DOJ Initial Russia Hearings

[Moiraine]

2 hours ago, ZRod said:

Trump wasn't groomed for s#!t. He's just been a useful idiot his whole life. He wasn't some Manchurian candidate, he just happened to be dumb enough and gullible enough to be easily persuaded or manipulated.

 

 

Manipulation is a part of grooming. But I think maybe you are saying they took advantage of his candidacy and presidency starting in 2015/2016. 

 

If that isn’t what you’re saying I’m not sure how they didn’t groom him. I find it highly plausible his anti NATO stuff could be due to that grooming.

[knapplc]

Trump was over a billion in debt and the Russians bailed him out.

► Trump was first compromised by the Russians in the 80s. In 1984, the Russian Mafia began to use Trump real estate to launder money. In 1987, the Soviet ambassador to the United Nations, Yuri Dubinin, arranged for Trump and his then-wife, Ivana, to enjoy an all-expense-paid trip to Moscow to consider possible business prospects. Only seven weeks after his trip, Trump ran full-page ads in the Boston Globe, the NYT and WaPO calling for, in effect, the dismantling of the postwar Western foreign policy alliance. The whole Trump/Russian connection started out as laundering money for the Russian mob through Trump's real estate, but evolved into something far bigger.

► In 1984, David Bogatin — a convicted Russian mobster and close ally of Semion Mogilevich, a major Russian mob boss — met with Trump in Trump Tower right after it opened. Bogatin bought five condos from Trump at that meeting. Those condos were later seized by the government, which claimed they were used to launder money for the Russian mob. (NY Times, Apr 30, 1992)

► Felix Sater

is a Russian-born former mobster, and former managing director of NY real estate conglomerate Bayrock Group LLC located on the 24th floor of Trump Tower. He is a convict who became a govt cooperator for the FBI and other agencies. He grew up with Michael Cohen--Trump's former "fixer" attorney. Cohen's family owned El Caribe, which was a mob hangout for the Russian Mafia in Brooklyn. Cohen had ties to Ukrainian oligarchs through his in-laws and his brother's in-laws. Felix Sater's father had ties to the Russian mob. This goes back more than 30 years.

► Trump was $4 billion in debt after his Atlantic City casinos went bankrupt. No U.S. bank would touch him. Then foreign money began flowing in through Bayrock (mentioned above). Bayrock was run by two investors: Tevfik Arif, a Kazakhstan-born former Soviet official who drew on bottomless sources of money from the former Soviet republic; and Felix Sater, a Russian-born businessman who had pleaded guilty in the 1990s to a huge stock-fraud scheme involving the Russian mafia. Bayrock partnered with Trump in 2005 and poured money into the Trump organization under the legal guise of licensing his name and property management.

► In July 2008, the height of the housing bust, Trump sold a mansion in Palm Beach for $95 million to Dmitry Rybolovlev, a Russian oligarch. Trump had purchased it four years earlier for $41.35 million. The sale price was nearly $54 million more than Trump had paid for the property. Again, this was the height of the recession when all other property had plummeted in value.

► Semion Mogilevich was the brains behind the Russian Mafia. Mogilevich operatives have been using Trump real estate for decades to launder money. That means Russian Mafia operatives have been part of his fortune for years. Many of them owned condos in Trump Towers and other properties. They were running operations out of Trump's crown jewel.

► So many Russians bought Trump apartments at his developments in Florida that the area became known as Little Moscow. The developers of two of his hotels were Russians with significant links to the Russian mob. The late leader of that mob in the United States, Vyacheslav Kirillovich Ivankov, was living at Trump Tower.

► According to a Bloomberg investigation (3/16/2017) into Trump World Tower, “a third of units sold on floors 76 through 83 by 2004 involved people or limited liability companies connected to Russia and neighboring states.”

► In 2013, Federal agents busted an “ultraexclusive, high-stakes, illegal poker ring” run by Russian gangsters out of Trump Tower. They operated card games, illegal gambling websites, and a global sports book and laundered more than $100 million. A condo directly below one owned by Trump reportedly served as HQ for a “sophisticated money-laundering scheme” connected to Semion Mogilevich.

► The Russia Mafia is part and parcel of Russian intelligence. Russia is a mafia state. That is not a metaphor. Putin is head of the Mafia. So the fact that they have been operating out of the home of the president of the United States is deeply disturbing.

► Rudy Giuliani famously prosecuted the Italian mob while he was a federal prosecutor, yet the Russian mob was allowed to thrive. Now he's deeply entwined in the business of Trump and Russian oligarchs. Giuiani appointed Semyon Kislin to the NYC Economic Development Council in 1990, and the FBI described Kislin as having ties to the Russian mob. Of course, it made good political sense for Giuliani to get headlines for smashing the Italian mob.

► A lot of Republicans in Washington are implicated. Boatloads of Russian money went to the GOP--often in legal ways. The NRA got as much as $70M from Russia, then funneled it to the GOP. The Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee lead by McConnell got millions from Leonard Blavatnik. In the 90s, the Russians began sending money to top GOP leaders, like Speaker of the House Tom Delay. Craig Unger's book alleges that most of the GOP leadership has been compromised by RU money.

► At the Cityscape USA’s Bridging US and the Emerging Real Estate Markets Conference held in Manhattan, on September 9, 10, and 11, 2008, Donald Trump Jr. was frank about the tide of Russian money supporting the family business, saying "...And in terms of high-end product influx into the US, Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets."

► Eric Trump told golf reporter James Dodson in 2014 that the Trump Organization was able to expand during the financial crisis because “We don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.”

► It's believed that Russian oligarchs co-signed Trump’s Deutsche bank loans.

Credit redditor erikannen

[Archy1221]

48 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Manipulation is a part of grooming. But I think maybe you are saying they took advantage of his candidacy and presidency starting in 2015/2016. 

 

If that isn’t what you’re saying I’m not sure how they didn’t groom him. I find it highly plausible his anti NATO stuff could be due to that grooming.

Doesn’t NATO have more money now than ever before?

[Moiraine]

44 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Doesn’t NATO have more money now than ever before?

 

I'm not sure how that is relevant.

[Archy1221]

Just now, Moiraine said:

 

I'm not sure how that is relevant.

You claim Trump is anti NATO.  It would be an interesting theory considering he got them more funding than ever before by making countries pay what they were supposed to be paying.  More funding for NATO would be a good thing. 
 

Courtesy of Business Insider 
 

“NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg in late November said that defense spending across European allies and Canada increased in real terms by 4.6% in 2019. "This is unprecedented progress and it is making NATO stronger," Stoltenberg said.”

 

 

[Moiraine]

15 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

You claim Trump is anti NATO.  It would be an interesting theory considering he got them more funding than ever before by making countries pay what they were supposed to be paying.  More funding for NATO would be a good thing. 
 

Courtesy of Business Insider 
 

“NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg in late November said that defense spending across European allies and Canada increased in real terms by 4.6% in 2019. "This is unprecedented progress and it is making NATO stronger," Stoltenberg said.”

 

 

 

 

It's really not relevant to the discussion. What's relevant is what Russia was attempting to do with Trump. That said, the quote above isn't talking about NATO funding. It's talking about countries in NATO spending more on defense. Dozens of aides and people part of NATO have said that Trump wanted to exit, and he referred to it as obsolete in an interview. It's something he didn't accomplish. We also reduced our funding of NATO under Trump. He also said he wouldn't help aide the Baltic states if Russia attacked them unless they made their fair contributions.

 

As far as defense spending goes:

 

 

[Archy1221]

3 hours ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

It's really not relevant to the discussion. What's relevant is what Russia was attempting to do with Trump. That said, the quote above isn't talking about NATO funding. It's talking about countries in NATO spending more on defense. Dozens of aides and people part of NATO have said that Trump wanted to exit, and he referred to it as obsolete in an interview. It's something he didn't accomplish. We also reduced our funding of NATO under Trump. He also said he wouldn't help aide the Baltic states if Russia attacked them unless they made their fair contributions.

 

As far as defense spending goes:

 

 

I guess you have never heard Trump negotiate anything in the last 30 some years.  It’s even in his book.  He threatens to take everything away as a negotiating tactic. Hence the, maybe US should leave NATO unless funding is more equitable soundbite.  
 

And that US funding line is waaaaaaayyyyy over there by the 3.5% mark. 
 

Funding and spending go hand in hand, so increased funding usually leads to increased spending.  Unless you are the US government, then increased spending is independent of any funding. 
 

Trump helped Ukraine more than Obama in his eight years and opposed the Russia Germany oil line.  Both things are not Russia approved. 
 

Russia didn’t do s#!t with Trump.  It’s a cute Democrat talking point, but that’s as far as it goes. 
 

Go look back with clear eyes at what actions the Trump administration took against Russia and compare to what the Obama administration put into place in his eight years.  Even outlets like CNN agree the Trump Admin was tougher on a Russia. 

[knapplc]

 

Quote

 

37 times Trump was soft on Russia

Trump's narrative is simply false, based on his own actions over the last few years. Here's a breakdown of 37 occasions when Trump was soft on Russia or gave Putin a boost.

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

"I have been much tougher on Russia than Obama, just look at the facts. Total Fake News!"

 

 

Trump said, "I have been much tougher on Russia than Obama, just look at the facts. Total Fake News!"

 

There’s broad agreement that on election meddling, Obama’s actions — while arguably insufficient to the threat at hand — were stronger than Trump’s. On a broader geopolitical level, there has been a significant degree of consistency between the Obama and Trump administrations in actual U.S. policy, and even a few examples where Trump has gone further than Obama did. That said, Trump’s own record of Russia- and Putin-friendly comments have sent contrary messages about U.S. policy toward Russia.

 

We rate Trump’s statement Mostly False.

 

 

[TGHusker]

@knapplc that is a good list and hard to argue against in my opinion.   Besides the article I posted up the thread, I think the evidence is overwhelming that Trump has been influenced and controlled by the Russian Mob.  I suspect that Epstein's death is also connect.  I believe Trump's birther claims and attacks on Obama was an organized disinformation scheme supported or  devised by the Mob and would be a 'pre-runner' to trump's run for the presidency.  It was meant to ignite the alt right, white sense of victim hood & entitlement - a strong trial balloon to see if Trump could gather support of that section of the population.

[Notre Dame Joe]

A nice summary of Obama's role in the hoax.  https://archive.vn/V9fgw

 

Behind the Scenes, Obama Never Left

Lee Smith

 

November 17, 2020 Updated: November 18, 2020

 

Quote

Throughout the spring and summer, records were declassified that gave evidence of Obama’s direct role in the anti-Trump operation. They showed that in January 2017, he’d tasked James Comey to continue the FBI’s phony investigation of Flynn. They documented that John Brennan had told him in July 2016 that Clinton had green-lighted an operation to vilify Trump as a Russian agent. Months later, Obama directed Brennan to produce an intelligence community assessment replicating Clinton’s smear campaign that de-legitimized not only Trump’s presidency but also an election.

“Russiagate” gave rise to the special counsel investigation, which transformed into impeachment, which was replaced by the Democrats’ weaponization of the coronavirus, and the subsequent razing and looting of U.S. cities.

 

Whether or not Obama is now able to consolidate his legacy, the fact is that he’s already carved out his singular place in U.S. history—he’s the first president who interfered in the peaceful transfer of power, for four years. And it’s on his behalf that a rolling coup has pushed a nation to the edge of the abyss in order to remake it in his image.

 

[Notre Dame Joe]

On 5/17/2020 at 5:09 PM, Nebfanatic said:

He was actually initially being investigated for taking money from Turkey without approval. The Logan act makes it illegal for unauthorized citizens to negotiate with foreign governments having a dispute with the US. 

hey does anyone still believe this?

 

 

Quote

Although details of Mr. Zarif’s face-to-face conversations with leading Democrats remain murky, one former senior U.S. official told The Times that the Iranian foreign minister held meetings throughout the Trump years, in 2017, 2018 and 2019, before the administration halted his visa in 2020.

 

Quote

Mr. Kerry has publicly acknowledged meeting with Mr. Zarif at least twice during the early years of the Trump administration.

 

Quote

But Mr. Malley and Mr. Zarif met in 2019, after the JCPOA withdrawal, meaning the dynamic between Washington and Tehran had changed drastically. Sources said it’s likely that Mr. Malley urged Iranian officials to wait out the Trump presidency with the expectation that a Democratic administration in 2021 would restore Obama-era policy.

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/feb/21/john-kerry-held-backchannel-talks-iran-javad-zarif/

 

[Scarlet]

 

[Scarlet]

 

[Scarlet]

I'm wondering why Paul Manafort would slip a known GRU agent internal campaign polling data.  Seems almost collusionish but maybe someone can explain.

 

Also why would he need to have been pardoned?  

[Scarlet]