knapplc Posted November 26, 2019 Author Share Posted November 26, 2019 5 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said: Though, I do find it naive to think that they're pursuing impeachment *because* what he did was illegal. They're doing it, because it's a political play. There's ample evidence of a crime. Heck, Trump stood on the White House lawn and said so. If you're against impeachment in this case, you have to be against it in every case, even anything to do with the "smoke" in Saudi Arabia. Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, FrankWheeler said: I laughed. Thanks for that. Just now, knapplc said: There's ample evidence of a crime. Heck, Trump stood on the White House lawn and said so. If you're against impeachment in this case, you have to be against it in every case, even anything to do with the "smoke" in Saudi Arabia. Why? Link to comment
knapplc Posted November 26, 2019 Author Share Posted November 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said: Why? Because there's ample evidence of a crime in this case. We have multiple witnesses putting together a credible case of abuse of power. If you don't conduct an impeachment with that evidence, you never do. 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 27 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said: You are fighting the strawman of "A small government will be absent of corruption." That's not what I said. ALL governments in human history are corrupt, without exception. The question is: "At what scale would you like corruption to occur?" Here's the fallacy of your statement here. You proclaim that all government is corrupt. You're coming across as making this statement as though holding people like Trump accountable then really is neither possible nor do you really care about it. You have been thrown evidence after evidence showing the corruption of Trump and why he should be impeached, and all I see back is...naaaa...haven't seen enough and all government is corrupt so that's why it should be small. The issue with this is...yes...all government (and private sector) can be corrupt. But, if we somehow normalize that in our society, then we have lost. Americans have to keep fighting back against the corruption. And....sadly.....what has happened is the people who support Trump have accepted his corruption and, in a weird sort of way, celebrate it since they have convinced themselves that he is sent to them by God. You don't see a problem with this situation? And....your only defense is...."BUT OBAMA!!!!"???? 5 Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said: Here's the fallacy of your statement here. You proclaim that all government is corrupt. You're coming across as making this statement as though holding people like Trump accountable then really is neither possible nor do you really care about it. You have been thrown evidence after evidence showing the corruption of Trump and why he should be impeached, and all I see back is...naaaa...haven't seen enough and all government is corrupt so that's why it should be small. The issue with this is...yes...all government (and private sector) can be corrupt. But, if we somehow normalize that in our society, then we have lost. Americans have to keep fighting back against the corruption. And....sadly.....what has happened is the people who support Trump have accepted his corruption and, in a weird sort of way, celebrate it since they have convinced themselves that he is sent to them by God. You don't see a problem with this situation? And....your only defense is...."BUT OBAMA!!!!"???? I'm not going to take the time to methodically go through every point in your response other than to say that your interpretation of what I'm saying is incorrect. And yeah, that makes me cringe also when people say Trump was sent by God... Link to comment
NM11046 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 2 hours ago, ActualCornHusker said: The question is more the degree to which he offended, and if there is evidence to back it up I'm genuinely interested in how you view the overall tension in the country. On a scale of "Post-WW2" to "The Civil War", how do you view the tension that exists in the political landscape currently, and how big of a "threat" do you view Trump as to the Republic? Now THIS is a great question - and worthy of its' own thread I think. In the car but if you don't start it @ActualCornHusker I will when I get home. 1 Link to comment
ZRod Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 25 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said: I'm not going to take the time to methodically go through every point in your response other than to say that your interpretation of what I'm saying is incorrect. And yeah, that makes me cringe also when people say Trump was sent by God... It's pretty much how 90% of us are interpreting your statements. Maybe the delivery is off. 1 Link to comment
commando Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 9 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: Oh boy.... get under the bus Rudy 1 Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 Work prevented me from joining in on the lively discussion in here today, but allow me to get on my soapbox here for a moment. The phrase "fair and balanced" vis-à-vis politics has really begun to irk me. Not just because Fox News is problematic. Fox's actual reporting definitely skews right but is generally journalistically fine. Their TV division is completely toxic trash that poisons our political discourse and is brainwashing millions of our fellow citizens, many of our parents, etc. I mean the concept of fair & balanced as it relates to politics. Many people clearly think it means listening equally to two diametrically opposed sides, taking each roughly equally seriously and lending the same credence to each one. What a load of crap. For example, take a cancer patient deciding on treatment. Medical doctors tell them that chemotherapy, radiation therapy or surgery may successfully treat their cancer. On the other hand, naturopaths may tell you an elixir of oils or herbs can do the same thing. Should we treat both equally? If you are unsure, ask Steve Jobs. Except... you can't. Because he's dead. Similarly, we shouldn't always treat what Democrats and Republicans claim with equal scrutiny. There should be no investigation opened into Joe Biden or his son. The Burisma diversion is just that. The timelines don't fit, the facts don't add up and it's been systematically slapped down by impartial professionals whose jobs are knowing this stuff. They've said emphatically there is no there there. There's a sense of "Dems investigated Trump, so we should be evenhanded and investigate Biden, too." Bullcrap. That would be rewarding Republicans for peddling flimsy, bad-faith conspiracies designed to LIE to Americans. I'm not going to lie and say "yeah, investigate Biden" just to project impartiality. Investigating and punishing whomever in politics is GOOD, if the FACTS warrant it. Not just out of some phony sense of balance just because. 2 2 Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 7 hours ago, ActualCornHusker said: The only true safeguard against corruption in our own government is to DRASTICALLY reduce the size, scope, authority, and responsibilities of the federal government. I too find this post odd. Particularly given you posting this earlier: Given this, you appear to believe our politics is choking under the stranglehold of massive corporations and the incredibly wealthy who can both afford to buy politicians and policy. We agree on this. I just disagree with your solution. The solution isn't to tear down the government as much as possible to scale back their influence. It's to unf#ck the government and break their chokehold so the government can get back to working for regular people again. If the wealthy already have too much control, and we dismantle the government in response, who fills the void of power that's created? I'm guessing the same people who run things now. 4 Link to comment
Huskerzoo Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 53 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: Oh boy.... Time to see if Rudy was really joking about that insurance or that was like when you joke about having a crush on your highschool best friend. Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 8 hours ago, B.B. Hemingway said: If I was on the left (or on the right and against Trump, in my case) my biggest concern would be that this political stunt is just going to strengthen the resolve of Trump supporters. He's not going to be impeached. Everyone knows, and has known that. Hard disagree. I'm not concerned at all. I used to be more skeptical, too, whether it was worth it. With the whole magnitude of Trump's misconduct now it's clear it's the right decision now. Actual Trump supporters are a cult now but more importantly a decided minority. They're a bunch of morons and grifters. Screw 'em. We shouldn't predicate much of anything based on what think or do. What does matter is what soft Trump voters think - people who probably don't like Trump but decided to give him a chance in 2016. I doubt these folks are going to hop back onboard the Trump Train because of impeachment. Besides, there is no empirical evidence any of this is actually helping Trump. The opposite is true, actually. 7 hours ago, B.B. Hemingway said: At the same time, we can sit here and pretend the people trying to impeach him are choir children (or the presidents before). No one in here voiced this opinion anywhere ITT. I think you're conflating people full-throatedly supporting impeachment with them thinking Democrats are righteous and faultless. No one here believes that. We just think they're right in this one specific context. 3 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted November 27, 2019 Author Share Posted November 27, 2019 42 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said: Hard disagree. I'm not concerned at all. I used to be more skeptical, too, whether it was worth it. With the whole magnitude of Trump's misconduct now it's clear it's the right decision now. Actual Trump supporters are a cult now but more importantly a decided minority. They're a bunch of morons and grifters. Screw 'em. We shouldn't predicate much of anything based on what think or do. What does matter is what soft Trump voters think - people who probably don't like Trump but decided to give him a chance in 2016. I doubt these folks are going to hop back onboard the Trump Train because of impeachment. Besides, there is no empirical evidence any of this is actually helping Trump. The opposite is true, actually. No one in here voiced this opinion anywhere ITT. I think you're conflating people full-throatedly supporting impeachment with them thinking Democrats are righteous and faultless. No one here believes that. We just think they're right in this one specific context. Drop the mic, my fren. Link to comment
Landlord Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 9 hours ago, knapplc said: Do you want to have an intellectually honest conversation or not? 9 hours ago, knapplc said: What do you think is going on there? 9 hours ago, knapplc said: What do you think is going on with Ukraine? 9 hours ago, knapplc said: What do you think is going on with Ukraine? 9 hours ago, knapplc said: But now you're just talking in circles. Understandable. But unhelpful. 9 hours ago, knapplc said: More insults. Great! 9 hours ago, knapplc said: Heh. I just want to point out how awesome of an intellectually honest conversation this is. Link to comment
Recommended Posts