The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[Danny Bateman]

I like you Red but you're wrong on this one. Don't fall into this both sides trap. It's exactly what they want people to do with Clinton and it's easy to do because most people don't like her. But she's correct on this one.

 

Progressives consistently chide their moderate colleagues for not fighting hard enough. I'd think you'd applaud this.

[Guy Chamberlin]

12 hours ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

Probably because Pelosi isn't even a leftie....

 

She is definitely more threatened by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez than she is Donald Trump. 

[RedDenver]

5 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

It is not only not controversial, it's not hard to understand that this is what Clinton is saying. 

If you want to say that there's more context if Hillary's comments are shown in there entirety, then by all means show the video or transcript.

 

2 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

I like you Red but you're wrong on this one. Don't fall into this both sides trap. It's exactly what they want people to do with Clinton and it's easy to do because most people don't like her. But she's correct on this one.

 

Progressives consistently chide their moderate colleagues for not fighting hard enough. I'd think you'd applaud this.

You're missing the point. I'm saying Hillary has just made it MUCH easier for Trump and team to use the "both sides" argument. There's literally no reason for her to say anything about conceding or not conceding the election since it's based on absolutely nothing. Whether to concede or not will be based on what actually happens. There's literally no way for Hillary to be correct because she's wildly speculating on events that haven't happened.

[BigRedBuster]

44 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

 

Hillary is pushing for Biden not to concede no matter what. What an idiot.

 

She just needs to go away....a long ways away....

 

Go play with your grandkids.

[knapplc]

Just now, RedDenver said:

If you want to say that there's more context if Hillary's comments are shown in there entirety, then by all means show the video or transcript.

 

I'm taking Clinton's comments at face value, not listening to Ball's spin on what she said.

 

3 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I'm saying Hillary has just made it MUCH easier for Trump and team to use the "both sides" argument.

 

Trump is going to use whatever anyone anywhere says to fuel his arguments. You have two choices - keep speaking your truth or remain silent and let him have the stage.  

 

Democrats can't worry that Trump is going to spin their words, and they can't hearken to hit when he does. This is a weird argument.

 

3 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

There's literally no reason for her to say anything about conceding or not conceding the election since it's based on absolutely nothing. Whether to concede or not will be based on what actually happens. There's literally no way for Hillary to be correct because she's wildly speculating on events that haven't happened.

 

Except that Trump has shown he's going to pull every dirty trick he and Putin can think of to try to stay in power.  She's responding to Trump's own words.

[RedDenver]

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

I'm taking Clinton's comments at face value, not listening to Ball's spin on what she said.

That's fine. I posted Hillary's quote, and my opinion on it's stupidity remains.

 

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Trump is going to use whatever anyone anywhere says to fuel his arguments. You have two choices - keep speaking your truth or remain silent and let him have the stage.  

 

Democrats can't worry that Trump is going to spin their words, and they can't hearken to hit when he does. This is a weird argument.

But why give Trump easy layups? And why engage in wild speculation? Those only help Trump.

 

You've been beating the drum that getting Trump out of office is the priority, and to do that Biden needs to win. So I ask you: Do Hillary's comments help or hurt Biden's chances?

 

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Except that Trump has shown he's going to pull every dirty trick he and Putin can think of to try to stay in power.  She's responding to Trump's own words.

But she's not responding to Trump's own words. She could have talked about the integrity of our elections, addressed what Trump actually said, etc. But she instead engaged in speculation and how not conceding was the way to address said speculation.

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, RedDenver said:

But she's not responding to Trump's own words. She could have talked about the integrity of our elections, addressed what Trump actually said, etc. But she instead engaged in speculation and how not conceding was the way to address said speculation.

 

That's how left-wing Ben Shapiro reads it. That's not how I read it. It's very easy to see what she's saying.

[RedDenver]

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

That's how left-wing Ben Shapiro reads it. That's not how I read it. It's very easy to see what she's saying.

I agree, it is very easy to see what she's saying. And what she's saying is counter-productive. And it's easy to see if you change the players:

 

Quote

"Donald Trump should not concede under any circumstances because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is," Bill Barr said in an excerpt posted Tuesday.

 

Nice ad hominem attack BTW.

[knapplc]

Just now, RedDenver said:

I agree, it is very easy to see what she's saying. And what she's saying is counter-productive. And it's easy to see if you change the players:

 

 

Nice ad hominem attack BTW.

 

She is what she is.

 

And you can't change the names and have the same meaning because different people have different intentions.

 

My mom used white sheets. The KKK uses white sheets. Not the same.

[Guy Chamberlin]

29 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

If you want to say that there's more context if Hillary's comments are shown in there entirety, then by all means show the video or transcript.

 

You're missing the point. I'm saying Hillary has just made it MUCH easier for Trump and team to use the "both sides" argument. There's literally no reason for her to say anything about conceding or not conceding the election since it's based on absolutely nothing. Whether to concede or not will be based on what actually happens. There's literally no way for Hillary to be correct because she's wildly speculating on events that haven't happened.

 

Gotta agree. Even people who didn't like Trump used Hillary as an excuse to vote for him. Fairness and rationality having little to do with it. 

 

Inserting Hillary into Joe Biden's campaign, with even a hint the Democrats wouldn't concede, is a gift to the GOP, who would love to run against Hillary every year for perpetuity. 

[RedDenver]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

She is what she is.

 

And you can't change the names and have the same meaning because different people have different intentions.

I'm pointing out what it would be like if the shoe was on the other foot.

 

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

My mom used white sheets. The KKK uses white sheets. Not the same.

Sure, but if your mom used white sheets to make pointy hoods, then that's entirely different. It's a poor analogy.

 

And you didn't answer my question of whether Hillary saying these things helps or hurts Biden's chances.

Here's Hillary's quote again (emphasis mine):

Quote

"Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is," Clinton said in an excerpt posted Tuesday.

 

 

 

[TGHusker]

Axios  notes reason for Biden supporters to be nervous.  Trump still has an opportunity to with the election. 

Swing states are closer now then  in 2016 when Clinton had a larger lead over Trump in those swing states  - except in Florida.  If Biden were to win Florida, that would be huge. 

 

 

 

https://www.axios.com/trump-upset-biden-2020-election-da37cdd6-1b96-4377-9584-9df9f2554055.html

Quote

 

It feels like August of 2016 all over again. Polls show Donald Trump losing big. Pundits proclaim he can't win. Reporters sneer at Trump voters on Twitter and cable. 

Why it matters: There are several signs that should give the Trump-is-toast self-assured pause.

• He’s doing better in some swing-state polls than he was at this point in 2016. And his floor of support holds strong, regardless of what he says or does. 
• Not only is the stock market on fire, but a lot of blue-collar workers in building, plumbing and other manual crafts are doing quite well, too.

Trump’s big bet is that there are a lot of working class voters, especially in rural areas, who did not vote in 2016 but will this time.

• His other bet is that months of dumping on Joe Biden, often with lies or wild hyperbole, will do what he did to Hillary Clinton: Make the Democratic nominee seem slightly more unpalatable than himself. 

The New York Times profiled a swath of Trump's steadfast supporters who "outlined myriad reasons for wanting to re-elect him, ranging from the pragmatic ... to a gut-level attraction to his hard-nosed personality."

• And the "social desirability" factor in polling — do we tell the blunt truth? — is a huge unknown this year because of the new attention to racial issues.

Behind the scenes: People in Trump’s orbit feel much better about the race than they did in mid-June.

• These officials feel the operation is becoming more disciplined, and is more centered around a message — that Biden and Sen. Kamala Harris embrace leftist policies, and won’t stand up to the violent excesses of the far left.

A few caveats: Biden has some strengths that Clinton didn’t. He's viewed more favorably — and is stronger among seniors, eating into Trump’s sweet spot.

• Women and college-educated whites have continued drifting away from Trump.
• And Trump now has a record to defend, so he doesn’t have the outsider factor that he exploited last time.

Although Biden isn’t as polarizing as Clinton inside or outside the Democratic Party, the Black Lives Matter movement and calls for social justice and progressive changes are tugging Biden to the left.

• President Obama recently told The New Yorker's Evan Osnos: "If you look at Joe Biden’s goals and Bernie Sanders’s goals, they’re not that different, from a forty-thousand-foot level."

Remember: A recent Wall Street Journal/NBC poll found 13% of voters remain "in play," enough to tip the election.

• It also found Trump’s standing with Hispanics is as good if not better than 2016 — and had improved his image by 20 points among whites, who are more than 70% of the electorate.

 

[knapplc]

8 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

And you didn't answer my question of whether Hillary saying these things helps or hurts Biden's chances.

Here's Hillary's quote again (emphasis mine):

 

I've told you I see nothing wrong with the statement. You're in an argumentative mood, clearly, so you need to belabor this point.

 

Truth is, I don't think anything Hillary says hurts or helps Biden. I think the vast majority of people disregard her, and are not influenced by what she says. Trump & the Trumpists don't even bother with "lock her up" anymore. Nobody cares.

 

But what she said, in the context of 2000, is good advice, and not controversial. 

[RedDenver]

4 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

I've told you I see nothing wrong with the statement. You're in an argumentative mood, clearly, so you need to belabor this point.

Holy mother of kettle!!

 

4 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Truth is, I don't think anything Hillary says hurts or helps Biden. I think the vast majority of people disregard her, and are not influenced by what she says. Trump & the Trumpists don't even bother with "lock her up" anymore. Nobody cares.

 

But what she said, in the context of 2000, is good advice, and not controversial. 

We'll just have to disagree then.

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, RedDenver said:

Holy mother of kettle!!

 

 

Nice. I'd already answered the question you demanded an answer to. But sure, I'm the argumentative one.