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1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

I wonder how AlGore squares his $300 million fortune, beach house (on the water) apt on the beach, made from demonizing fossil fuels, with the developing nations who rely on those cheap sources of energy for their livelihoods.  
 

If he was a true believer, Why wouldn’t he go down to just one mansion, fly commercial, not be employed by Apple of all companies, etc and live by his money scheming talk??  Probably because it doesn’t pay him as well as his current grift.  

 

 

 

Yeah...he's always been a climate activist that just never appeared like someone to take serious because he's a hypocrite.

 

I remember when he was at the top of his climate change crusade. He would rant about it telling everyone they need to use less fossil fuels, then go get in one of his multiple suburbans and drive off to one of his mansions.  

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3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Yeah...he's always been a climate activist that just never appeared like someone to take serious because he's a hypocrite.

 

I remember when he was at the top of his climate change crusade. He would rant about it telling everyone they need to use less fossil fuels, then go get in one of his multiple suburbans and drive off to one of his mansions.  

I actually respect the activists that lead the lifestyle congruent with their messaging.  They are walking the walk.   I don’t necessarily agree with their message but absolutely respect their opinion
 

I can’t stand the ones that tell everyone else what to do and what to give up while doing the opposite of what they preach with their multiple homes, more cars than they need, private jet flights, etc…live the lifestyle or shut the f#&% up imo.  

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2 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

I actually respect the activists that lead the lifestyle congruent with their messaging.  They are walking the walk.   I don’t necessarily agree with their message but absolutely respect their opinion
 

I can’t stand the ones that tell everyone else what to do and what to give up while doing the opposite of what they preach with their multiple homes, more cars than they need, private jet flights, etc…live the lifestyle or shut the f#&% up imo.  

 

Exactly.  If you're going to preach to the public about something, lead by example.  

 

It's the same as when Ted Kennedy was ranting about how we need to put wind farms up all over the midwest.  Meanwhile, he was fighting having one put up off the coast from his beach house because....he said it ruined his view.

 

I can be OK with wind farms.  But, don't promote them in my back yard unless you're willing to have them in your back yard.

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1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Exactly.  If you're going to preach to the public about something, lead by example.  

 

It's the same as when Ted Kennedy was ranting about how we need to put wind farms up all over the midwest.  Meanwhile, he was fighting having one put up off the coast from his beach house because....he said it ruined his view.

 

I can be OK with wind farms.  But, don't promote them in my back yard unless you're willing to have them in your back yard.

Ha!  I forgot about that deal with Ted!  "f#&% those wind farms, it blocks my view...also...where is my bourbon?"  

 

Oh and he also killed a lady but in that family only killing one lady probably makes you the "good son".

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2 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Exactly.  If you're going to preach to the public about something, lead by example.  

 

It's the same as when Ted Kennedy was ranting about how we need to put wind farms up all over the midwest.  Meanwhile, he was fighting having one put up off the coast from his beach house because....he said it ruined his view.

 

I can be OK with wind farms.  But, don't promote them in my back yard unless you're willing to have them in your back yard.

 

Liberals are the NIMBYest Karens around. 

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Interesting article about the rise of electrical vehicles and the potential shortage of lithium to run them as well as the potential environmental hazards of mining for the needed battery component.  So the million $$ question is how do we meet the environmental goals of clean air, while preserving the environment of the land and water?

Is there another type of battery being developed to take the place of a lithium battery?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/24/us-electric-vehicles-lithium-consequences-research

 

Quote

 

The US’s transition to electric vehicles could require three times as much lithium as is currently produced for the entire global market, causing needless water shortages, Indigenous land grabs, and ecosystem destruction inside and outside its borders, new research finds.

It warns that unless the US’s dependence on cars in towns and cities falls drastically, the transition to lithium battery-powered electric vehicles by 2050 will deepen global environmental and social inequalities linked to mining – and may even jeopardize the 1.5C global heating target.

 

But ambitious policies investing in mass transit, walkable towns and cities, and robust battery recycling in the US would slash the amount of extra lithium required in 2050 by more than 90%.

In fact, this first-of-its-kind modeling shows it is possible to have more transport options for Americans that are safer, healthier and less segregated, and less harmful mining while making rapid progress to zero emissions.

The research by the Climate and Community Project and University of California, Davis, shared exclusively with the Guardian, comes at a critical juncture with the rollout of historic funding for electric vehicles through Joe Biden’s Inflation Reduction and Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Acts.

Recognizing the harms of ‘white gold’

The global demand for lithium, also known as white gold, is predicted to rise over 40 times by 2040, driven predominantly by the shift to electric vehicles. Grassroots protests and lawsuits against lithium mining are on the rise from the US and Chile to Serbia and Tibet amid rising concern about the socio-environmental impacts and increasingly tense geopolitics around supply.

The US’s affinity for cars, especially big ones, and sprawling cities and suburbs where driving to work, school and shop is often the only option, gives its transition to electric vehicles major global significance.

No matter what path it chooses, the US will achieve zero emission transportation by 2050, according to the research. But the speed of the transition – as well as who benefits and who suffers from it – will depend on the number and size of electric vehicles (and batteries) Americans opt for going forward.

“Preserving the status quo might seem like the politically easier option, but it’s not the fastest way to get people out of cars or the fairest way to decarbonize,” said Thea Riofrancos, associate professor of political science at Providence College and lead author of the report.

Global lithium mining production has ramped up in recent years

 

“We can either electrify the status quo to reach zero emissions, or the energy transition can be used as an opportunity to rethink our cities and the transportation sector so that it’s more environmentally and socially just, both in the US and globally.”

“The report brings into light possibilities for a future without fossil fuels that minimizes mineral extraction and new harms to communities in lithium-rich areas,” said Pía Marchegiani, policy director at the Environment and Natural Resources Foundation in Argentina.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Interesting article about the rise of electrical vehicles and the potential shortage of lithium to run them as well as the potential environmental hazards of mining for the needed battery component.  So the million $$ question is how do we meet the environmental goals of clean air, while preserving the environment of the land and water?

Is there another type of battery being developed to take the place of a lithium battery?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/24/us-electric-vehicles-lithium-consequences-research

 

 

No matter what type of battery they produce, they will need a supply of the raw materials to make the batteries.  Billions of people living on Earth is going to have some environmental impact.  We need to make sure we are mining the lithium (until something else replaces it) as environmentally friendly as possible.

 

21 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

I've also never heard anyone explain what millions of electric cars will do to our existing electrical grid, which has plenty of issues already. 

My dream is still to someday own an electric car that is charged by plugging it into my house that is powered by solar panels on my roof.  I still think there is a vast opportunity to be innovative in how we produce and use solar energy.

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18 minutes ago, funhusker said:

Bring back the horse and buggy.  Then the oil tycoons will find profits in preserving prairie land for hay!!!

 

#gogreengograss

Then we can use the horse manure to turn out bio energy thus creating a perpetual energy producing form of transportation. :lol:

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3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

No matter what type of battery they produce, they will need a supply of the raw materials to make the batteries.  Billions of people living on Earth is going to have some environmental impact.  We need to make sure we are mining the lithium (until something else replaces it) as environmentally friendly as possible.

 

My dream is still to someday own an electric car that is charged by plugging it into my house that is powered by solar panels on my roof.  I still think there is a vast opportunity to be innovative in how we produce and use solar energy.

I am wondering what the latest developments are on the hydrogen car :dunno  Perhaps a H car would place less demand on lithium mining as the power isn't coming from just the battery.  The battery is used more for storage of energy and not as much for powering the vehicle - if I understand correctly. 

 

https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/how-do-fuel-cell-electric-cars-work

 

 

Hydrogen car image

 

How Do Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles Work Using Hydrogen?

Like all-electric vehicles, fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) use electricity to power an electric motor. In contrast to other electric vehicles, FCEVs produce electricity using a fuel cell powered by hydrogen, rather than drawing electricity from only a battery. During the vehicle design process, the vehicle manufacturer defines the power of the vehicle by the size of the electric motor(s) that receives electric power from the appropriately sized fuel cell and battery combination. Although automakers could design an FCEV with plug-in capabilities to charge the battery, most FCEVs today use the battery for recapturing braking energy, providing extra power during short acceleration events, and to smooth out the power delivered from the fuel cell with the option to idle or turn off the fuel cell during low power needs. The amount of energy stored onboard is determined by the size of the hydrogen fuel tank. This is different from an all-electric vehicle, where the amount of power and energy available are both closely related to the battery's size.

 

 

https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/fuel_cell.html

How Fuel Cells Work

 

The most common type of fuel cell for vehicle applications is the polymer electrolyte membrane (PEM) fuel cell. In a PEM fuel cell, an electrolyte membrane is sandwiched between a positive electrode (cathode) and a negative electrode (anode). Hydrogen is introduced to the anode, and oxygen (from air) is introduced to the cathode. The hydrogen molecules break apart into protons and electrons due to an electrochemical reaction in the fuel cell catalyst. Protons then travel through the membrane to the cathode.

The electrons are forced to travel through an external circuit to perform work (providing power to the electric car) then recombine with the protons on the cathode side where the protons, electrons, and oxygen molecules combine to form water. See the Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle (FCEV) infographic(PDF) to learn more about the process.

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37 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

I am wondering what the latest developments are on the hydrogen car :dunno  Perhaps a H car would place less demand on lithium mining as the power isn't coming from just the battery.  The battery is used more for storage of energy and not as much for powering the vehicle - if I understand correctly. 

 

https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/how-do-fuel-cell-electric-cars-work

 

 

Hydrogen car image

 

How Do Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles Work Using Hydrogen?

Like all-electric vehicles, fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) use electricity to power an electric motor. In contrast to other electric vehicles, FCEVs produce electricity using a fuel cell powered by hydrogen, rather than drawing electricity from only a battery. During the vehicle design process, the vehicle manufacturer defines the power of the vehicle by the size of the electric motor(s) that receives electric power from the appropriately sized fuel cell and battery combination. Although automakers could design an FCEV with plug-in capabilities to charge the battery, most FCEVs today use the battery for recapturing braking energy, providing extra power during short acceleration events, and to smooth out the power delivered from the fuel cell with the option to idle or turn off the fuel cell during low power needs. The amount of energy stored onboard is determined by the size of the hydrogen fuel tank. This is different from an all-electric vehicle, where the amount of power and energy available are both closely related to the battery's size.

 

 

https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/fuel_cell.html

How Fuel Cells Work

 

The most common type of fuel cell for vehicle applications is the polymer electrolyte membrane (PEM) fuel cell. In a PEM fuel cell, an electrolyte membrane is sandwiched between a positive electrode (cathode) and a negative electrode (anode). Hydrogen is introduced to the anode, and oxygen (from air) is introduced to the cathode. The hydrogen molecules break apart into protons and electrons due to an electrochemical reaction in the fuel cell catalyst. Protons then travel through the membrane to the cathode.

The electrons are forced to travel through an external circuit to perform work (providing power to the electric car) then recombine with the protons on the cathode side where the protons, electrons, and oxygen molecules combine to form water. See the Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle (FCEV) infographic(PDF) to learn more about the process.

I'm fine with that.

 

This is exciting.

 

https://e360.yale.edu/features/green-hydrogen-could-it-be-key-to-a-carbon-free-economy

 

But, everything has its problems.

 

Quote

 

While it has advantages, says Michael Liebreich, a Bloomberg New Energy Finance analyst in the United Kingdom and a green hydrogen skeptic, “it displays an equally impressive list of disadvantages.”

“It does not occur in nature so it requires energy to separate,” Liebreich wrote in a pair of recent essays for BloombergNEF. “Its storage requires compression to 700 times atmospheric pressure, refrigeration to 253 degrees Celsius… It carries one quarter the energy per unit volume of natural gas… It can embrittle metal; it escapes through the tiniest leaks and yes, it really is explosive.”

 

 

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29 minutes ago, funhusker said:

I think we just saved the world!!!!

Oh yeah - Nobel Prize for both of us.  "First I want to thank the Nobel Prize Committee for this prestigious and DESERVING (its 'not every day one can save the world) award.  I also want to thank HB for the forum to brainstorm with much BS  and the opportunity to form policy ideas with my fellow collaborators.  This environment allowed us to come up with this world saving plan...  My co-winner will take it from here"

Nobel-prize GIFs - Get the best GIF on GIPHY

 

Nobel Prize GIF by Cal - Find & Share on GIPHY

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