said:

It's the first time I've ever voted for a Democrat for President.  But, Trump and the ilk he ushered into Washington needed to be purged.

 

I can understand your sentiment about Trump, but to vote for Biden... He's corrupt and immoral in every way they claimed Trump was with hordes of evidence to prove it, and isn't even sentient. That's the part I really do not understand...

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said:

 

Oh yeah, was just skimming and wanted to authentically reply to this:

 

The reason Trump should step aside is because the Republican party has a rising leader in Desantis that is wildly popular that is FAR better at politics than Trump, has the fortitude not to be pushed around that the Rep base finds appealing about Trump but does so with tact, and doesn't have the personal baggage that Trump has. But of course 2024 will be another run for Trump's ego...

I would have at least listened to Desantis and then looked at who he was running against.  But, as someone who thinks government should stay out of business as much as possible, the Disney thing ruined it for me.  He might have the conservative ideas.  But, the vindictive attitude towards anyone who dares disagree with him......nope.

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, ActualCornHusker said:

 

I can understand your sentiment about Trump, but to vote for Biden... He's corrupt and immoral in every way they claimed Trump was with hordes of evidence to prove it, and isn't even sentient. That's the part I really do not understand...

I don't see them as equal.  When Joe does everything Trump has done to tear apart our form of government...then we can talk about being equal.

[ActualCornHusker]

2 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I don't see them as equal.  When Joe does everything Trump has done to tear apart our form of government...then we can talk about being equal.

 

sheesh...