The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[Redux]

Just now, knapplc said:

 

You label yourself with every post. 

 

If that's the case you're taking out billboards on I 80 to tell the world how liberal you are.

 

Do we really have to keep doing this?  Like seriously, why does one have to think like you to be a free thinker or whatever you claim to be?

[Landlord]

1 hour ago, Redux said:

He literally says he wouldn’t give them aid unless they fired the prosecutor...

 

Correct.

 

1 hour ago, Redux said:

...that was going to investigate burisma

 

Incorrect. This is the distinction you've had explained to you many times but are somehow unable to understand. Yes, Biden wouldn't give them aid unless they fired the prosecutor. But no, it was not connected to Burisma. The prosecutor was not prosecuting Burisma at the time, and despite youtube videos and Glenn Beck making up accusations with no evidence, there is no corroborated claim that Burisma was involved at all. Only hearsay. I don't know how you can spend weeks not being able to understand the difference between assertions that have evidence and testimony and those that have none.

 

 

1 hour ago, Redux said:

But since Biden is a potential candidate against Trump and it happened under Obama's watch it must be totally okay.

 

The hell does Obama have to do with any of this? Why are you extrapolating some nonsense nowhere close to what anyone has ever expressed? For someone who whines incessantly about being mislabeled you're remarkably good at taking someone else's argument and turning it into something much grander and more wide reaching than the person ever communicated.

 

 

58 minutes ago, Redux said:

I literally don't care if you believe me or not, I have nothing to prove to you.  I think Biden is a snake, I think Trump's corrupt, I think most of Washingron should be fired.  But yes, I'm concerned about proving to you that I'm not a Trumper.  Yeah, I honestly don't care anymore.  It used to bother me, but now if you and the echo chamber want to label me a Trumper go ahead.  I'll continue thinking for myself and not regurgitating the crap the liberal media spins without question.

 

I don't think you're a Trumper. Genuinely. But it's pretty clear you have zero literacy when it comes to processing actual news and reliable information. You aren't thinking for yourself; at all. You're being fed absolute gaslighting nonsense and you're eating it up despite many people's repeated efforts to try and lay out good fact checked and corroborated information.

[Landlord]

Yet again, another wasted attempt to try and explain the facts behind why these situations are different and there is not even a remote suspicion of criminal or illegal behavior on the part of Biden.

 

 

 

Biden withheld aid to Ukraine unless Shokin was fired.

 

Trump withheld aid to Ukraine and a White House meeting unless they announced an investigation into Biden.

 

However, both situations are very different from each other. The context behind each matters, and to think of them the same is a logical fallacy known as a false equivalency.

 

Biden acted in his role leading U.S. diplomacy towards Ukraine, and at the wishes of his boss and also of at least a dozen other countries, who all agreed that Shokin was a corrupt and/or incompetent prosecutor who they wanted fired because he wasn't prosecuting criminal activity. Biden's demand was the will of the U.S. government, informed by foreign policy analysts, and supported by several other Western countries togethere. 

 

There is no evidence that Biden was motivated by or acted because of trying to protect his son. It's not impossible that that is true, but there is no evidence that it is true. There is also no evidence that Shokin was investigating Biden's son. There is evidence that the Burisma investigation actually stopped and went quiet under Shokin.

 

 

 

Trump acted in his role as the President, but only for the wishes/desire/support of himself. According to House Democrats, Trump's request actually subverted U.S. foreign policy towards Ukraine and undermined national security. 

 

There is lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of evidence that Trump was motivated by his personal desire to seek dirt on or damage the campaign of a political rival. 

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/29/business/media/fact-check-biden-ukraine-burisma-china-hunter.html

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/trump-twists-facts-on-biden-and-ukraine/

 

https://www.politifact.com/facebook-fact-checks/statements/2019/dec/10/facebook-posts/social-posts-falsely-connect-trumps-impeachment-bi/

 

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/may/07/viral-image/fact-checking-joe-biden-hunter-biden-and-ukraine/

 

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/nov/11/rand-paul/rand-paul-said-trumps-actions-related-ukraine-were/

 

 

[Ratt Mhule]

This guy is still running for POTUS and is an acting US Senator...

[Redux]

7 hours ago, Landlord said:

A lot of stuff

 

Look, before this turns nasty and you use a bunch of big words to throw shade at me, it's totally fine if you want to believe Biden is innocent.  Same thing I told Knapp.  I won't lose sleep over it.

 

I do love how I'm being accused of being deaf and blind and having Trump's guilt repeatedly explained to me even though I've said several times I'm sure he's guilty.  But that's not enough for some.  I need to cry about Trump and give Biden a pass or I'm not literate or something.

 

Biden is guilty, he just made sure to cover his tracks better than the guy whose only been a politician for 4 years.  But by all means, give him the benefit of the doubt.  Again, I really REALLY REALLY do not care lol.

[knapplc]

It's funny how people repeatedly posting links to articles explaining how your accusation against Biden is wrong is, to you, people "throwing shade."

 

You came into this conversation expecting to have trouble, and you steered it into exactly the kind of conversation you expected, mostly by ignoring facts as presented to you. 

 

And now you're playing the victim.  Nobody cares anymore. Go cry wolf somewhere else.

[QMany]

Evergreen:

On 11/27/2019 at 2:32 PM, QMany said:

The bad-faith rationalizations are just lazy at this point. 

[Ulty]

@Redux: You are one of Huskerboard's most lovable characters in so many ways. I might even dare to say that @Redux is a treasure! However, the P&R forum has never really been your element. Over the years, you have dipped your toes into a P&R thread every once in a while, which is wonderful, but you have a tendency, once you are presented with facts or asked to provide your own facts to support of an opinion, to play the victim, leave the thread, and complain about it in the Woodshed. This is nothing new.

 

For some reason you have committed to this Biden conspiracy moreso than other attempts to engage in political discussion. Which is totally cool if you are willing to back up your views with evidence. Or if you don't have actual evidence and are just giving an opinion, that's fine, but you should support your opinions with logic and reasoning based on the evidence. 

 

No one on this board like Joe Biden. If he exited the race, most of us would be happy. But for you to say that he is guilty of something, especially something of equal magnitude of Trump's crimes, begs for some sort of actual evidence, knowing that your opinion flies in the face of intelligence agencies, government experts, and professional journalists who have already looked into it. 

 

Your manner of political debate is not conducive to an otherwise informed discussion on the topic. I haven't weighed in on this topic lately because I haven't had anything intelligent to add that already hasn't been posted, and smarter posters than I have already provided a lot of good info. I would only look foolish if I jumped into a thread and started up with conspiracy theories and parroted conservative radio talking points without having any supporting evidence.

 

Same with your Tulsi Gabbard bit. Believe what you want, but try to lay out an argument in which you use facts and evidence to form a reasonable conclusion. That's what we should all do with any argument, and our opinions, whether they be liberal or conservative, should be informed by the facts and evidence.

[teachercd]

24 minutes ago, Ulty said:

@Redux: You are one of Huskerboard's most lovable characters in so many ways. I might even dare to say that @Redux is a treasure! However, the P&R forum has never really been your element. Over the years, you have dipped your toes into a P&R thread every once in a while, which is wonderful, but you have a tendency, once you are presented with facts or asked to provide your own facts to support of an opinion, to play the victim, leave the thread, and complain about it in the Woodshed. This is nothing new.

 

For some reason you have committed to this Biden conspiracy moreso than other attempts to engage in political discussion. Which is totally cool if you are willing to back up your views with evidence. Or if you don't have actual evidence and are just giving an opinion, that's fine, but you should support your opinions with logic and reasoning based on the evidence. 

 

No one on this board like Joe Biden. If he exited the race, most of us would be happy. But for you to say that he is guilty of something, especially something of equal magnitude of Trump's crimes, begs for some sort of actual evidence, knowing that your opinion flies in the face of intelligence agencies, government experts, and professional journalists who have already looked into it. 

 

Your manner of political debate is not conducive to an otherwise informed discussion on the topic. I haven't weighed in on this topic lately because I haven't had anything intelligent to add that already hasn't been posted, and smarter posters than I have already provided a lot of good info. I would only look foolish if I jumped into a thread and started up with conspiracy theories and parroted conservative radio talking points without having any supporting evidence.

 

Same with your Tulsi Gabbard bit. Believe what you want, but try to lay out an argument in which you use facts and evidence to form a reasonable conclusion. That's what we should all do with any argument, and our opinions, whether they be liberal or conservative, should be informed by the facts and evidence.

Honestly, don't ever think this.  Ever.  Do not think that there are smarter posters on this site about politics, don't think you will look foolish.  Don't worry that a link will be posted or that you will look foolish.  Don't worry that your info won't look as good or will be refuted.  

 

The idea that you need to lay out some argument like it is a legal document is insane.  We are not writing a research paper for Political Science 101, you don't need 10 sources and an annotated bib.  Post when you want to post, what you want to post.

[teachercd]

38 minutes ago, knapplc said:

It's funny how people repeatedly posting links to articles explaining how your accusation against Biden is wrong is, to you, people "throwing shade."

 

You came into this conversation expecting to have trouble, and you steered it into exactly the kind of conversation you expected, mostly by ignoring facts as presented to you. 

 

And now you're playing the victim.  Nobody cares anymore. Go cry wolf somewhere else.

Wait, if you find it funny, like you said in bold, why are you also getting angry?

[funhusker]

11 hours ago, Redux said:

 

The House of Representatives debated articles of impeachment.  They voted to send it to the Senate.  The Senate will vote to remove or not.  We're potentially about to find out how partisanship will be the downfall of our Constitutional government.  If they don't do this by the book, the greatest experiment will be deemed a failure...

 

Enjoy the show 

[Redux]

14 minutes ago, Ulty said:

@Redux: You are one of Huskerboard's most lovable characters in so many ways. I might even dare to say that @Redux is a treasure! However, the P&R forum has never really been your element. Over the years, you have dipped your toes into a P&R thread every once in a while, which is wonderful, but you have a tendency, once you are presented with facts or asked to provide your own facts to support of an opinion, to play the victim, leave the thread, and complain about it in the Woodshed. This is nothing new.

 

For some reason you have committed to this Biden conspiracy moreso than other attempts to engage in political discussion. Which is totally cool if you are willing to back up your views with evidence. Or if you don't have actual evidence and are just giving an opinion, that's fine, but you should support your opinions with logic and reasoning based on the evidence. 

 

No one on this board like Joe Biden. If he exited the race, most of us would be happy. But for you to say that he is guilty of something, especially something of equal magnitude of Trump's crimes, begs for some sort of actual evidence, knowing that your opinion flies in the face of intelligence agencies, government experts, and professional journalists who have already looked into it. 

 

Your manner of political debate is not conducive to an otherwise informed discussion on the topic. I haven't weighed in on this topic lately because I haven't had anything intelligent to add that already hasn't been posted, and smarter posters than I have already provided a lot of good info. I would only look foolish if I jumped into a thread and started up with conspiracy theories and parroted conservative radio talking points without having any supporting evidence.

 

Same with your Tulsi Gabbard bit. Believe what you want, but try to lay out an argument in which you use facts and evidence to form a reasonable conclusion. That's what we should all do with any argument, and our opinions, whether they be liberal or conservative, should be informed by the facts and evidence.

 

I mean, obviously.  I'm a treasure.

 

Well yeah, the dude withholds money to get what he and the POTUS wanted and his son just happened to be involved blah blah blah.  Maybe on the official record it's on the up and up and you can technically call this NOT. Quip Pro Quo, but does anyone really believe that?  Like I know, I know, admitting it out loud would be P&R forum suicide because then your peers would jump you like a pack of wolves.  I get it.  The only reason anyone cares to defend Biden is because he HAS to be innocent because Trump HAS to be guilty.

 

That may be, but he and Trump both did some shady s#!t but only Trump is the target so...

 

I don't have to have a bunch of links at the ready to defend my opinion because I'm not obsessed about this topic or any other.  I understand many in this forum are and it's a big reason this place gets called an echo chamber.  One article is right, the other is hearsay.  I get it, I do.  Giving any credibility to anything that doesn't lynch Trump and the Repubs is P&R forum suicide.

 

Bit?  I keep getting told to use logic and facts.  Then I do and it's all conspiracy.  Defending Google here is just blatant partisanship and being willfully obtuse.  That's the same thing I'm accused of when I don't want to admit the facts are true, so I'm going to thrownit back.

[funhusker]

12 hours ago, Redux said:

Holy blinders Batman

Are the following scenarios the same:

 

Soldier A sees a 10yo girl running up to his squad holding an explosive device so he has to do the unthinkable and terminate the threat.

 

Soldier B sees a 10yo girl running away from his squad after stealing some of their food and shoots her in the back.

 

Both of these situations were essentially caused by war and despicable things in the world, but only one of them is a crime.

[Redux]

7 minutes ago, funhusker said:

The House of Representatives debated articles of impeachment.  They voted to send it to the Senate.  The Senate will vote to remove or not.  We're potentially about to find out how partisanship will be the downfall of our Constitutional government.  If they don't do this by the book, the greatest experiment will be deemed a failure...

 

Enjoy the show 

 

They won't remove, we all know that.

 

Partisanship is a fallacy.  Our government is a sham.

[funhusker]

Just now, Redux said:

 

They won't remove, we all know that.

 

Partisanship is a fallacy.  Our government is a sham.

????