The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[Redux]

2 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

This isn't really the issue being discussed though and to be fair

 

I was discussing just this matter of fact

[Nebfanatic]

Just now, teachercd said:

Totally agree!  

 

Look, some people think OJ was innocent, some think he was guilty.  The facts are the facts but we still have people on both sides.  

 

Same with JFK same with Biden (who again, I don't think what he was accused of doing and what he clearly did is even something that is wrong)

 

Unless there is video evidence there will always be wiggle room.  Totally normal.

The thing with Biden though is a bit different to me. What happened isn't really up for debate. Everyone agrees he held 1 billion in IMF loans over Ukraine as leverage to get a prosecutor fired. These are the facts and they are not in dispute. It's also not in dispute that Shokin was corrupt and everyone wanted him fired. What actually happened is not being debated.

[Redux]

2 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

The thing with Biden though is a bit different to me. What happened isn't really up for debate. Everyone agrees he held 1 billion in IMF loans over Ukraine as leverage to get a prosecutor fired. These are the facts and they are not in dispute. It's also not in dispute that Shokin was corrupt and everyone wanted him fired. What actually happened is not being debated.

 

So it makes it okay he held funds because Shokin was corrupt.  So basically Biden is Robin Hood?

[Nebfanatic]

2 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

I was discussing just this matter of fact

After I made my post. Trump has received some backlash but I don't think anyone has called him satan for using his position to help his kids and honestly it hasn't been that big of a point throughout his presidency. His kids are benefitting just as much if not more than Hunter Biden and it's being reported on but not much else. I'm sure there were some disapproving journalistic pieces directed at Joe and Hunter too. 

[teachercd]

3 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

The thing with Biden though is a bit different to me. What happened isn't really up for debate. Everyone agrees he held 1 billion in IMF loans over Ukraine as leverage to get a prosecutor fired. These are the facts and they are not in dispute. It's also not in dispute that Shokin was corrupt and everyone wanted him fired. What actually happened is not being debated.

Oh yeah, I get what you are saying.

 

Look, I don't have a problem with what he did in this case or in the case of getting his son a sweet gig.  I am totally fine with both.

[Nebfanatic]

Just now, Redux said:

 

So it makes it okay he held funds because Shokin was corrupt.  So basically Biden is Robin Hood?

Yes actually! You are starting to get it. IMF, lender of the funds, wanted Shokin gone and approved holding the funds for this purpose. Trump can pressure Ukraine with aid all he wants if he has congresses consent to complete a US objective. That is A ok and good foriegn policy. 

[Redux]

2 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

Trump has received some backlash but I don't think anyone has called him satan for using his position to help his kids and honestly it hasn't been that big 

 

This is just not true in the slightest.  I really don't have the time to find it, but it was in one of the Trump threads (narrows it down huh) and I made a comment about how him taking $1 as income as POTUS was kinda nice, and then a bunch of talk about how he is a criminal for helping his family.

[Redux]

3 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

Yes actually! You are starting to get it. IMF, lender of the funds, wanted Shokin gone and approved holding the funds for this purpose. Trump can pressure Ukraine with aid all he wants if he has congresses consent to complete a US objective. That is A ok and good foriegn policy. 

 

This makes it stupid.  Congress consent in this situation doesn't really change anything.  A bunch of suits sign off on something so NOW it's kosher.

 

We could cut the government in half and if anything, life would get better for everyone.

[Nebfanatic]

Just now, Redux said:

 

This is just not true in the slightest.  I really don't have the time to find it, but it was in one of the Trump threads (narrows it down huh) and I made a comment about how him taking $1 as income as POTUS was kinda nice, and then a bunch of talk about how he is a criminal for helping his family.

Well there isn't a thread about it so it can't be that big of a deal  if you can find someone calling him satan for it I will say he is getting more flack than others, but to be clear, the way his family is involved in this administration is criminal. And Trump taking a 1$ salary is fools gold when he spends hundreds of millions of tax payer dollars at his privately owned resorts. So if people didn't fall for that 'im doing this for the country' stick I don't blame them.

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 minute ago, Nebfanatic said:

This isn't really the issue being discussed though and to be fair, Ivanka and Jared are benefiting heavily in a similar way to Hunter and are we all over it? Not really. I think most people would agree Hunter Biden shouldn't have been on the board, but that does not make Joe getting Shokin fired a corrupt act.

 

The list of grievances against Donald Trump and his family of grifters is so long that we can hardly stop to take stock in any single offense.

 

Which is why you can't give the apologists and enablers a piece of red meat like this. We can try to measure our false equivalencies, but the wildly unqualified son of a sitting vice-president sitting on the the board of a corrupt foreign interest under his father's purview sure ain't nothing. It may fall short of illegal, but so do most of Trump's corrupt and unethical choices. 

 

I don't just want Donald Trump out of office as soon as possible, I want him to take the brain dead GOP down with him. I could not be more vested in that outcome. But when Americans see Democrats clutching their pearls about Ukraine corruption, claiming they don't hate the President, claiming they even pray for him, they know they're lying.

 

In other words, I'd like the alternative to Donald Trump to be a lot better than they currently are. "Not as bad as Donald Trump" may be true, but it's weak sauce and not particularly inspiring to the new and non-voters who will decided the next election. 

[Nebfanatic]

2 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

This makes it stupid.  Congress consent in this situation doesn't really change anything.  A bunch of suits sign off on something so NOW it's kosher.

 

We could cut the government in half and if anything, life would get better for everyone.

Well they would need to decide if it is in the interest of American national security or just a political axe to grind so yes congressional approval would change everything. They are the ones who create the conditions for the funds being released.

[Nebfanatic]

1 minute ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

The list of grievances against Donald Trump and his family of grifters is so long that we can hardly stop to take stock in any single offense.

 

Which is why you can't give the apologists and enablers a piece of red meat like this. We can try to measure our false equivalencies, but the wildly unqualified son of a sitting vice-president sitting on the the board of a corrupt foreign interest under his father's purview sure ain't nothing. It may fall short of illegal, but so do most of Trump's corrupt and unethical choices. 

 

I don't just want Donald Trump out of office as soon as possible, I want him to take the brain dead GOP down with him. I could not be more vested in that outcome. But when Americans see Democrats clutching their pearls about Ukraine corruption, claiming they don't hate the President, claiming they even pray for him, they know they're lying.

 

In other words, I'd like the alternative to Donald Trump to be a lot better than they currently are. "Not as bad as Donald Trump" may be true, but it's weak sauce and not particularly inspiring to the new and non-voters who will decided the next election. 

So you think Biden fired Shokin to help Hunter out. Welcome to the Soviet propaganda mill. I think everyone agrees Hunter shouldn't have been on that board and that sort of thing isn't something we should be doing in American politics. But this situation has already been looked into and debunked as far as Biden, Shokin and Burisma. Biden was doing his job as VP of the United States when he got Shokin fired plain and simple. That is what is being discussed, Bidens 'QPQ' and how isn't that the same as Trump? If we want to talk about Hunter let's talk about that but it's not related to Shokin getting fired. 

[Nebfanatic]

15 minutes ago, teachercd said:

Oh yeah, I get what you are saying.

 

Look, I don't have a problem with what he did in this case or in the case of getting his son a sweet gig.  I am totally fine with both.

I'm not fine with both but I don't think Joe was using his position to protect his son. I think Hunter should have stayed far away from that job but honestly I don't think Joe could have swayed him away from it. I think Guy said it, but good luck telling your drug addict son not to take a sham of a job that pays 50 k a month. I'm sure he will listen to you. Biden may have not said anything at all to Hunter about it but my guess is if he did Hunter would say screw you dad I'm getting paid

[knapplc]

36 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

And why didn't the intelligence community agree with you on Biden being guilty again?

 

Well, you see, there's these things called "facts" and "evidence."

 

Some people rely on them to form an opinion. CRAZY, INNIT? 

[BigRedBuster]

15 minutes ago, Redux said:

We could cut the government in half and if anything, life would get better for everyone.

I'm a small government fiscal conservative and I even think that line is BS.  Hyperbole at best.