Danny Bateman Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, ActualCornHusker said: Nice try, but I did not say I'm against impeaching Trump. Not everything in here is an attempt at a gotcha. Based on what you've posted here, your actual beliefs about all this are genuinely perplexing. You haven't posted much, but from what I can gather, you think impeachment is a bad idea because it will fire up Trump's base more than his opposition. From what polling I've seen (and election results recently), that doesn't appear to be so clear cut to me. You don't like any of the Dems running for president that have a shot to win. Fine. You also seem to think corruptions and bad acting under bade presidents far outshadows what Trump is guilty of. Flat out disagree in the strongest possible terms there. All presidents and pols in general are likely guilty of garden variety corruption, IMO. Trump is... something different. Something far worse, because he seems determined to push things as far as he can to see what he can get away with. Even if this last point is true, does that mean we shouldn't deal with the clear and present corruption that is the focus of these impeachment proceedings? That we should just let it go and focus on beating Trump next year? No. No it does not. 4 Link to comment
knapplc Posted November 17, 2019 Author Share Posted November 17, 2019 No president in recent history has been caught using taxpayer money to bribe a foreign government to generate dirt on his political opponent. If we had that evidence I'd be for impeaching that president and removing them from office. Period. That's all the integrity it takes to understand this situation, and why it's imperative that we convict Trump for doing what he has actually admitted to doing. If we don't, we're a HUGE step closer to autocracy. Which should terrify you when you're on a public board with traceable data voicing political opinions against a particular politician/party. Because in an autocracy, that's going to ruin your life. 4 Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 2 hours ago, knapplc said: No president in recent history has been caught using taxpayer money to bribe a foreign government to generate dirt on his political opponent. If we had that evidence I'd be for impeaching that president and removing them from office. Period. That's all the integrity it takes to understand this situation, and why it's imperative that we convict Trump for doing what he has actually admitted to doing. If we don't, we're a HUGE step closer to autocracy. Which should terrify you when you're on a public board with traceable data voicing political opinions against a particular politician/party. Because in an autocracy, that's going to ruin your life. There's also a list of politicians who used taxpayer money to settle sexual assault lawsuits (both R and D). It's one of the more egregious things that I can think of, and every last one of those people should be exposed, prosecuted, and forced to pay that money back to the treasury plus interest. This is all I'm saying: unless all the other pond scum - elected and non-elected - who have abused the power of the government for their own benefit are prosecuted, I don't see removing Trump from office over this Ukraine situation as being something that will work out well for anyone... Even if all the claims that are being made against Trump are true in regards to Ukraine, most reasonable people look at the Biden situation and know there's something really fishy with that situation, so a lot of people view Trump asking Ukraine to look into it as not a big deal. Beyond that, there's a lot more nuance to the discussion that doesn't get brought up - the fact that the president has the right to hold foreign aid at his discretion, the fact that Trump didn't even get what he was asking for yet and the aid was released, etc Again, I'm not saying he shouldn't get impeached. I'm definitely not saying that he should get away with corruption because every president before him did. But I'm also not saying that he should be impeached either. 1 Link to comment
Landlord Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said: There's also a list of politicians who used taxpayer money to settle sexual assault lawsuits (both R and D). It's one of the more egregious things that I can think of, and every last one of those people should be exposed, prosecuted, and forced to pay that money back to the treasury plus interest. Agreed. 13 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said: This is all I'm saying: unless all the other pond scum - elected and non-elected - who have abused the power of the government for their own benefit are prosecuted, I don't see removing Trump from office over this Ukraine situation as being something that will work out well for anyone... You're saying this as a very absolute black and white sort of premise. It's not. Every single person technically 'abuses the power' of whatever job or place in the world they are in for their own gain. It's a matter of degrees that determine severity. A government official writing off a $20 Applebees meal as a business expense that they shouldn't have isn't the same thing as treason, and there are a lot of degrees of wrongdoing in between them. 13 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said: most reasonable people look at the Biden situation and know there's something really fishy with that situation Source on 'most' 'reasonable' people thinking that? I haven't gotten that sense. It seems like a giant nothingburger, as many of Trump's frequent and exaggerated claims and beliefs are. Are these the same reasonable people who believed there was something fishy about Obama's birth certificate? 13 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said: the fact that the president has the right to hold foreign aid at his discretion If the basis of that discretion is based off of his own personal political success in competition with other challengers, no, he does not have that right. That's the actual nuance, also known as context. You're the one making non-nuanced observations, imo. 3 Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 34 minutes ago, Landlord said: Biden: Source on 'most' 'reasonable' people thinking that? I haven't gotten that sense. It seems like a giant nothingburger, as many of Trump's frequent and exaggerated claims and beliefs are. https://www.wsj.com/articles/firm-hired-by-ukraines-burisma-tried-to-use-hunter-biden-as-leverage-documents-show-11573009615 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/diplomat-tells-investigators-he-raised-alarms-in-2015-about-hunter-bidens-ukraine-work-but-was-rebuffed/2019/10/18/81e35be9-4f5a-4048-8520-0baabb18ab63_story.html I'm sure there's nothing there at all... 1 Link to comment
funhusker Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 ^^^am I reading the article correctly??? The concern was over “optics”, not something nefarious. edit: I’m referring to the WP article. I couldn’t read the WSJ. 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Landlord said: f the basis of that discretion is based off of his own personal political success in competition with other challengers, no, he does not have that right. This is something that some people just seem to brush under the rug. Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 1 hour ago, ActualCornHusker said: https://www.wsj.com/articles/firm-hired-by-ukraines-burisma-tried-to-use-hunter-biden-as-leverage-documents-show-11573009615 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/diplomat-tells-investigators-he-raised-alarms-in-2015-about-hunter-bidens-ukraine-work-but-was-rebuffed/2019/10/18/81e35be9-4f5a-4048-8520-0baabb18ab63_story.html I'm sure there's nothing there at all... Sounds like others who have come around. What crime did Biden commit? Why wouldn't Trump have our own agencies open an investigation and have them work with Ukraine? Ukraine was cooperating with Mueller until Trump threatened not to release aid unless they stopped, so why wouldn't they cooperate with us on a Biden investigation? Link to comment
knapplc Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 3 hours ago, ActualCornHusker said: This is all I'm saying: unless all the other pond scum - elected and non-elected - who have abused the power of the government for their own benefit are prosecuted, I don't see removing Trump from office over this Ukraine situation as being something that will work out well for anyone... "If we don't prosecute all the bank robbers we may as well not prosecute THIS bank robber that we have evidence on." Jesus. Think about what you're saying. Stop being in the bag for this political party you're rooting for and start believing in this country. For F's sake. 3 2 Link to comment
Notre Dame Joe Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 7 hours ago, knapplc said: "If we don't prosecute all the bank robbers we may as well not prosecute THIS bank robber that we have evidence on." Jesus. Think about what you're saying. Stop being in the bag for this political party you're rooting for and start believing in this country. For F's sake. Just link me to where you demanded prosecution of Obama for asking the Russians for help with his election, ya know so I know you're not in the bag. 2 Link to comment
ZRod Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Notre Dame Joe said: Just link me to where you demanded prosecution of Obama for asking the Russians for help with his election, ya know so I know you're not in the bag. Why don't you provide evidence for this insane accusation first? 8 Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said: Just link me to where you demanded prosecution of Obama for asking the Russians for help with his election, ya know so I know you're not in the bag. Was Obama holding up aid as leverage at the time? Link to comment
TGHusker Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Trump to testify?? Wouldn't that be interesting. https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trump-says-he-will-strongly-consider-testifying-in-impeachment-probe-i-like-the-idea/ Quote President Donald Trump took to Twitter on Monday to lash out at House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. But the president also signaled he is open to her demand he testify in the impeachment inquiry. “Our Crazy, Do Nothing (where’s USMCA, infrastructure, lower drug pricing & much more?) Speaker of the House, Nervous Nancy Pelosi, who is petrified by her Radical Left knowing she will soon be gone (they & Fake News Media are her BOSS), suggested on Sunday’s DEFACE THE NATION … ….that I testify about the phony Impeachment Witch Hunt,” Trump wrote on Twitter Monday morning. “She also said I could do it in writing. Even though I did nothing wrong, and don’t like giving credibility to this No Due Process Hoax, I like the idea & will, in order to get Congress focused again, strongly consider it!” he said. Link to comment
QMany Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 He said he was going to release his taxes... He said he was going to sit down with Mueller... He's not going to testify, and repeating his lie doesn't help anything. 1 1 Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 19 minutes ago, TGHusker said: Trump to testify?? Wouldn't that be interesting. https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trump-says-he-will-strongly-consider-testifying-in-impeachment-probe-i-like-the-idea/ Don't worry soon he will say 'well I really wanted to, If it were up to me I would but my lawyers advised me not to' 2 Link to comment
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