Immigration Ban

[Moiraine]

36 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

You don't think any responsibility for what's happening on our falls on the Mexican government?

 

 

No. I don’t think they should try to stop people at the border unless they have a manhunt going on. Like RedDenver said that’d make it a prison. And like NM pointed out a lot of these people are from other countries than Mexico. 

 

I don’t think the US should bother stopping anyone entering Canada illegally either. If they want to leave that’s their prerogative and they can face the consequences they get if they’re caught by Canada. 

 

And lastly there’s no financial incentive to do so. I wonder if you’ve heard Trump too many times saying Mexico is sending people over the border. These are individuals deciding to leave. We have every right stopping them entering but it would be a waste of $ and in my opinion wrong for Mexico to forcefully stop them. They aren’t breaking Mexican laws by leaving and there shouldn’t be laws for leaving a country (unless you’re wanted and trying to escape punishment).

[B.B. Hemingway]

1 minute ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

No. I don’t think they should try to stop people at the border unless they have a manhunt going on. Like RedDenver said that’d make it a prison. And like NM pointed out a lot of these people are from other countries than Mexico. 

 

I don’t think the US should bother stopping anyone entering Canada illegally either. If they want to leave that’s their prerogative and they can face the consequences they get if they’re caught by Canada. 

 

And lastly there’s no financial incentive to do so. I wonder if you’ve heard Trump too many times saying Mexico is sending people over the border. These are individuals deciding to leave. We have every right stopping them entering but it would be a waste of $ and in my opinion wrong for Mexico to forcefully stop them. They aren’t breaking Mexican laws by leaving and there shouldn’t be laws for leaving a country (unless you’re wanted and trying to escape punishment).

 

Please don't accuse me of putting any stock into Trump's words....

[Moiraine]

24 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

Please don't accuse me of putting any stock into Trump's words....

 

 

I didn’t say you put stock into them, but I literally never heard anyone talking about Mexico stopping people crossing the border into the U.S. until he come along and now you’re posting that they should do so.

 

Some of his talking points seem to have a way of getting support from people who don’t like him. You support the wall too, IIRC, so I thought this might be something you listen to him on.

[RedDenver]

8 hours ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

It's oppressive to ask that masses of people not enter your country illegally? Now that's insane....

Ellis Island, and what's happening at our southern border are not equatable.

That is of course not at all what I'm talking about.

[B.B. Hemingway]

2 hours ago, Moiraine said:

You support the wall too, IIRC, so I thought this might be something you listen to him on.

 

So did some Democrat officials until Trump did.

[Moiraine]

Just now, B.B. Hemingway said:

So did some Democrat officials until Trump did.

 

 

The point of me bringing that up is to explain why I thought you may have come up with the opinion that Mexico should stop people leaving their country because you'd heard Trump say it, so this is entirely beside the point.

[B.B. Hemingway]

3 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

The point of me bringing that up is to explain why I thought you may have come up with the opinion that Mexico should stop people leaving their country because you'd heard Trump say it, so this is entirely beside the point.

 

Gotcha.

 

I probably didn't word what I meant the best way. I obviously don't have an issue with Mexicans "visiting" other countries. Entering the U.S. illegally, and taking advantage of government programs intended for U.S. citizens is what I don't appreciate.

[BigRedBuster]

This is a major factor in why there are so many people at our southern border wanting in.  They aren't carrying the drugs like Trump wants everyone to think.  They are fleeing gang violence that is funded by the drugs that come through our ports.

 

 

 

I believe that instead of funding at stupid idiotic wall, we should spend the money in these countries battling the top echelon of the drug cartels.  The people would be safer, happier and would want to stay in their own countries.

[Moiraine]

5 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

This is a major factor in why there are so many people at our southern border wanting in.  They aren't carrying the drugs like Trump wants everyone to think.  They are fleeing gang violence that is funded by the drugs that come through our ports.

 

 

 

I believe that instead of funding at stupid idiotic wall, we should spend the money in these countries battling the top echelon of the drug cartels.  The people would be safer, happier and would want to stay in their own countries.

 

 

 

I think making more drugs legal would go a long way.

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

 

I think making more drugs legal would go a long way.

 

I'm fine with legalizing marijuana.  I'm not fine with legalizing the sale and distribution of drugs like cocaine and meth.  The people who get caught using, shouldn't be thrown in jail, they should get treatment.  But, we should still battle these drugs being sold and distributed in the US.  That battle needs to be taken to the source, not the city streets in the US.

[NM11046]

No, instead we're going to take all money and support away from those countries.  Even though we had proof those investments had lessened people fleeing.

[ZRod]

30 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I'm fine with legalizing marijuana.  I'm not fine with legalizing the sale and distribution of drugs like cocaine and meth.  The people who get caught using, shouldn't be thrown in jail, they should get treatment.  But, we should still battle these drugs being sold and distributed in the US.  That battle needs to be taken to the source, not the city streets in the US.

Personally from what I've seen with coke, it's nothing compared to meth or heroin. It's on par with alcohol in my mind. Dangerous when abused, addictive, but the majority of the population who use it are ok. Granted that's only my opinion, I don't have any facts or figures to back that up.

[NM11046]

I actually feel the same ZRod, and I just listened to a neuroscientist this week on Fresh Air that talked about the varying actions and addictive qualities of (pot, heroin, coke, alcohol)  There wasn't much to grasp at in that transcript, but I did find this:

 

1. HEROIN - DEPENDENCE RATING: 2.89

Heroin is the king of all narcotics, so it comes as no surprise that it shows up as the world’s most addictive substance.

Heroin’s ability to quickly penetrate the brain, results in the surge of intense euphoria or the “rush” heroin addicts experience.

Also, heroin activates your brain’s reward system. It essentially tricks the brain into halting the production of reward feelings on its own, so that after a time, the user cannot experience any good feelings without the aid of the drug. This is why heroin users experience intense drug cravings when the drug is stopped.

Top this with severe withdrawal symptoms, and you’ve got the world’s most addictive substance. Variations or a synthetic version of heroin, like fentanyl, are also considered to be some of the most addictive drugs as well, if not more dangerous.

2. CRACK COCAINE -DEPENDENCE RATING: 2.82

Crack is the purest and most potent form of all cocaine. Appearing as yellowish-white rocks, it is often heated and smoked through a glass handpipe.

Like heroin, crack cocaine also activates the reward system and causes excess amounts of dopamine, the neurotransmitter in the reward circuit responsible for feelings of pleasure, to be released.

Smoking crack allows it to reach the brain faster than if it were snorted, resulting in an intense and immediate high that lasts about 15 minutes. Since the effects are so short-lived, users commonly smoke it repeatedly to sustain the high, which then leads to a faster onset of addiction. It is not uncommon for someone to become addicted after his or her first time trying crack cocaine.

3. NICOTINE - DEPENDENCE RATING: 2.82

Just because tobacco is legal does not mean we should underestimate the addictive potency of nicotine. According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse, nearly 35 million smokers want to quit each year, but more than 85% of those who try to quit on their own relapse– most within a week.

Half of the addictive nature of nicotine come from nicotine’s ability to activate the reward pathway by increasing levels of dopamine. Nicotine also mimics another chemical in the brain–the nicotinic receptors. Regular smoking reduces the number and sensitivity of these receptors and requires the user keep ingesting nicotine just to maintain normal brain function.

4. METHADONE - DEPENDENCY RATE: 2.68

Methadone is an opiate medication commonly used to treat a heroin or morphine addiction, so in a clinical setting, tolerance to this drug is considered beneficial. While the risk for addiction is low (less than 1%) when taken as prescribed and under medical supervision, people who use this medication recreationally can become addicted. Methadone’s effects are similar to the effects of heroin, but withdrawal from methadone is painful and difficult, often lasting longer than a month.

5. METHAMPHETAMINE = DEPENDENCY RATE: 2.24

Methamphetamine imitates not one but two important chemicals in the brain: dopamine and norepinephrine, the neurotransmitter responsible for feelings of alertness and energy (adrenaline).

Meth can release as much as 10 times the normal level of dopamine, and the excess of artificial norepinephrine suppresses natural adrenaline production–essentially messing up the chemical balance in the brain. Worse, methamphetamine can damage the dopamine and norepinephrine-releasing neurons, leading to a drastic decrease in their production.

Where does this lead to? You guessed it. Tolerance, cravings, and taking more meth.

6. ALCOHOL - DEPENDENCE RATE: 2.13

Alcohol affects two main chemicals in the brain that triggers addiction:

• Dopamine: Like the others, alcohol triggers the reward system and produces feelings of pleasure and satisfaction.
• Endorphins: Endorphins are the brain’s natural painkiller, and recent research is showing how increased levels of endorphins can increase the pleasurable effects of alcohol, especially in heavy drinkers.

Alcohol withdrawal is also among the worst of all drug withdrawals, so severe it could cause death. Just another reason why 17.9 million Americans were addicted to alcohol in 2010.

7. COCAINE - DEPENDENCE RATING: 2.13

Cocaine may not have the same withdrawal symptoms seen in alcohol addiction, but cocaine works in the same way: it messes with the amount of dopamine in the brain and causes intense cravings. Although smoking crack is the fastest way to get cocaine into your bloodstream, snorting cocaine isn’t that much behind. Powder cocaine also has a short high and rapid tolerance, granting it a spot in the top ten.

8. AMPHETAMINES - DEPENDENCE RATING: 1.95

Although amphetamines aren’t as addictive as meth, it still acts on the same reward circuit. Besides causing rapid tolerance and intense cravings, amphetamines offer an attractive array of effects: weight loss, confidence, euphoria, energy, and feelings of self-accomplishment. Abusers of Ritalin and Adderall not only find it hard to quit, they don’t even want to quit.

9. BENZODIAZEPINES - DEPENDENCE RATING: 1.89

Benzodiazepines such as Valium, Xanax and Klonopin increases the effectiveness of GABA, the brain’s “nerve calming” agent. (For once, we’re not talking about dopamine!) And, as usual, the body tries to compensate for the increase of GABA by lowering the sensitivity of GABA receptor cells. As the body continues to adapt, tolerance builds quickly, and when tolerance is high, quitting gets harder.

10. GHB - DEPENDENCE RATING: 1.71

Club drug, date rape drug, and designer drug, GHB is a synthetic version of GABA. GHB works by mimicking the effects of the natural chemical GABA–and you know where that goes. The effects of GHB has a short duration of 2-4 hours, but withdrawal is lengthy–often lasting 10-14 days. Quitting results in brutal withdrawal symptoms similar to alcohol withdrawal: delirium, insomnia, hallucinations, and soaring anxiety levels. Once users are hooked, addicts have to take the drug around the clock to avoid the rapid onset of withdrawal.

 

How Drugs Mess with Dopamine:
Dopamine is the drug that produces the feeling of satisfaction and well-being. Dopamine enters neurons by attaching to dopamine receptors. When a drug increases levels of dopamine, your body tries to balance out the excess dopamine by decreasing dopamine receptors. Consequently, when an individual stops taking the drug, dopamine levels drop drastically, which is why the individual craves the drug so much. After all, your body needs its dopamine.

[Danny Bateman]

5 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

This is a major factor in why there are so many people at our southern border wanting in.  They aren't carrying the drugs like Trump wants everyone to think.  They are fleeing gang violence that is funded by the drugs that come through our ports.

 

 

 

I believe that instead of funding at stupid idiotic wall, we should spend the money in these countries battling the top echelon of the drug cartels.  The people would be safer, happier and would want to stay in their own countries.

 

Our history in meddling in Central American affairs is pretty spotty, but I'm with you. The violence in these countries is very real.

 

I think we can all agree simply erecting a wall on the border and treating immigrants and asylum seekers as inhumanely as possible to try to scare them away from coming is both a poor use of resources and not likely to work.

 

But that's pretty much all there is to the Trump immigration doctrine.

[BigRedBuster]

Yep...blubbering idiot.