DOJ Initial Russia Hearings

[Landlord]

22 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

both.  Now which party calls for socialism, importing foreign voters, and generally prefers SCOTUS to decide political questions?

 

 

You're wrong Joe. It's only the Republican party that keeps gerrymandering the s#!t and trying to make voting more difficult and inaccessible. 

[Moiraine]

5 minutes ago, Landlord said:

You're wrong Joe. It's only the Republican party that keeps gerrymandering the s#!t and trying to make voting more difficult and inaccessible. 

 

 

He's *only* mostly wrong. Democrats have done it in the past and there are still maps today that were gerrymandered by Democrats. But the Democrats never did anything that comes even close to comparable to what the Republicans did before the 2012 election and what they're still doing now. That was a full scale, planned assault on democracy in this country and the supreme court judges don't know enough about math or statistics to realize it wouldn't be that hard to create maps in an unbiased way, or they're so partisan they don't want to fix it.

[BigRedBuster]

53 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

both.  Now which party calls for socialism, importing foreign voters, and generally prefers SCOTUS to decide political questions?

Then why are the republicans fighting against stopping gerrymandering???

[Danny Bateman]

1 hour ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

both.  Now which party calls for socialism, importing foreign voters, and generally prefers SCOTUS to decide political questions?

 

Lol "importing foreign voters"

 

The same far-right alternate reality crap, different day.

[Notre Dame Joe]

2 hours ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

He's *only* mostly wrong. Democrats have done it in the past and there are still maps today that were gerrymandered by Democrats. But the Democrats never did anything that comes even close to comparable to what the Republicans did before the 2012 election and what they're still doing now. That was a full scale, planned assault on democracy in this country and the supreme court judges don't know enough about math or statistics to realize it wouldn't be that hard to create maps in an unbiased way, or they're so partisan they don't want to fix it.

The original Governor Gerry was a Democrat.  Jumping to the legal issue, gerrymandering was the right of the states throughout the 20th century when the Ds held the House 90% of the time.  After the Rs gained power in the 90s legal scholars 'discovered' that it was a Constitutional menace.  So everyone does it and it is the moral equivalent of saying "out of touch with the common people"

[Moiraine]

1 hour ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

The original Governor Gerry was a Democrat.  Jumping to the legal issue, gerrymandering was the right of the states throughout the 20th century when the Ds held the House 90% of the time.  After the Rs gained power in the 90s legal scholars 'discovered' that it was a Constitutional menace.  So everyone does it and it is the moral equivalent of saying "out of touch with the common people"

 

 

The political party someone was a member of in the 1700-1800s means f#&% all and I think you know that. And gerrymandering is never a good thing. I don’t care if the Democrats didn’t have a problem with it in the 20th century. They were wrong if that’s the case and it should still be fixed. And no one has ever come close to abusing it the way the Republicans have in the past 9 years.

 

And, as far as the 20th century goes, population shift makes gerrymandering much easier to accomplish. Mathematically it’s much easier to gerrymander high population areas. People should adapt to change.

 

Our regulations on clean air in the late 1700s were perfectly fine. I guess we didn’t need to change them.

 

The fact of the matter is gerrymandering disenfranchises voters and if you’re fine with it you don’t support the voters or democracy.

[BigRedBuster]

Yaaaa!!!!!!

 

we made it to 100 pages. 

[Landlord]

5 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

The original Governor Gerry was a Democrat.  Jumping to the legal issue, gerrymandering was the right of the states throughout the 20th century when the Ds held the House 90% of the time.  After the Rs gained power in the 90s legal scholars 'discovered' that it was a Constitutional menace.  So everyone does it and it is the moral equivalent of saying "out of touch with the common people"

 

 

Let's talk about right now. I don't give a s#!t about your revisionist history with a weird interpretation. Let's talk about right now. We can all agree that properly represented districts are important and in support of good democracy. We can also all agree that every citizen should be encouraged to and should have the right to (with ease of access) be able to vote. 

 

Right now, the Republicans keep trying to make the districts unfair and stacked to their advantage, and they keep trying to block and make it more difficult for certain people to be able to vote. The Democrats are not doing any of that. The Republican party is spitting in the face of this democracy you pay lip service to.

[Notre Dame Joe]

I didn't say Gerrymandering was good, it's not.  You're just calling out Rs for things that Ds have been doing, again and again. 

[BigRedBuster]

41 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

I didn't say Gerrymandering was good, it's not.  You're just calling out Rs for things that Ds have been doing, again and again. 

And you’re deflecting while some in this country want to end what you claim you think is bad. However, you keep deflecting because what you say is bad, is helping your party. 

 

If you think it’s bad, why not help end it?  

[Moiraine]

1 hour ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

I didn't say Gerrymandering was good, it's not.  You're just calling out Rs for things that Ds have been doing, again and again. 

 

 

And you’re lying to yourself/others and acting like the 2 are equivalent. They’re not in the same ballpark. 

[commando]

1 hour ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

I didn't say Gerrymandering was good, it's not.  You're just calling out Rs for things that Ds have been doing, again and again. 

so you supported it when dems were doing it?  and will not complain if the dems get control and do it in the future?

[Danny Bateman]

This is a lot like the argument that Democrats were the original party of racism and opposition to the Civil Rights Act. Technically true, but historically ignorant by leaving out important context and almost always used in bad faith.
 

 

(Great thread BTW)

 

If you didn't know, the Dixiecrats - the segregationalist southern Dems - were the ones opposed to the CRA and attempted to block it. LBJ passed it with the help of Republicans and political realignment began. Dixecrats became Republicans and Republicans become modern Democrats.

 

Re: voting, Dems and purple/blue states are expanding voting access and kicking district drawing to independent third parties. Republicans are restricting voting and looking to gerrymander wherever possible.

 

Which fixes gerrymandering?

[Landlord]

6 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

I didn't say Gerrymandering was good, it's not.  You're just calling out Rs for things that Ds have been doing, again and again. 

 

 

Right now there's only one party doing it, and doing it worse and in a way that's far more threatening to democracy than has ever been done.

 

And you're sitting here whiningn about the dems.

[BigRedBuster]

20 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

Right now there's only one party doing it, and doing it worse and in a way that's far more threatening to democracy than has ever been done.

 

And you're sitting here whiningn about the dems.

Just to clarify one thing.  There are states in the country where Dems are gerrymandering to their benefit.  Yes, the Republicans are doing it WAY more and to a way more detriment to our Democracy.  But, I thought it necessary to point out that when the Dems are in power, they are not so moral that they don't do it too.

 

However, it is true that only one of these parties is actively fighting against changing the system to prevent gerrymandering from happening.  AND,......that's not the one with the donkeys.