Immigration Ban

[bugeater17]

10 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

Steele reported his information to the FBI, CIA ect. You see, there is the difference. Trump did all of this secretly, then proceeded to try and hide it from intelligence agencies when asked about it. Hell he was warned that Russia would try to interfere and was told to contact FBI when they did. Instead he took the meeting with the Russians. I am no lawyer. I'm just a guy with common sense, and my common sense tells me a guy who has multiple ties to Russia, won't call them out for messing with our elections, believes their dictator leader over our inteligence agencies, lets them off the hook for sanctions, then after all of the heat he has taken over the course of his presidency, says he would do what he has been under fire for this whole time, he probably took some help from Russia.

 

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/12/trump-fbi-foreign-information-1362788

 

You didn't respond to my question. How was anything about what I said propaganda or inaccurate - because in fact none of it was. Again, I will ask, what was inaccurate about what I said. Just because it doesn't fit with your narrative doesn't mean its not accurate. 

 

[Nebfanatic]

2 minutes ago, bugeater17 said:

 

Yikes - and you are really trying to argue with me on this point? Nonetheless, and in short, Hillary's missing emails were from her time as secretary of state in which she stored on a private server / email and then deleted and white washed the system although under subpoena to produce. 

 

The DNC hacking was done later and revealed the rigging of the primary election against Bernie.

I love the superiority complex. Trump asked Russia to find her emails, 5 hours later Russia is hacking Clinton emails. Coincidence? Maybe I guess, but considering all the other Trump Russia contact.....again I'm a common sense guy.

 

https://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/439559-mueller-russian-hackers-targeted-clintons-personal-office-hours-after

1 minute ago, bugeater17 said:

You didn't respond to my question. How was anything about what I said propaganda or inaccurate - because in fact none of it was. Again, I will ask, what was inaccurate about what I said. Just because it doesn't fit with your narrative doesn't mean its not accurate. 

 

I never said it was inaccurate or propoganda, that was someone else. I responded to your idea that the DNC did the same which is completely false because Steele reported to the FBI. 

[BigRedBuster]

9 minutes ago, bugeater17 said:

Hillary's missing emails were from her time as secretary of state in which she stored on a private server /

You do realize Trump's own family is doing this.....right?

[bugeater17]

14 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

This.

 

 

Obama and Hillary did not have the FBI spy on Trump for their own political gain.  That is just a flat out trumped up propaganda piece of crap that Trump is begging for you to believe.  

 

Look, I honestly don't have that big of a problem with Trump meeting with someone who says they have dirt on a political opponent.  (I have a REAL problem with it once they realized it was gained illegally.  But, that's for another discussion).  That said,  Trump hired people with ties to Russia and the Ukraine.  He then meets with Russian officials over and over again.  The FBI found out about it.  If they didn't start investigating the Trump campaign and monitoring it, that would been a severe dereliction of duties on their part.  Trumpees now claim...well, the FBI should have told Trump about this.  Are you serious?  Do you seriously think the FBI walks in and tells everyone they are investigating about it?

 

Open your eyes.  Trump personally gains by you thinking the FBI is out to get him and is evil and Trump supporters are eating it up.  These people have done more for YOU as an American citizen than Trump will ever even dream of doing.  But, he's convincing you that they are horrible for personal gain.

 

And you say that I'm the one buying into propaganda. HA!

 

Did Trump reach out to Russia - No.

Did Trump act on anything that Russia wanted to offer - No.

Did the FBI politicize its investigation - Yes. The evidence is clear that the FBI and DOJ didn't properly vet the information contained in their FISA applications. The government spying on citizens without probable cause should be very concerning to you - but apparently its not. I don't even need to get into the political bias of the investigators because i'm sure this is all going over your head. But seriously, educate yourself on the abuses the Obama administration allowed to occur before trying to tell me the FBI has done more for me (especially under Obama) than Trump ever has dreamed of doing. Yes, there are very good FBI agents - some of which I know very well - but there were a few bad apples driving this matter and that is frightening especially in the FISA court issues.

 

[bugeater17]

8 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

I love the superiority complex. Trump asked Russia to find her emails, 5 hours later Russia is hacking Clinton emails. Coincidence? Maybe I guess, but considering all the other Trump Russia contact.....again I'm a common sense guy.

 

https://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/439559-mueller-russian-hackers-targeted-clintons-personal-office-hours-after

 

 

Again, go back to the statement you made and its clear you are commingling issues. 

[bugeater17]

6 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

You do realize Trump's own family is doing this.....right?

 

The private server thing really isn't my issue. The deleting, hiding and white washing of the server while under subpoena is my issue. 

[Nebfanatic]

2 minutes ago, bugeater17 said:

 

Did Trump act on anything that Russia wanted to offer - No.

 

I mean his people took this meeting with the idea they were going to gather dirt on Hillary.

[Danny Bateman]

Someone in this thread is successfully spinning the conversation back around to Hillary and the Democrats. I wonder if that serves some purpose?

 

Also, since it's getting into legal matters, I'll just leave this here. I'm not a lawyer, but I'll let the lawyers do the thinking for me on this matter.
 

 

[Nebfanatic]

2 minutes ago, bugeater17 said:

 

Again, go back to the statement you made and its clear you are commingling issues. 

No I'm not. Read the damn article posted. Trump says "I really hope Russia can find her 30,000 missing emails" then 5 hours later they are hacking Clintons emails. I don't care if they couldn't find the ones she wiped because those were from a different time. That isn't the point. The point is Trump asked for Russians to obtain Clintons emails then 5 hours later they are hacking her emails lol its pretty obvious. It may be simply coincidence but comsidering the hundreds of other contacts between Trump campaign and Russia, I don't think it is.

 

Do you think Putin is a more reputable source than our FBI and CIA on whether Russians messed with our elections? Your President does.

[bugeater17]

1 minute ago, Nebfanatic said:

No I'm not. Read the damn article posted. Trump says "I really hope Russia can find her 30,000 missing emails" then 5 hours later they are hacking Clintons emails. I don't care if they couldn't find the ones she wiped because those were from a different time. That isn't the point. The point is Trump asked for Russians to obtain Clintons emails then 5 hours later they are hacking her emails lol its pretty obvious. It may be simply coincidence but comsidering the hundreds of other contacts between Trump campaign and Russia, I don't think it is.

 

Do you think Putin is a more reputable source than our FBI and CIA on whether Russians messed with our elections? Your President does.

He is your president as well.

 

Do you seriously think if Trump was involved in some sort of conspiracy he would be poking fun at Hillary and the DNC on live TV and in public? I mean really? If anything, that is support for just the opposite and that he has no involvement because if he did he would't be requesting such in public. 

 

Do you think Russia messing with our elections actually changed the outcome? 

[bugeater17]

5 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

Someone in this thread is successfully spinning the conversation back around to Hillary and the Democrats. I wonder if that serves some purpose?

 

Also, since it's getting into legal matters, I'll just leave this here. I'm not a lawyer, but I'll let the lawyers do the thinking for me on this matter.
 

 

 

Again, you are changing what we are talking about and commingling issues. Simply put, there is a difference between conspiracy (what is being discussed in this thread) and obstruction (the tweet in your post). 

 

Reading comprehension has really gone out the window. 

[BigRedBuster]

6 minutes ago, bugeater17 said:

 

And you say that I'm the one buying into propaganda. HA!

 

Did Trump reach out to Russia - No. Yes, he specifically hired people in his campaign that had Russia/Ukraine ties.  Amazingly, shortly after that, Russia started reaching out to him and his campaign took it and loved it.  And....never reported anything to the FBI even though they knew the information was gained illegally inside the US.

Did Trump act on anything that Russia wanted to offer - No.  yes, he kept meeting with them and when there began to be investigations into it, he tried continually to impede the investigations.  

Did the FBI politicize its investigation - Yes. The evidence is clear that the FBI and DOJ didn't properly vet the information contained in their FISA applications. The government spying on citizens without probable cause should be very concerning to you - but apparently its not. I don't even need to get into the political bias of the investigators because i'm sure this is all going over your head. But seriously, educate yourself on the abuses the Obama administration allowed to occur before trying to tell me the FBI has done more for me (especially under Obama) than Trump ever has dreamed of doing. Yes, there are very good FBI agents - some of which I know very well - but there were a few bad apples driving this matter and that is frightening especially in the FISA court issues.  And there's the great propaganda Trump wants you to drink up.  Anyone and everyone who tries to even think about holding himself accountable is evil and an enemy of the state.  How DARE they even think of investigating anything he does.  How DARE they even think about looking at his tax returns.  Those are actions of enemies of the state.  Actions of people who are committing treason because they dare look into what he was doing.

 

It absolutely sickens me when the President demonizes people like our intelligence community.  The whole ties that have been trumped up with all of this as ties to the Obama administration is what is nothing but propaganda and people like you drink it up.  You completely ignore that the FBI actually was investigating both campaigns.  You choose to ignore the fact that the FBI let it be known they were investigating Hillary and that HELPED TRUMP GET ELECTED!!!!

 

It amazes me how far my former political party has fallen for nothing more than personal gain by Trump and they drink it up and back him 100%.  Everyone who ever even thinks about questioning him or investigating him are evil and unAmerican.   

 

 

12 minutes ago, bugeater17 said:

 

The private server thing really isn't my issue. The deleting, hiding and white washing of the server while under subpoena is my issue. 

 

Kind of like preventing people with information from testifying with what they know.

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, bugeater17 said:

 

Again, you are changing what we are talking about and commingling issues. Simply put, there is a difference between conspiracy (what is being discussed in this thread) and obstruction (the tweet in your post). 

 

Reading comprehension has really gone out the window. 

Not when the obstruction is part of the conspiracy.

[Nebfanatic]

8 minutes ago, bugeater17 said:

He is your president as well.

 

Do you seriously think if Trump was involved in some sort of conspiracy he would be poking fun at Hillary and the DNC on live TV and in public? I mean really? If anything, that is support for just the opposite and that he has no involvement because if he did he would't be requesting such in public. 

 

Do you think Russia messing with our elections actually changed the outcome? 

Trump is a bold man. Yes I do seriously think thats exactly what he did. And yes I do think Russia influenced the outcome. How bout you try reading the Mueller report for yourself. Barrs summary didn't tell you the whole story.

 

Mr. Russia ain't my president. 

[bugeater17]

2 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

 

Kind of like preventing people with information from testifying with what they know.

Everything you just put in red is propaganda. Was every appointment he made suppose to have no history with foreign gov'ts? When it became known Manafort had issues he was let go. Seriously, this disinformation you've been fed is laughable.

 

I don't think Trump is above the law by any means. If he actually did something wrong then he should be held accountable. But the investigators must also be held accountable and just because they are investigating a political opponent does not mean constitutional protections don't apply. If you are going to investigate him do so with unbiased investigators. Do so with investigators who aren't using the investigation as an insurance policy. Do so with actual verifiable facts and not those made up and/or paid for by a political opponent.