The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[TGHusker]

6 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

Trump - who votes by mail, is anti voting by mail. Seriously, who the hell is voting for this guy???

Mail in voting members of the Trump Tin Foil Hat Club and other related cults.

[Undone]

3 hours ago, knapplc said:

Meanwhile, @Notre Dame Joe's president is going to have 200,000 American deaths on his hands by Election Day because he only just now jumped on the mask bandwagon.

 

If the proper goal in this particular pandemic is to slow the spread for as long as possible, then mask wearing is essential. I take in sh*t loads of information on C19 and I still see conflicting arguments as to whether or not this will really pay off. I maintain that we will only know in hindsight what the proper response was, even though current data obviously greatly informs us as to which methods we should be using.

 

We flattened the curve. Then we caught the full weight of just how contagious C19 is and saw another spike.

 

So again: If the right play is slowing the spread as much as possible, then there is no disagreement - Trump should have told everybody to wear masks much sooner.

 

At this point I'd like to see a federal mask mandate, with the threat of serious fines for not complying. Not because I like the idea as it pertains to my personal political leanings on the legality of such a thing but for science; I'd like to see how the U.S. numbers do/don't change if every single person is walking around with a mask on.

 

[knapplc]

There's no "if" anymore. It's working in other countries. Full stop.

[Undone]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

There's no "if" anymore. It's working in other countries. Full stop.

 

Seriously, please humor my dialogue, knapp.

 

I did not say that there's doubt as to whether or not everyone wearing masks 24/7 limits the spread of C19. I am 100% positive that it does. This is because it is basic common sense; any physical barrier around the mouth/nose limits both transmission and reception.

 

But that's not what I said.

 

When you say "It's working in other countries," I am in complete agreement - if the one and only definition of "it's working" means it lowers infection rates currently.

 

But my own threshold of certainty is apparently higher than other people's as it pertains to whether or not this causes the pandemic to actually get further drawn out or not - meaning for years and years. That is my point. 

 

I can take this over to the COVID thread.

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, Undone said:

Seriously, please humor my dialogue, knapp.

 

 

Nobody is preventing you from sharing your opinions.

 

 

[Undone]

Just now, knapplc said:

Nobody is preventing you from sharing your opinions.

 

Agreed fully.

[Danny Bateman]

21 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

Agreed fully.

 

If I may... I think everything you've said is entirely reasonable. Reasonable skepticism is healthy.

 

That said, we shouldn't be asking whether wearing masks is the key to slowing the spread and ultimately overcoming the pandemic. You're right when you say what we think we know right now may well be proven incorrect in the next weeks or months. Right now, what we know is mask wearing is PROBABLY beneficial.

 

So if it's probably beneficial, we shouldn't be asking "should we all do this?" We should be asking "why should we NOT all do this? What's the harm?"

Very trivial downsides to mask wearing; for most it's at most an inconvenience. Given that, our leaders should err on the side of caution and lead by example. Trump has absolutely failed in this regard by sowing so much doubt.

[knapplc]

I'm waiting for Trump to get the same blowback for his flip-flop on wearing masks ("Masks are patriotic") like Fauci is getting.

 

Fauci's messaging has been consistent for months now. The biggest problem is, he's not the loudest voice in the room - and that loud voice is not only shouting over Fauci, he's actively preventing Fauci from testifying to the American people on school reopening.

 

And it's not like Trump is trusted. Clearly he isn't. He just has a larger platform to get his stuff out than anyone else.

 

 

[Undone]

3 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

Very trivial downsides to mask wearing; for most it's at most an inconvenience. Given that, our leaders should err on the side of caution and lead by example. Trump has absolutely failed in this regard by sowing so much doubt.

 

Yeah it's been bizarre to me that in an election year he didn't err on the side of telling people to wear masks. Not really sure how he thought his payout would be better with this move.

[Danny Bateman]

Just now, Undone said:

 

Yeah it's been bizarre to me that in an election year he didn't err on the side of telling people to wear masks. Not really sure how he thought his payout would be better with this move.

 

He's impulsive - at times, bordering on oppositionally defiant like a child - and has a very difficult time anyone tries to tell him his instincts are wrong.

 

Somewhere he got the seed planted in his head he could rev up his base by fighting masks and that was that.

 

Trump is rarely logical or at the very least, thinks very differently than the rest of us. I have a feeling his behavior will be an interesting case study for future generations.

[knapplc]

17 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

He's impulsive - at times, bordering on oppositionally defiant like a child - and has a very difficult time anyone tries to tell him his instincts are wrong.

 

Somewhere he got the seed planted in his head he could rev up his base by fighting masks and that was that.

 

Trump is rarely logical or at the very least, thinks very differently than the rest of us. I have a feeling his behavior will be an interesting case study for future generations.

 

He's a dangerously narcissistic sociopath. The only time his actions surprise me is when he accidentally does/says something that's correct.

 

Offhand, I can't think of such an instance.

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, Undone said:

At this point I'd like to see a federal mask mandate, with the threat of serious fines for not complying. Not because I like the idea as it pertains to my personal political leanings on the legality of such a thing but for science; I'd like to see how the U.S. numbers do/don't change if every single person is walking around with a mask on.

 

At this point, if Biden wins and does this, the MAGA crowd would revolt.  That is....after they protest violently claiming Trump really won.

[Undone]

16 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

At this point, if Biden wins and does this, the MAGA crowd would revolt.  That is....after they protest violently claiming Trump really won.

 

Up is down and left is purple; 2020 is such a f***** up year.

[TGHusker]

2 hours ago, Undone said:

At this point I'd like to see a federal mask mandate, with the threat of serious fines for not complying. Not because I like the idea as it pertains to my personal political leanings on the legality of such a thing but for science; I'd like to see how the U.S. numbers do/don't change if every single person is walking around with a mask on.

I think that is the only way we get a handle on this.  We have to starve the virus.    When everyone was 'sheltering in place' and being careful, pre-May, the virus trend was moving down.  But in the push to open up the economy,  we gave the virus new life.  Led by Trump and GOP governors the idea of opening was to give a boast to the economy and insure tRump's re-election. However, that strategy is back firing and the 'hurt' on the economy is being prolonged because of the short sighted & narcissistic actions of this president and his supporters..  Here in Okla, things are worse in the open phase than the shelter in place phase. I have co-workers who now have it- some who were working from home but got it after coming back to work.

[Undone]

2 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

I think that is the only way we get a handle on this.  We have to starve the virus.    When everyone was 'sheltering in place' and being careful, pre-May, the virus trend was moving down.  But in the push to open up the economy,  we gave the virus new life.  Led by Trump and GOP governors the idea of opening was to give a boast to the economy and insure tRump's re-election. However, that strategy is back firing and the 'hurt' on the economy is being prolonged because of the short sighted & narcissistic actions of this president and his supporters..  Here in Okla, things are worse in the open phase than the shelter in place phase. I have co-workers who now have it- some who were working from home but got it after coming back to work.

 

The conversation really boils down to masks, though. You're phrasing your comments as if reopening the economy is some kind of insane/extreme notion. If Trump would have mandated an extreme, extended lockdown I have this sneaking suspicion you'd be on here right now condemning him for having killed the economy.

 

For this reason, again I say, this is really about masks at this point.