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The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election


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2 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

The proposal I am referring to is simply an education center on this subject and government loans designed to help employees accomplish this sort of sale without devaluing the company for the owner. I like that idea. I think I fall into @Landlord's camp on this whole thing. I don't agree with everything Bernie is proposing in that arena but I certainly can see why it is being proposed and I think there are some good ideas that can be taken from the plan. 

I guess this is where I am at too. The system is broken and we need some ideas on how to fix it. Doing what we are doing now is destroying the very thing most of us want.

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1 hour ago, TGHusker said:

I only got to see the last half of the debate last night.  I understand that it was a rough and tumble affair - more so than the debate prior. 

 

Please tell me your unbiased review of the debate.  Did Bernie defend himself well?  Did any of the others make a compelling case why they should be considered? 

 

The little bit I saw:

Bernie - besides the 20% employee ownership discussion, I think most of us agree that the issues he brings up are vitally important. Again, is his plan to pay for it doable and can he get it through Congress AND is America ready for that big of an adjustment (paying for it)

Biden is having some mental/forgetfulness issues.  I'm not sure if that was apparent throughout but it did give me pause. He stumbles over words, corrects himself, etc. He did have a funny line about being too polite having learned it in Catholic school. (He was complaining on why does he stop talking on time when the others don't)

Warren - I was impressed by the small amount I saw from her.   To Bernie supporters: why do you support Bernie over Warren -seem she has less baggage and yet their policies aren't far apart?  Yes Bernie is the 'pioneer' and a fighter and true believer but the socialist label won't wear well in the GC.  Seems to me that Warren would be a better spokesperson for the causes with a smaller target on her back.  

Amy K - still the most likeable but this isn't a personality contest.  I think she would be a good VP pick.

Tom S - the other billionaire.  First time I really heard him.   I think he had some good things to say and would be an effective debater one on one wt Trump.  He seems to be much more appealing than Bloom.

Plastic Platitude Pete was just that.  He's smart, says the right things but can he back it up.

Bloom - shouldn't be on the stage


I watched about 10 minutes. Realized the moderators suck. Everyone just talking over each other while mods let it happen and turned it off. And from what I saw on twitter it didnt get better. 
 

I liked Warren until she waffled on MFA and said middle class taxes wouldnt go up. Thats a lie. We all know they will and are fine with it as long as we save money in the long run which I think we would. Just be honest about it. Then she leaned way too much into the first woman president thing and lied about Bernie being a secret sexist. She hired a bunch of Kamala/Obama staffers around the same time as her polls dropped and she back away from MFA and from what I hear according to some progressive youtube channels with insiders in her camp she started listening to those people more than the progressive advisors that started with her from the beginning. 

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14 minutes ago, Frott Scost said:

She hired a bunch of Kamala/Obama staffers around the same time as her polls dropped and she back away from MFA and from what I hear according to some progressive youtube channels with insiders in her camp she started listening to those people more than the progressive advisors that started with her from the beginning. 

Sounds like she's been eating at the Waffle House a bit too much.  Say what you will about Bernie, there is no waffling in him. 

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39 minutes ago, Frott Scost said:

I liked Warren until she waffled on MFA and said middle class taxes wouldnt go up. Thats a lie. We all know they will and are fine with it as long as we save money in the long run which I think we would. Just be honest about it. Then she leaned way too much into the first woman president thing and lied about Bernie being a secret sexist. She hired a bunch of Kamala/Obama staffers around the same time as her polls dropped and she back away from MFA and from what I hear according to some progressive youtube channels with insiders in her camp she started listening to those people more than the progressive advisors that started with her from the beginning. 

^ Well stated. Bernie has flaws but at the end of the day, he says what he means, and he means what he says. He's more consistent than my 9AM deuce. He has the best interest of a majority of Americans in mind, not just doing this as some ego trip. I don't hate Warren but the BS smear on Bernie made her look terrible. Like I said give me the guy that wants to talk about the issues, and it looking out for the working American - sick of toxicity that has embraced American Politics . 

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3 hours ago, TGHusker said:

I think you missed Landlord's and Blitz's posts.  - my primary aim.

 

19 hours ago, Landlord said:

Regulating them to a degree ... is one proposed solution to combat the big mean corporations. 

 

There are other proposed solutions as well.

 

20 hours ago, Landlord said:

You don't have to agree with the conclusion to be able to understand the mindset behind why it makes sense.

 

20 hours ago, Landlord said:

I don't know how I feel about that plan of Bernie's

 

20 hours ago, Landlord said:

We're yelling at a proposed action designed to help people currently being grossly taken advantage of, when nobody else is offering ANY solution to help those people,  and many are fine to keep pushing in a direction that only makes it worse.

 

 

 

I have no idea how you see my posts in here as a 'fierce defense'.

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3 hours ago, Nebfanatic said:

The proposal I am referring to is simply an education center on this subject and government loans designed to help employees accomplish this sort of sale without devaluing the company for the owner. I like that idea. I think I fall into @Landlord's camp on this whole thing. I don't agree with everything Bernie is proposing in that arena but I certainly can see why it is being proposed and I think there are some good ideas that can be taken from the plan. 

Like I said, if the proposal is to educate employees and owners on how it can be done and give loan guarantees to the employees....great.

 

If it gets anywhere close to forcing the owner to sell to the employees.  I'm totally out of supporting this.

 

 

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Going back to the incredibly stupid idea that we are going to force owners to give 20% of their company away to the employees.

 

Last night, I was responding sitting in an airport and on the plane I got to thinking about this.  Here's a nightmare scenario that this incredibly idiotic idea could cause.

 

Let's say my family owns a company that reaches the 100 million net worth.  Let's say there are 6 family members that are involved with the company and equally own the business.  That means, each owner, owns 16.7% or (16.6 million).    Now....the government forces the company to give away 20% to the employees.  Let's say we have 100 employees.  That means now that the employees own 20% and each family member now owns 13.36% (13.36 million).  Each employee owns $200,000 of the company.  

 

First of all, who is going to buy these stocks if/when an employee quits or retires?  What benefit is it to them?  There are lots of these types of companies that don't pay dividends.  It's not a publicly traded company so it's not a liquid asset.  That's a part that hasn't even been addressed anywhere that I can see.  

 

To make this of really any value to the employee, it would need to be able to be sold....probably opened up to anyone.

 

So....now....let's say there is a person who wants to buy our company and the family doesn't want to sell it.  NOW....he goes to the employees and says....hey....I'll give you $100,000 each for all of your stock.  They jump on it because they would have the cash.  

 

He now owns 20% of a $100 million company for $10,000,000 and has more control over the company than any other individual stock holder.

 

Now...let's say the bank comes and says..."We need you to guarantee the loans since you are the major stock holder.  He says NO.

 

The company loses funding from the bank and goes out of business 

 

Now...you may be asking...why would someone do that?  Let's say he's a competitor and we have a technology that he wants.  He can get control of the technology to use somewhere else.  Meanwhile, the family who risked everything to start the company and grow it, is financially ruined or, at best, have lost their company and lively hood.

 

Maybe you are saying...Ahhh...that's far fetched.  Well....stuff like this happens all the time in publicly traded companies and specifically why many privately held companies don't go public and are very careful as to who they let own stock.

 

The entire idea of forcing a business owner to give away 20% of his/her company to anyone is put out there by people who absolutely haven't thought through the actual idea and how bad it is.  All they see are these big mean business owners and say..."WE WANT WHAT YOU HAVE".

 

 

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From a completely outside perspective on who I think has the best chance head to head against Trump, Bloomberg.  I think he has the funds to battle the incumbent, plus he was nowhere to be seen really when the Dem primaries began, which let's be honest, works in his favor.

 

I feel like Bernie will lose by 5-10% head to head.  Bernie's plans all sound great when he says them out loud, he's had plenty of practice.  But when you think about it, they'll never work.  

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