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TGHusker

The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

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16 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

True story: at the 1880 Republican National Convention, John Sherman was one of three candidates in a tightly knit fight for the nomination. Sherman chose James Garfield to give his nominating speech because Garfield was a good speaker and generally respected across the party factions. Garfield was such a good speaker that some delegates thought he'd make a better President than any of them. They cast 35 votes that convention, each one garnering more delegates for Garfield until Garfield won the nomination. He wasn't running and really didn't want the job but became our 20th President. A guy shot him and Garfield would have survived but his doctors were idiots who caused the infections that eventually killed him. 

 

This could be an old-school convention if Joe Biden accumulates too much buyer's remorse. 

Great post.  And I think there is some buyer's remorse setting in.  Biden being some what silenced by this whole crisis.  When he does speak it is becoming clear that not all is right 'upstairs'.  As I recall, Obama as a candidate during the Oct 2008 crisis was more forceful and out shined McCain during that period - which I think helped put him in the WH.

 

 

Related:  I had forgotten about that historical convention.  Kind of reminds me of the speech Ronald Reagan gave on behalf of Barry Goldwater a few days before the 1964 election.  It had people thinking the wrong guy was on the ticket and thus began the push for Reagan to run for Calif governor and the rest is history.  This is the speech: A Time for Choosing.  I know, Guy and others aren't Reagan fans but this was presented at a different time with a different type of crisis that the country was facing.  I think it is a great speech.

 

 

 

 

 

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I feel like my opinion is rare, I'm going to vote Bernie in the primary, but I would for sure vote Biden if he was the nominee. I'm thinking my opinion just feels rare based on social media, everyone shouting at the top of their lungs at each other. The OMG you're gonna vote that commie Bernie, or OMG you're gonna vote that capitalist Biden. Theres even been many redditors on the Bernie sub that are saying they'll vote Trump over Biden - so people want progressive, but will vote not progressive just to stick it to candidate that's not as progressive as theirs?

 

Long Story Short, I'll vote the more progressive of the candidates whether that be Bernie in the primary, or Biden in the general - and I don't understand people and probably never will. 

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1 hour ago, TGHusker said:

Great post.  And I think there is some buyer's remorse setting in.  Biden being some what silenced by this whole crisis.  When he does speak it is becoming clear that not all is right 'upstairs'.  As I recall, Obama as a candidate during the Oct 2008 crisis was more forceful and out shined McCain during that period - which I think helped put him in the WH.

 

 

Related:  I had forgotten about that historical convention.  Kind of reminds me of the speech Ronald Reagan gave on behalf of Barry Goldwater a few days before the 1964 election.  It had people thinking the wrong guy was on the ticket and thus began the push for Reagan to run for Calif governor and the rest is history.  This is the speech: A Time for Choosing.  I know, Guy and others aren't Reagan fans but this was presented at a different time with a different type of crisis that the country was facing.  I think it is a great speech.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep. Convention speeches have a history of this. The 1964 Goldwater convention made Reagan a (political) star. The 2004 Democratic convention made state senator Obama a star. IIRC Bill Clinton became a star at the 1988 Democratic Convention that nominated the forgettable Michael Dukakis, but at the time Clinton was mocked for going on WAAAAY too long and trying to steal the spotlight. 

 

But it's been awhile since sh!t went down at the convention itself.

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1 hour ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

Theres even been many redditors on the Bernie sub that are saying they'll vote Trump over Biden - so people want progressive, but will vote not progressive just to stick it to candidate that's not as progressive as theirs?

 

I would imagine a fair number of those are Russian trolls, or conservatives claiming to be Bernie supporters.  Bernie & Trump are polar opposites. It would take a truly bizarre person to vote for Trump instead of the comparatively more Bernie-like Biden.

 

 

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2 hours ago, TGHusker said:

Great post.  And I think there is some buyer's remorse setting in.  Biden being some what silenced by this whole crisis.  When he does speak it is becoming clear that not all is right 'upstairs'.  As I recall, Obama as a candidate during the Oct 2008 crisis was more forceful and out shined McCain during that period - which I think helped put him in the WH.

 

Two things:
 

Biden is fine mentally. He's not as sharp as he was when he was younger but that's normal age-related decline. There's no reason to think he's any less capable than either of the other old geezers running right now. He's just a stutterer who gets tripped up on his words some times and uses abrupt word changes mid-sentence as a strategy to overcome his stutter. I firmly believe if he was in serious cognitive decline as some of our folks claim for their own purposes there is no way the party would coalesce behind him. They'd have moved heaven and Earth to get someone else in or lined up behind Bloomberg.

 

The other problem is Biden IS speaking out but it's not getting covered live because A) he's doing it from his home and not a public venue B) Bernie insists on staying in the race for the foreseeable future instead of bowing out letting us move on to the general election and C) the media has to give Trump lying and flinging feces at his enemies blanket wall-to-wall coverage every day.

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3 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

I would imagine a fair number of those are Russian trolls, or conservatives claiming to be Bernie supporters.  Bernie & Trump are polar opposites. It would take a truly bizarre person to vote for Trump instead of the comparatively more Bernie-like Biden.

 

 

 

Oh yeah. The Bernie subs on Reddit are echo chambers and I seriously doubt that the majority of people posting there are even eligible to vote or actually plan to.

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5 minutes ago, knapplc said:
2 hours ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

Theres even been many redditors on the Bernie sub that are saying they'll vote Trump over Biden - so people want progressive, but will vote not progressive just to stick it to candidate that's not as progressive as theirs?

 

I would imagine a fair number of those are Russian trolls, or conservatives claiming to be Bernie supporters.  Bernie & Trump are polar opposites. It would take a truly bizarre person to vote for Trump instead of the comparatively more Bernie-like Biden.

 

 

I'm a die hard Bernie fan...but in no way shape or form would I ever vote for Trump.  I'd vote for anyone besides him.  Knap is correct.

 

I hate Biden with a passion because he can't ever tell the truth and will continue lying in the White House...but he isn't a frigtard like Trump is and he'll attempt to fix most of what Trump broke so he's the better choice.

 

 

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Just now, BlitzFirst said:

 

I'm a die hard Bernie fan...but in no way shape or form would I ever vote for Trump.  I'd vote for anyone besides him.  Knap is correct.

 

I hate Biden with a passion because he can't ever tell the truth and will continue lying in the White House...but he isn't a frigtard like Trump is and he'll attempt to fix most of what Trump broke so he's the better choice.

 

 

 

Yep. Whatever problems we have to fix after a Biden presidency will pale in comparison to what we'll have to fix after another four years of Trump. 

 

I've never cared who the Dem nominee was. Some are better than others, but all are/were head & shoulders above Trump. Not even close.

 

I feel like a lot of the "division" on the left is either people debating political values without rancor or misinformation provided by Russia or American conservatives. 

 

I think a LOT of people feel the same way you and I feel.  I think @RedDenver and @Frott Scost and @BigRedBuster all feel this way, and I think we all have dissimilar politics.  But I'd happily live under four years of any of their politics than the guy we have now.

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17 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Yep. Convention speeches have a history of this. The 1964 Goldwater convention made Reagan a (political) star. The 2004 Democratic convention made state senator Obama a star. IIRC Bill Clinton became a star at the 1988 Democratic Convention that nominated the forgettable Michael Dukakis, but at the time Clinton was mocked for going on WAAAAY too long and trying to steal the spotlight. 

 

But it's been awhile since sh!t went down at the convention itself.

Yes I remember that Clinton speech for the length and not for what was said (Clinton's speeches were normally like that - a lot of words, not great substance) .  And Obama's speech most assuredly set him up for 2008.  Teddy Kennedy's "The Dream Shall Never Die' speech in 1980 also drew a sharp contrast between him and Carter & showed Carter was weak in comparison - perfect fodder for Reagan to destroy in the election.  But the stars weren't right for him in 1984 or beyond.  Reagan's 1976 speech did the same thing for Gerald Ford - buyers regret was evident.  But it wasn't Reagan's time. 

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3 minutes ago, knapplc said:

think a LOT of people feel the same way you and I feel.  I think @RedDenver and @Frott Scost and @BigRedBuster all feel this way, and I think we all have dissimilar politics.  But I'd happily live under four years of any of their politics than the guy we have now.

Pardon me  :xcuse:include - .. in that reference. :lol:

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4 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Yes I remember that Clinton speech for the length and not for what was said (Clinton's speeches were normally like that - a lot of words, not great substance) .  And Obama's speech most assuredly set him up for 2008.  Teddy Kennedy's "The Dream Shall Never Die' speech in 1980 also drew a sharp contrast between him and Carter & showed Carter was weak in comparison - perfect fodder for Reagan to destroy in the election.  But the stars weren't right for him in 1984 or beyond.  Reagan's 1976 speech did the same thing for Gerald Ford - buyers regret was evident.  But it wasn't Reagan's time. 

 

Also as I recall.....at the 1976 Republican Convention there was talk about making Ronald Reagan Gerald Ford's VP, but selling it more as a Co-Presidency. I don't know how seriously it was taken by the players involved, just that it became Convention chatter. 

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10 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Also as I recall.....at the 1976 Republican Convention there was talk about making Ronald Reagan Gerald Ford's VP, but selling it more as a Co-Presidency. I don't know how seriously it was taken by the players involved, just that it became Convention chatter. 

Actually it was the other way around.  At the 1980 convention there was a move to make Ford Reagan's VP.  The thought was that Reagan had zero foreign affairs experience and the GOP establishment, never a Reagan fan, wanted some one established in foreign affairs and make him sort of  a Prime Minister.  The thought was that Reagan had the domestic vision but he needed someone wt weight on foreign affairs.  It just about occurred until Reagan realized the Ford camp wanted a co-presidency. He shut it down.  It was a mild surprise when he asked Bush to be his VP.  GHWB was both 'humbled' and somewhat surprised when asked. 

From Reagan's autobiography "Ronald Reagan, An American Life" which is a great read regardless of political persuasion as it is full of all of the Reagan stories and jokes too.  Page 216:

Quote

"For several days, I had expected Ford to be on the ticket and I hadn't given much thought to other candidates; now I had to choose a running mate and time was of essence. The delegates were waiting for me at the Joe Louis Arena.....  The obvious choice was George Bush. We had been through a competitive and sometimes rough primary battle but I had always liked him personally and I had great respect for his abilities and breadth of experience, and  I knew he had a lot of support within the party.   .... A few moments after Gerald Ford left my suite, I called Bush and said:  " George, it seems to me that the fellow who came the closest and got the next most votes for president ought to be the logical choice for vp. Will you take it?"  George jumped at it without a moment's hesitation and said he'd be pleased to be on the ticket".

 

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4 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Actually it was the other way around.  At the 1980 convention there was a move to make Ford Reagan's VP.  The thought was that Reagan had zero foreign affairs experience and the GOP establishment, never a Reagan fan, wanted some one established in foreign affairs and make him sort of  a Prime Minister.  The thought was that Reagan had the domestic vision but he needed someone wt weight on foreign affairs.  It just about occurred until Reagan realized the Ford camp wanted a co-presidency. He shut it down.  It was a mild surprise when he asked Bush to be his VP.  GHWB was both 'humbled' and somewhat surprised when asked. 

From Reagan's autobiography "Ronald Reagan, An American Life" which is a great read regardless of political persuasion as it is full of all of the Reagan stories and jokes too.  Page 216:

 

 

Thanks. That makes more sense. 

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