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The First Trump Impeachment Thread


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18 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

Talking to actual Republicans is frustrating at this point.

 

I have a coworker who is a very smart man when it comes to what we do. I've conferred with him on a lot of things to become a better practitioner.

 

He's also a hardcore Republican. I am not. Sometimes listening to the rants he goes on is kind of funny, sometimes it's just sad.

 

Yesterday he starts talking about Hunter Biden fathering that kid, "Sleepy Creepy Uncle Joe," etc etc. I turned to him and said, "Yeah, I know, but when you throw the old 'Grab 'em by the P' out there, none of it really matters anymore, does it?"

 

His response was to get slightly flustered and ultimately say "Well, you know one conversation you have with someone when you think you're alone... you know how it is with Trump and these other super wealthy men, women wanting their 15 minutes in the spotlight, they absolutely do throw themselves at you. Besides, I think, you know, anything with children is way, way worse." And some associated ranting about pedophilia.

 

So, in sum, he used Biden being ultra, inappropriately weird when it comes to personal boundaries to defend Trump literally describing sexual assault and somehow make it the woman's fault.

 

So I'm pissed too. I don't know how to bridge the gap to someone like that and find common cause. He's a decent, smart man in other areas of life. But political beliefs that are toxic as hell. Republicanism seems a lot like a cult right now.

I know and am related to those people as well. I just go to lengths to avoid politics discussions with them. I value my relationships with them way more than what any of those a$$holes in Washington and on the networks spew out. I admit, though it is hard to not engage sometimes. 

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10 minutes ago, Frostberg said:

 

 

 

You didn't answer my question about what you consider a first hand account, but you don't have to.

 

It seems to me you admit that Trump asked Zelensky for an investigation into the Bidens while aid was being withheld and a WH meeting was still in play. It doesn't matter if it Trump specifically told Zelensky on that phone call you must do this or we won't do that. I'm sorry but that does not prove innocence in the least, in fact it does the opposite. If the Bidens are corrupt and need to be investigated, Trump should do that. But it is completely and unequivically wrong for him to do so by asking a foreign President to do so, especially when that President is awaiting things of value. That is not up for debate. An investigation into the Bidens should go though the US DOJ and the US intelligence community. We have a treaty with Ukraine, they will cooperate. So you can choose what side of history you wan to be on. Because you admit, Trump asked Zelensky for these investigations, the testimony proves that was not our National Security objective in Ukraine but a domestic political issue and that is plain wrong whether or not the aid was held up for that reason, which Mulvany admitted it was. I feel like we are in crazy town. You agree he did it but your take is thats alright. I hope you do some hard thinking about this because there is the right side and the wrong side, really no in between. 

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25 minutes ago, Frostberg said:

I'm not sure if there was an actual crime or not. An investigation would determine that. I think all corruption should be investigated and if the corruption extends to other countries then we may need their help looking into it. So if Trudeau wanted our help to investigate a Canadian and it may have happened in the USA then I would support us helping them.

 

That's not the way legitimate investigations work. The kind of agencies that conduct investigations, do so for for specific reasons, within the scopes of whatever their agency's authority is. You would be looking into some sort of actual allegation. I do workplace investigations, but in order to move forward on a case, I have to have allegations of a potential specific policy violation. I don't just do rogue snooping. I can't.

 

So if the Bidens are to be investigated, fine. But what is the allegation? And who has the legitimate authority to investigate whatever the alleged crime is? With those questions in mind, under what circumstance would it be appropriate for the POTUS to request the Ukrainian government to conduct an investigation into the Bidens? 

 

There was nothing about Trump's request that seemed legitimate, and if there was, we would have heard the answers to the above questions. Then add to the fact that there was an obvious carrot of all this foreign aid that was dangling on a stick when the request was made.

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43 minutes ago, Frostberg said:

What do you consider a first hand account? Of the very few people who were actually on the call, no one said that Trump directly said that the investigations were contingent on aid or whatever.

 

The WH Chief of Staff went on TV and admitted it. That Press Briefing by Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney is still posted on the WH website!

 

If you listed to the hearings, others testified to the contingency as well; the July 25 call was not the only time this was leveraged. 

 

43 minutes ago, Frostberg said:

Also, how did the hearings lead you to the bolded conclusion? Hunter getting paid a ton of money from a shady company and Joe stating publicly that he pressured them to fire the prosecutor.

 

If you listened to the hearings, you would have heard every deponent asked answer that there was no evidence of corruption with Biden and those allegations were not credible. This was literally THE experts on Ukraine, corruption, etc.

 

If you listened to the hearings, you would have heard that that Shokin was corrupt. Everyone was calling for his resignation because of this. The EU was working on it for years before America and Biden helped. Shokin wasn't pursuing corruption among the country's politicians. During his 13 months in office, not one major figure was convicted. No oligarch. No politician. No ranking bureaucrat. 

 

43 minutes ago, Frostberg said:

Additionally, I'm curious as to what additional information you would need to conclude that Trump asked for an investigation? Or are you of the belief that it's not a big deal one way or another? Trump asking for an investigation doesn't bother me...

 

If you listened to the hearings, you would have heard that Trump didn't want an investigation, he wanted an announcement!

 

"[President Zelensky] had to announce the investigations. He didn’t actually have to do them." Ambassador Sondland.

 

1 hour ago, Frostberg said:

Also, the Bidens should be investigated.

 

43 minutes ago, Frostberg said:

 I think the Bidens should be investigated 

 

43 minutes ago, Frostberg said:

Trump asking for an investigation doesn't bother me and if the Bidens are corrupt we shouldn't be allowing Joe to run for president.

 

43 minutes ago, Frostberg said:

 I'm not sure if there was an actual crime or not. An investigation would determine that.

 

Like @BlitzFirst and @Ulty have explained, there is a proper way to investigate if there is credible reason to do so.

 

If you listened to the hearings, you would have heard every deponent asked answer that there was no evidence of corruption with Biden and those allegations were not credible. The WH was already briefed on this debunked theory. That is exactly why Trump was using irregular and improper channels, his personal attorney instead of the proper foreign policy channels.

 

Again, if you had listened to the hearings, you would have heard Dr. Fiona Hill put it so eloquently:

 

"[H]e was being involved in a domestic political errand and we were being involved in national security foreign policy, and those two things had just diverged."

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32 minutes ago, Frostberg said:

Trump asking for an investigation doesn't bother 

I could almost agree except Trump and the Republicans didn't care about this in 2016, 2017, or 2018. So what gives? Biden was a front running candidate opposing Donald Trump in 2019. That's it!

 

Aid/taxpayer money was clearly frozen by the White House after it was approved by congress, after it was determined that Ukraine was taking significant steps reduce corruption. It was only released after the whistleblower came forward. Trump clearly asked Ukraine for a favor to investigate his political rival. At a minimum, that is extremely unethical all around. I don't understand how anyone can't see that.

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1 hour ago, Frostberg said:

 

Just to be clear, I am not a Trump "supporter". No matter the president (Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump) I've wanted to see them succeed and for America to prosper. I'm also not looking to debate anyone, just wanted to throw my 2 cents in for what its worth.

Bump this.

 

I did my best to reply to questions asked but I really don't want to spend all day going back and forth nor do I have much more to contribute. I fully admit that I'm a lower political and legal IQ person. I thought the hearings would have a smoking gun but I didn't see it. That is all, enjoy your weekend and GBR.

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5 minutes ago, Frostberg said:

Bump this.

 

I did my best to reply to questions asked but I really don't want to spend all day going back and forth nor do I have much more to contribute. I fully admit that I'm a lower political and legal IQ person. I thought the hearings would have a smoking gun but I didn't see it. That is all, enjoy your weekend and GBR.

Why is a smoking gun needed when you admit he did what he is being accused of? When he admits he did what he is accused of?

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2 hours ago, QMany said:

 

I don't know the exact mechanics of it yet. I was young during Clinton's proceedings and need to read up.

 

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present.

 

But I suspect the Chief Justice presiding makes the calls on witnesses, including relevancy. 

 

Let's hope you're right. Because while I disagree with most of Justice Roberts' viewpoints, I at least feel like he's smart enough to filter out the bogus witnesses.

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2 hours ago, Frostberg said:

Hunter getting paid a ton of money from a shady company...

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/11/andrew-giuliani-works-white-house-politics-daily/602236/

 

For those that don't know about Hunter Biden aside from Trump/Giuliani mudslinging:

  • Georgetown University (BA)
  • Yale University (JD)
  • By 1998, he was executive vice president of a bank holding co.
  • 1998-2001, he served in the United States Department of Commerce, focusing on ecommerce policy.
  • 2001, he became a lobbyist co-founding the firm of Oldaker, Biden & Belair
  • 2006, he was appointed to Amtrak's Board of Directors by then-President George W. Bush. Hunter Biden had to testify regarding his nomination before the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation which included John McCain.
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Aid was inexplicably held...

People around Trump pushed for investigations into Trump's political opponent...

The actual State Dept had no idea what was going on....

Several career employees were concerned after hearing the actual call...

Once concerns were made public, the aid was inexplicably released...

The POTUS Chief of Staff tells the press that "Yes, personal politics was involved.  Get over it!"...

No people who were involved in the inner circle want to or will be allowed to testify...

People confirmed this under oath, including a person with first hand knowledge of the "inner circle"...

 

 

Image result for smoking gun

 

 

 

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