commando Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 we have gone from "no collusion' to "i will collude again" 5 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Here's the deal on this with me. I honestly don't have that much of a problem with a foreign country's intelligence community coming to a candidate with information on an opponent......as long as the information wasn't gathered by breaking US laws. The fact that Russia contacted Trump's campaign with information isn't the bad thing. The bad thing is that when Trump's campaign found out what it was and that it was gathered by illegally hacking into Hillary's computers....THEN....Trump supported them leaking the documents and did everything he could to prevent an investigation into it. THAT is what I have a huge problem with. Russia did something illegal in the US. Trump supports them doing that illegal act because it benefited him personally. 3 Link to comment
ZRod Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said: Here's the deal on this with me. I honestly don't have that much of a problem with a foreign country's intelligence community coming to a candidate with information on an opponent......as long as the information wasn't gathered by breaking US laws. The fact that Russia contacted Trump's campaign with information isn't the bad thing. The bad thing is that when Trump's campaign found out what it was and that it was gathered by illegally hacking into Hillary's computers....THEN....Trump supported them leaking the documents and did everything he could to prevent an investigation into it. THAT is what I have a huge problem with. Russia did something illegal in the US. Trump supports them doing that illegal act because it benefited him personally. Part of me agrees with you, and part of me says who cares where we get dirt from. Then another part of me says what if the information was damaging, but false. With all these manipulated videos a foreign adversary could easily destabilize another nation by using all these new softwares to manipulate voices and faces... This s#!t is scary real now. 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, ZRod said: Part of me agrees with you, and part of me says who cares where we get dirt from. The. Another part of me says what if the information was damaging, but false. With all these manipulated videos a foreign adversary could easily destabilize another nation by using all these new softwares to manipulate voices and faces... This s#!t is scary real now. That's my point. WHERE the information comes from isn't nearly as big of a deal as HOW they got the information and then the President covering for the people who gathered it illegally. Link to comment
ZRod Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 20 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: That's my point. WHERE the information comes from isn't nearly as big of a deal as HOW they got the information and then the President covering for the people who gathered it illegally. Ethics are basically non-existent anymore. The leaders of this country have no clue what they are, and no one cares to hold them accountable as long as they are on the same team. 2 Link to comment
Moiraine Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 "I hope he looks at the UK and I hope he looks at Australia and I hope he looks at Ukraine." Trump is okay with Russians trying to infiltrate his campaign but God forbid our allies give us information on said infiltration. 1 Link to comment
Whistlebritches Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 3 hours ago, BigRedBuster said: Here's the deal on this with me. I honestly don't have that much of a problem with a foreign country's intelligence community coming to a candidate with information on an opponent......as long as the information wasn't gathered by breaking US laws. The fact that Russia contacted Trump's campaign with information isn't the bad thing. The bad thing is that when Trump's campaign found out what it was and that it was gathered by illegally hacking into Hillary's computers....THEN....Trump supported them leaking the documents and did everything he could to prevent an investigation into it. THAT is what I have a huge problem with. Russia did something illegal in the US. Trump supports them doing that illegal act because it benefited him personally. But what if next time it's the Saudi's providing info to the Trump campaign specifically so they can get their hands on more nuclear tech? Or the Iranians offering whatever they could find from Trump's kids phished personal email account to the Dem candidate so the US doesn't bomb the s#!t out of them. I'm not so naive as to believe it doesn't already happen to some extent but I'm really bothered by the idea of it happening so freely. 3 Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, Whistlebritches said: But what if next time it's the Saudi's providing info to the Trump campaign specifically so they can get their hands on more nuclear tech? Or the Iranians offering whatever they could find from Trump's kids phished personal email account to the Dem candidate so the US doesn't bomb the s#!t out of them. I'm not so naive as to believe it doesn't already happen to some extent but I'm really bothered by the idea of it happening so freely. This is where issues arise. On the surface, where information comes from doesn't matter because all that really matters is the information. But the fact of the matter is the foreign entities providing this information have motives of their own, and those motives may not be in the best interest of the United States. Link to comment
NM11046 Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 It's a slippery slope if you're ok with foreign governments giving information to campaigns for some reasons and not others. Never mind, it's not. If there's something that your own staff is unable to find out during "oppo research" then I'd bet a ton of money that it's not to be had in normal, fact checking (ie LEGAL) ways. If a foreign government has to be the one to hand over it's been obtained in a way that is not legal in the US. There is no gray area. The day we allow foreign countries with interests in impacting our elections do so the people of this country lose all power. Think your vote means nothing now because you're a dem in a red state or vice versa? Think about how much less it will matter when Norway is helping your local congressperson win much less the president. Because not only are they turning over the bad stuff on candidate x (which may or may not be true) but they're also hiding the bad stuff on candidate y, their candidate so they can be elected. There are very, very few countries out there that would do this in an effort to do right be the US. Give me UK, maybe AUS - but still, as soon as there is a leadership or regime change who says we can trust them? Once you allow this you can't take it back. 2 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 @Whistlebritches @NM11046 @Nebfanatic All very valid points. What if British intelligence (our biggest ally) comes up with proof Trump sold his soul to Russia and the information wasn't gathered even from an American but through spying on Russia? Would you be OK with that being given to Jo Biden? Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 29 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: @Whistlebritches @NM11046 @Nebfanatic All very valid points. What if British intelligence (our biggest ally) comes up with proof Trump sold his soul to Russia and the information wasn't gathered even from an American but through spying on Russia? Would you be OK with that being given to Jo Biden? I would prefer that information went to our intelligence agencies. 1 1 Link to comment
RedDenver Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said: I would prefer that information went to our intelligence agencies. I would prefer it went to Congress. Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 30 minutes ago, RedDenver said: I would prefer it went to Congress. Why not both? The IC is less political than Congress. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 28 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said: Why not both? The IC is less political than Congress. Wha???? Haven't you heard about the deep state? 1 1 Link to comment
RedDenver Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 34 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said: Why not both? The IC is less political than Congress. I'm fine with both. But the IC has a history of keeping secrets from the American people. Link to comment
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