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The First Trump Impeachment Thread


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5 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

And ATT would contest it for any target, even regular criminal investigations, but apparently all too willing to get a shot at Trump.  

 

oh?  So you're fine if Barr subpoena's all of Biden family phone records?  I'm sure they would just hand them over.  Oh and since you trust any pretense of law enforcement you have to accept that Trump is just doing his job.

 

Baloney. ATT, unlike President Trump, will comply with a lawful subpoena from Congress because they respect them as a legitimate branch of government with legitimate investigative duties. Trump obviously does not.

 

And no, your second paragraph is not how this works. I presume it's meant to be snarky, but what you're saying here is we should treat Trump as equal to Biden and Barr as equal to Schiff. You're asking that we not use our eyes or our ears or our brains and just accept the lot of them as being equally culpable or having equally ethical motivations. You're asking us again to pretend the facts are equal on both sides of this equation.

 

That is not the case. These situations are not equivalent. You'd understand that if you'd stick to hard facts instead of consuming sh#tty Republican propaganda that allows you to stick to your nonsense counter-narrative.

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Just now, Danny Bateman said:

 

Baloney. ATT, unlike President Trump, will comply with a lawful subpoena from Congress because they respect them as a legitimate branch of government with legitimate investigative duties. Trump obviously does not.

 

And no, your second paragraph is not how this works. I presume it's meant to be snarky, but what you're saying here is we should treat Trump as equal to Biden and Barr as equal to Schiff. You're asking that we not use our eyes or our ears or our brains and just accept the lot of them as being equally culpable or having equally ethical motivations. You're asking us again to pretend the facts are equal on both sides of this equation.

 

That is not the case. These situations are not equivalent. You'd understand that if you'd stick to hard facts instead of consuming sh#tty Repubican propaganda that allows you to stick to your nonsense counter-narrative.

The thing is though even if we play his game he is wrong. Bidens phone records are easily accessible and ATT would not block a request for them because they are not protected. Same goes for Nunes and Guiliani.

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2 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

The thing is though even if we play his game he is wrong. Bidens phone records are easily accessible and ATT would not block a request for them because they are not protected. Same goes for Nunes and Guiliani.

 

Exactly. It's not at all surprising ATT would turn over the records because... that's the law.

 

Now, people wailing about how the phone records should be kept secret, on the other hand... that's an interesting look.

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That is the funny thing about the GOP arguments right now. They are made in bad faith and on built on falsehoods, but even if we play along with those arguments they still can be used against Trump in the end. There is absolutely nothing that can be said that will actually exonerate Trump. All that can be done is to drag others down into the mud which doesn't really do anything about Trumps position. 

 

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1 minute ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

Exactly. It's not at all surprising ATT would turn over the records because... that's the law.

 

Now, people wailing about how the phone records should be kept secret, on the other hand... that's an interesting look.

Yep and that is fair. The second half of that is certainly politics and can and should be disputed. Democrats should be playing by the rules to the letter just to stay above the fray. Any misstep the Republicans will turn into a mountain. 

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This article by a former FBI Special Agent, lawyer, and faculty member at Yale Law's Jackson Institute for Foreign Affairs is a really good explanation of Trump's "black propaganda" operation.

 

Quote

While both of these are important (and impeachable), it’s critical that we not overlook the bigger purpose behind the president’s actions: The White House was attempting to employ an illegal, covert propaganda operation against the American public.

 

This is explicitly against the law. The 1991 Intelligence Authorization Act prohibits the U.S. government from using covert actions — which include propaganda — to “influence United States political processes, public opinion, policies, or media.”

 

...

 

Black propaganda attempts to conceal the true source of information so that the target (in this case, the American public) cannot accurately assess the credibility of the message or the motives of the source behind it. By having the information emanate from a separate and more credible outlet, the target audience is more likely to believe it.

 

A unilateral statement from Zelensky would manipulate the American public into believing that Ukraine had independently reached the conclusion that there was a basis to investigate the Bidens and the origins of the 2016 U.S. election interference. By cloaking his own role and motives behind the statement of a foreign country, Trump could corroborate his own claims and have “proof” that his views were not politically motivated, but instead grounded in real facts.

 

In short, the Trump administration was using a propaganda technique to covertly plant credible seeds of doubt about a political opponent and the Russia investigation in anticipation of the 2020 election so he could capitalize on it.

 

 

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Castor now on the Hunter Biden train as if that has anything at all to do with this. I don't get this line of testimony. You just were talking about how Trump did nothing and didn't ask for anything, but now Castor seems to be leading to Trump was right to ask for investigations. So which is it, did Trump not ask for anything or is Trump right to ask for investigations? Pick a defense buddy, both don't work.

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18 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

Castor now on the Hunter Biden train as if that has anything at all to do with this. I don't get this line of testimony. You just were talking about how Trump did nothing and didn't ask for anything, but now Castor seems to be leading to Trump was right to ask for investigations. So which is it, did Trump not ask for anything or is Trump right to ask for investigations? Pick a defense buddy, both don't work.

 

It's just gaslighting. And you're going to see posts in this very thread from the right-wingers it works on, parroting the same inane details, and pretending they have merit. 

 

They do it because it works. It works because the people it works on want to believe in a fantasy where Republicans can do no wrong.

 

It's just, that fantasy necessarily destroys the America they think they believe in. It's all crazy.

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14 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

It's just gaslighting. And you're going to see posts in this very thread from the right-wingers it works on, parroting the same inane details, and pretending they have merit. 

 

They do it because it works. It works because the people it works on want to believe in a fantasy where Republicans can do no wrong.

 

It's just, that fantasy necessarily destroys the America they think they believe in. It's all crazy.

 

Republicans are good at this. At the whole dog & pony show. They've long been better at messaging than Democrats.

 

But just because their delivery is better doesn't mean they have facts on their side. They almost never do.

 

They're good at lying to people. A lot of their target audience are a bunch of dupes, but not all of them.

 

Even if it's good for their party, it's horrible for our democracy.

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