Immigration Ban

[Enhance]

This place is a massive echo chamber right now, and as I've said before, not without good reason. That being said there are 4 or 5 poster who mostly lean left that are driving down discussion. They are passionate about the issues (which is great), but the manner in which they respond doesn't help to further the conversation, or make opposing parties think about an issue from a different perspective. We all need to stop jumping to conclusions and ask questions to better understand each other.

Appreciate the perspective ZRod, but I would argue just the opposite is true, too. There are a handful of posters who lean right who spent the entirety of the last election season driving down discussion and I believe they've mostly been ostracized from the forum, with the occasional smart ass commentary sprinkled in every now and then.

 

Both parties are being imbeciles in their own respective ways.

[knapplc]

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/29/us/mit-syria-student-ban-trnd/

 

All through high school, the 18-year-old had one goal in mind: get an engineering degree from the prestigious Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

 

But Hassan is from Damascus, Syria. And Friday, he had his hopes crushed through no fault of his own.

If you want to argue that people like Hasan are harming America in ways other than killing people, that's your right. Find a way to support it.

 

Zoogs, I have no idea about this but does MIT not offer online courses? They might not, I thought that Harvard has/was still trying to hold out from doing that but I never checked. But, if his hopes ere to get a degree from MIT and if he can obtain that online, well, sounds like he might still be able to obtain those hopes.

 

 

 

If he would just drink from this other fountain, he could still quench his thirst. He just can't drink from the same fountain we drink from.

[BigRedBuster]

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/29/us/mit-syria-student-ban-trnd/

 

All through high school, the 18-year-old had one goal in mind: get an engineering degree from the prestigious Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

 

But Hassan is from Damascus, Syria. And Friday, he had his hopes crushed through no fault of his own.

If you want to argue that people like Hasan are harming America in ways other than killing people, that's your right. Find a way to support it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, I am not Jack Bauer but do you think that terrorists can do harm in more ways than just killing?

 

I don't know much about the human resources for terror groups but I am guessing they are not just looking to fill one job category.

every muslim must be a terrorists?

At no time did I say that. This is the problem with this thread and all of them. You are not asking a question you are being "that guy".

 

I simply said that not all terrorists kill people. There are lots of ways to help the evil.

 

with the vetting they go through to get in now absolutely none of the people from these countries has ever committed a terrorists act here in the united states....but they must all be stopped now because?????? ehh...nm. the united states is scared of them all because they COULD BE helping the bad guys and need to keep them all out i guess.

 

The US is not scared of them. The US is being careful. There is a difference.

 

and...they weren't being careful before?

 

This reminds me of when my wife yells at me for having a cup of coffee in the living room because she is so concerned I am going to spill it all over our carpet and leave a permanent stain. I've been married to her now for over 25 years, have drank coffee since before we were married. But, she remembers the one time right after we were married and lived in an apartment and I dribbled two spots on the carpet.

 

I guess I would ask this...are you more careful now, less careful now or the same? And, in those 25 years have you ever spilled again? If so, could it have been avoided?

 

I'm the same as I ever was. I'm careful because I don't want to stain the carpet. But, she sees me walk into the living room and OMG....THE CARPET IS DOOMED!!!!

 

And...no...I haven't spilled again.

[teachercd]

 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/29/us/mit-syria-student-ban-trnd/

 

All through high school, the 18-year-old had one goal in mind: get an engineering degree from the prestigious Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

 

But Hassan is from Damascus, Syria. And Friday, he had his hopes crushed through no fault of his own.

If you want to argue that people like Hasan are harming America in ways other than killing people, that's your right. Find a way to support it.

 

Zoogs, I have no idea about this but does MIT not offer online courses? They might not, I thought that Harvard has/was still trying to hold out from doing that but I never checked. But, if his hopes ere to get a degree from MIT and if he can obtain that online, well, sounds like he might still be able to obtain those hopes.

 

 

 

If he would just drink from this other fountain, he could still quench his thirst. He just can't drink from the same fountain we drink from.

 

Shoot, sorry! I misread it. I thought he was not a citizen. My bad!

[teachercd]

 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/29/us/mit-syria-student-ban-trnd/

 

All through high school, the 18-year-old had one goal in mind: get an engineering degree from the prestigious Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

 

But Hassan is from Damascus, Syria. And Friday, he had his hopes crushed through no fault of his own.

If you want to argue that people like Hasan are harming America in ways other than killing people, that's your right. Find a way to support it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, I am not Jack Bauer but do you think that terrorists can do harm in more ways than just killing?

 

I don't know much about the human resources for terror groups but I am guessing they are not just looking to fill one job category.

every muslim must be a terrorists?

At no time did I say that. This is the problem with this thread and all of them. You are not asking a question you are being "that guy".

 

I simply said that not all terrorists kill people. There are lots of ways to help the evil.

 

with the vetting they go through to get in now absolutely none of the people from these countries has ever committed a terrorists act here in the united states....but they must all be stopped now because?????? ehh...nm. the united states is scared of them all because they COULD BE helping the bad guys and need to keep them all out i guess.

 

The US is not scared of them. The US is being careful. There is a difference.

 

and...they weren't being careful before?

 

This reminds me of when my wife yells at me for having a cup of coffee in the living room because she is so concerned I am going to spill it all over our carpet and leave a permanent stain. I've been married to her now for over 25 years, have drank coffee since before we were married. But, she remembers the one time right after we were married and lived in an apartment and I dribbled two spots on the carpet.

 

I guess I would ask this...are you more careful now, less careful now or the same? And, in those 25 years have you ever spilled again? If so, could it have been avoided?

 

I'm the same as I ever was. I'm careful because I don't want to stain the carpet. But, she sees me walk into the living room and OMG....THE CARPET IS DOOMED!!!!

 

And...no...I haven't spilled again.

 

Well then the method that you had in place worked perfectly! No reason to change it.

[ZRod]

 

That being said there are 4 or 5 poster who mostly lean left that are driving down discussion. They are passionate about the issues (which is great), but the manner in which they respond doesn't help to further the conversation, or make opposing parties think about an issue from a different perspective.

 

 

It's great that you're not naming names so those people you're accusing can't defend themselves, and/or you don't have to provide proof of what you're accusing them of.

We're all adults here. I assumed I wouldn't have to name names, and we could all do a little self evaluation. Shame on me for thinking we could be mature and check ourselves without being publicly called out...

 

Enhanced, I totally agree with you. Never said that wasn't happening either. I just am trying to be objective, because while we saw it mostly from people on the right side of the isle, we are now seeing it from people on the left too, and the middle I suppose as well. If a reasonable guy like JJ has been driven out of here, what does that say? If BRI can't explain himself without being jumped on immediately what's the point?

[zoogs]

Zoogs, I have no idea about this but does MIT not offer online courses? They might not, I thought that Harvard has/was still trying to hold out from doing that but I never checked. But, if his hopes ere to get a degree from MIT and if he can obtain that online, well, sounds like he might still be able to obtain those hopes.

No. There is no substitute to obtaining a B.S. on campus from MIT. There is no sense in which this is not a big deal, and a serious derailment to his future plans.

[knapplc]

We're all adults here. I assumed I wouldn't have to name names, and we could all do a little self evaluation. Shame on me for thinking we could be mature and check ourselves without being publicly called out...

You're not being an adult by beating around the bush. An adult would gently discuss this with the person(s) they feel are harming the board. I've actually done this, recently, with people I thought were posting over-the-top things in P&R. They're welcome to confirm that private conversation if they like.

 

By making vague insinuations about this you're making the problem worse.

[zoogs]

Enhanced, I totally agree with you. Never said that wasn't happening either. I just am trying to be objective, because while we saw it mostly from people on the right side of the isle, we are now seeing it from people on the left too, and the middle I suppose as well. If a reasonable guy like JJ has been driven out of here, what does that say? If BRI can't explain himself without being jumped on immediately what's the point?

I disagree that either of those guys are being jumped on. They're not interested in carrying on some of these debates, which is fine. Well, BRI at least said this exactly yesterday.

 

P&R has never been about making claims and advancing arguments without then being expected to support them. But there's no animosity if you aren't interested in either. Participate in as little or much of the discussion as you like.

 

I'd also argue there is a difference between being objective and "enforcing the center." The White House cannot behave in any way possible and have this fixed as a legitimate side of the debate, thus implying that 'reasonable' people will not be too opposed to it. True objectivity is fixed. Of course, it's possible to stake out neutral or sympathetic positions to the Trump White House. It is, and should, be challenging to remain reasonable while doing so.

[teachercd]

 

Zoogs, I have no idea about this but does MIT not offer online courses? They might not, I thought that Harvard has/was still trying to hold out from doing that but I never checked. But, if his hopes ere to get a degree from MIT and if he can obtain that online, well, sounds like he might still be able to obtain those hopes.

No. There is no substitute to obtaining a B.S. on campus from MIT. There is no sense in which this is not a big deal, and a serious derailment to his future plans.

 

So, they do not offer a B.S. online?

[TonyStalloni]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/29/us/mit-syria-student-ban-trnd/

 

All through high school, the 18-year-old had one goal in mind: get an engineering degree from the prestigious Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

 

But Hassan is from Damascus, Syria. And Friday, he had his hopes crushed through no fault of his own.

If you want to argue that people like Hasan are harming America in ways other than killing people, that's your right. Find a way to support it.

 

Whenever an international process changes unfortunately there are a few that fall through the cracks. I hope the Syria problems can get resolved so the easlly vetted people can get their education. If his dream is MIT more power to him. His dream may be delayed for however long. He won't be the only student that took longer to get an education. I'm sure MIT will hold his spot.

[zoogs]

Are all of these incidents acceptable costs, Tony?

 

I can understand that there are costs that are inevitable when policy changes so drastically.

 

The question I have then is: what are the benefits?

 

The families that are now estranged, the many who are part of the fabric of our society who now find themselves outcast or physically denied entry, what is all this happening for?

[knapplc]

The question I have then is: what are the benefits?

 

 

We feel safer. We are not demonstrably safer, we were not demonstrably under any threat, we may never be under any threat from refugees, but all of that is irrelevant to how we feel.

[teachercd]

 

The question I have then is: what are the benefits?

 

 

We feel safer. We are not demonstrably safer, we were not demonstrably under any threat, we may never be under any threat from refugees, but all of that is irrelevant to how we feel.

 

Feeling safe is very important though, don't you agree?

[zoogs]

Is it your position that these human costs are worth a feeling of safety regardless of its basis in reality?