The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[knapplc]

Just now, BlitzFirst said:

 

You really didn't.

 

Saying "I see nothing wrong with the statement" Hillary made is not taking a position on whether it helps or hurts Biden. 

 

Are you being vague in your answer because you don't think it does either?  If so, be clearer in your intent and RedDenver would probably have been satisfied with the answer.

 

When someone tries to have a conversation with you and you seem to be avoiding giving a clear answer repetitively, it leads the other side of the convo to believe you're being deliberately obtuse in your answer.

 

Thank you. I will try to be a better person in the future. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

17 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

 

 

Truth is, I don't think anything Hillary says hurts or helps Biden. I think the vast majority of people disregard her, and are not influenced by what she says. Trump & the Trumpists don't even bother with "lock her up" anymore. Nobody cares.

 

 

Not to belabor the point, but I contend that literally anything Hillary says hurts Biden, and not only do people care, the GOP is actually thrilled to unleash this Clinton Resistance meme to their base, and Democrats are wildly conflicted about what to do with this particular party stalwart. 

 

8 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Nice. I'd already answered the question you demanded an answer to. But sure, I'm the argumentative one.

 

Correct. 

[knapplc]

2 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Not to belabor the point, but I contend that literally anything Hillary says hurts Biden, and not only do people care, the GOP is actually thrilled to unleash this Clinton Resistance meme to their base, and Democrats are wildly conflicted about what to do with this particular party stalwart. 

 

Oh, by all means belabor it.

 

  

2 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Correct. 

 

Thank you for this constructive criticism. I'll do my best to be better in the future.

 

 

[Danny Bateman]

A simple thought exercise: Take what Clinton said, and say AOC or Bernie said it instead.

Would you guys still be saying they need to shut their traps for fear of it helping Trump, both sides ism, whatever?

 

I'm all out of f#&%s to give when people want to raise a stink every time she says something, particularly when she's right.

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, Danny Bateman said:

I'm all out of f#&%s to give when people want to raise a stink every time she says something, particularly when she's right.

 

Especially from the wings of either party, who tend to blow things like this out of proportion. 

[Danny Bateman]

Look, she's unpopular. I get that. I have thought and continue to think her likeability is inexorably gendered - obviously not entirely but definitely in part - but that's really beside the point. She's not popular, certainly not with anyone right of center or on the left.

 

So I get the impulse that people think she should just be hiding on a remote island somewhere until after the election blows over to avoid influencing anything.

 

But I frankly just don't care what the MAGA meme crowd does with this. Their audience was always going to vote for Trump anyway. He screams bloody murder about everything so I don't care what the outrage du jour is. I don't think the people who decide this election are going to make their minds up based on a line from an interview Clinton did in August.

 

If you apply learned context to what she said instead of taking her words literally with no context she's right in what she's saying. I don't want anyone getting bullied by Trump's dirty tricks into another Bush/Gore situation.

[JJ Husker]

Nobody wants or needs my two cents but I also think Biden would be better off without bulletin board statements from Hillary. What she said is correct and true and fair but having said it out loud can only hurt Joe and help Trump. The best thing for Biden’s chances would be if Hillary made no comments whatsoever and became disassociated from the dem party. If she has anymore nuggets of wisdom, she should share them privately with Biden.

[knapplc]

I want to meet this voter who, after not voting for Trump in 2016 and experiencing four years of Trump, is now going to vote for Trump because Hillary said don't concede. 

[BigRedBuster]

8 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

I have thought and continue to think her likeability is inexorably gendered -

Oh...BS.  I'm so tired of that.  She is way more disliked than other women in politics.  Why isn't Harris disliked like Hillary?  This is nothing more than a cop out from Democrats that nominated her and it turned into a disaster with Trump.

 

10 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

But I frankly just don't care what the MAGA meme crowd does with this.

 
Because of what @JJ Husker just wrote.  If you want to defeat Trump.  Stop having someone like Hillary making it even tougher on Biden to win.

 

[Notre Dame Joe]

2 hours ago, RedDenver said:

I'm not even sure what you're implying. We have the Electoral College instead of direct democracy?

 

Hillary is advocating for the same thing Trump is: ignore the results of the election.

 

EDIT:

 

If you read the RCP article on mail in  voting, it addressed the 2018 midterms and how MIV was responsible for flipping traditionally red districts in Orange County CA to blue.  You may remember that on election night they were called for the Rs, but as more and more ballots poured in via mail the Ds gained more and more ground until they won. 

 

That is what HRC is getting at.  There is simply no timely way to count all the votes which could be postmarked as late as election day.  And thus Biden shouldn't concede knowing that lots of late D votes will be coming to support him, one way or another. 

 

  

45 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

A simple thought exercise: Take what Clinton said, and say AOC or Bernie said it instead.

Would you guys still be saying they need to shut their traps for fear of it helping Trump, both sides ism, whatever?

 

I'm all out of f#&%s to give when people want to raise a stink every time she says something, particularly when she's right.

 

Yes it is a simple exercise.  AOC&Bernie are true believers.  If they said it means that they are preparing for some kind of actual political revolution and we should be worried.  HRC is a robotic politician.   It only means that she thinks it will make her stronger at the moment that she said it. 

[knapplc]

2 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

If you read the RCP article on mail in  voting, it addressed the 2018 midterms and how MIV was responsible for flipping traditionally red districts in Orange County CA to blue.  You may remember that on election night they were called for the Rs, but as more and more ballots poured in via mail the Ds gained more and more ground until they won. 

 

That is what HRC is getting at.  There is simply no timely way to count all the votes which could be postmarked as late as election day.  And thus Biden shouldn't concede knowing that lots of late D votes will be coming to support him, one way or another. 

 

Exactly. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

43 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Especially from the wings of either party, who tend to blow things like this out of proportion. 

 

Wings?

 

Every Democrat I know voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016. Almost every Democrat I know thinks she was treated unfairly, and most think misogyny played into it. But no Democrat I know wanted Hillary to run again, and everyone I've spoken to gets nervous when she becomes the face of the Democratic Party again. 

 

Not sure the correct proportion this needs to be blown, but there's already a lot of vigilance, activism, and publicity around fairness and fraud in the upcoming election, advanced by a variety of able people and organizations. Having Hillary Clinton speculating on a worst case scenario that hasn't happened yet pushes a couple buttons that are actually counter-productive. 

[Danny Bateman]

33 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Oh...BS.  I'm so tired of that.  She is way more disliked than other women in politics.  Why isn't Harris disliked like Hillary?  This is nothing more than a cop out from Democrats that nominated her and it turned into a disaster with Trump.

 

 
Because of what @JJ Husker just wrote.  If you want to defeat Trump.  Stop having someone like Hillary making it even tougher on Biden to win.

 

 

Sorry BRB I'm not backing down on this one. A lot of the reason the attacks on Clinton were so successful was because she was a powerful woman for several decades. There was a powerful element of sexism powering a chunk of the coalition that pushed Trump to victory.

 

But as far as election 2020 goes it doesn't matter that much because Knapp is correct. This isn't going to sway any significant number of votes.

[Danny Bateman]

22 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

 

EDIT:

 

If you read the RCP article on mail in  voting, it addressed the 2018 midterms and how MIV was responsible for flipping traditionally red districts in Orange County CA to blue.  You may remember that on election night they were called for the Rs, but as more and more ballots poured in via mail the Ds gained more and more ground until they won. 

 

That is what HRC is getting at.  There is simply no timely way to count all the votes which could be postmarked as late as election day.  And thus Biden shouldn't concede knowing that lots of late D votes will be coming to support him, one way or another. 

 

 ^ Correct

 

Yes it is a simple exercise.  AOC&Bernie are true believers.  If they said it means that they are preparing for some kind of actual political revolution and we should be worried.  HRC is a robotic politician.   It only means that she thinks it will make her stronger at the moment that she said it. 

Or she's just correct and it's OK to acknowledge that?

 

I'm able to disentangle how I feel about Clinton personally and call balls and strikes on the merits. Apparently this is difficult.

 

[RedDenver]

1 hour ago, Danny Bateman said:

A simple thought exercise: Take what Clinton said, and say AOC or Bernie said it instead.

Would you guys still be saying they need to shut their traps for fear of it helping Trump, both sides ism, whatever?

Yes, it would be equally dumb for Bernie or AOC to wildly speculate about events and then say that "Biden should not concede under any circumstances".

 

1 hour ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

I'm all out of f#&%s to give when people want to raise a stink every time she says something, particularly when she's right.

How is Hillary right? Do Dems now believe there are no circumstances under which Biden should concede? Ridiculous.