Moiraine Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 hour ago, DevoHusker said: So, if Gore and Hillary had won, would you still want these long term changes? Yes, if they lost the popular vote. 1 Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 hour ago, DevoHusker said: So, if Gore and Hillary had won, would you still want these long term changes? This really isn’t a fair question. If the system had elected the popular vote getter, there wouldn’t be much incentive for anyone to want to change things. But I sense your question was a little more loaded than that, basically it was more of a question of “if the dems had won or if your favored candidate had won, would you still want these changes?” Once again not a completely fair question. I guess where I’m at is I can see no logical reason to not have the president elected by a purely popular vote. I’ve long defended the electoral college....until I really thought about it. It still makes sense to me to divvy up representatives and senators as we currently do. That helps assure that our 3 or 4 largest cities aren’t completely setting the agenda for less populous rural areas. But there is not one good reason the same basic process should apply to electing the President. It just doesn’t make any sense to not have it decided by popular vote and IMO that shouldn’t be dependent on anyone’s party loyalty. The issue of switching to a national popular vote is on the Colorado ballot this cycle. I will be voting for it. 2 Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 2 hours ago, JJ Husker said: This really isn’t a fair question. If the system had elected the popular vote getter, there wouldn’t be much incentive for anyone to want to change things. But I sense your question was a little more loaded than that, basically it was more of a question of “if the dems had won or if your favored candidate had won, would you still want these changes?” Once again not a completely fair question. I guess where I’m at is I can see no logical reason to not have the president elected by a purely popular vote. I’ve long defended the electoral college....until I really thought about it. It still makes sense to me to divvy up representatives and senators as we currently do. That helps assure that our 3 or 4 largest cities aren’t completely setting the agenda for less populous rural areas. But there is not one good reason the same basic process should apply to electing the President. It just doesn’t make any sense to not have it decided by popular vote and IMO that shouldn’t be dependent on anyone’s party loyalty. The issue of switching to a national popular vote is on the Colorado ballot this cycle. I will be voting for it. Oh, it was definitely a "if your favored candidate had won" slanted question. Thanks for your insight on your position. I am struggling with the issue, and part of me says "but the Framers saw the representation issue" and the other part says "one person, one vote" makes more sense. I imagine the issue won't fade away, so we will probably be able to continue the discussion down the road. 1 Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 3 hours ago, schriznoeder said: Yes. I'm not 100% onboard yet, but most days I'm in favor of dismantling the Electoral College altogether. Without it, my vote in NE in a presidential election means just as important as a vote in CA or NY. In the current format, presidential candidates can pretty much ignore tried-and-true red or blue states like NE, CA, and NY (I realize NE is a bit of an exception due to our currently split electoral system) when they're campaigning, and focus their efforts on the swing states. Without the Electoral College, the candidates would have to pay attention to ALL voters. I realize there would potentially be some negative consequences, which is why I'm still on the fence a bit, but I think this is the best approach going forward. I'd also entertain the option of overturning the 17th Amendment and letting statehouses choose Senators instead. Thanks! I too am struggling with the issue. 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Good response from Team Biden. Link to comment
teachercd Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Popular vote would be awesome. But since that doesn't seem like it will happen, how about if one person wins a state by a certain % over the other person, they get like "bonus" EC votes. Link to comment
TGHusker Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 8 hours ago, JJ Husker said: My story is very similar. I wouldn’t say I ever been a huge Trump fan or that I helped elect him in 2016 (I voted for the Libertarian guy) but I also didn’t realize how destructive a Trump presidency could be. I thought never Trumpers were being over dramatic and felt he should be given a chance. But I’ve learned a lot in the past 4 years and for the first time in my life will be voting a straight Dem ticket. I still deep down identify as a fiscally conservative republican but the Republican Party has gravitated way outside my comfort zone. I just can’t condone any of it/them any more. I still am not fond of many far left progressive liberal policies but the R’s have simply moved to a really disgusting place that I refuse to support. I can relate. Pretty much where I am at Link to comment
schriznoeder Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 I think I found the perpetrator... Link to comment
Notre Dame Joe Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 I have absolutely no idea what's going on with the thread, or the alert function. On 10/12/2020 at 9:15 AM, TGHusker said: Good testimony. Like him, I've been on a journey as well. From a rabid talk show listener (I could be Norte Dame Joe if I kept it up ) to voting blue this time around. I've copied his testimony here as I thought it gives the needed background behind the tweet and is an important story to tell. https://forward.com/scribe/402478/i-was-a-trump-troll/ My family knew the Silvermans when I was but a lad. Pre-famous Sarah S was not puerile or rude in any way. But she was opinionated and nerdy. I cannot understand why anyone would change their policies based on her or anyone else. You want immigration controlled by rule of law. But someone was rude on twitter! So now you vote for immigration law ignored. 22 hours ago, Moiraine said: Yes, if they lost the popular vote. Bore and Hilary 'won' a plurality, not a majority of the popular. This is oddly ignored by the Abolish-Electoral College crowd. How can you forward an major constitutional change and not even address the situation that happens the majority of the time? 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 On 10/12/2020 at 11:15 AM, TGHusker said: Good testimony. Like him, I've been on a journey as well. From a rabid talk show listener (I could be Norte Dame Joe if I kept it up ) to voting blue this time around. I've copied his testimony here as I thought it gives the needed background behind the tweet and is an important story to tell. https://forward.com/scribe/402478/i-was-a-trump-troll/ I could have easily written that about myself although my epiphany moment came 5-6 years ago. Link to comment
RedDenver Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 40 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said: I cannot understand why anyone would change their policies based on her or anyone else. Do you understand the concept of being open-minded? Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Notre Dame Joe said: I cannot understand why anyone would change their policies based on her or anyone else. Welcome to why having a reasonable discussion with people like you is almost impossible. So, what you're saying is that you NEVER develop a new opinion of something based on new information that someone provides you. You're world view is...."I'm right and NOBODY is going to change my mind about that". Got it!!!! 2 Link to comment
DevoHusker Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: Welcome to why having a reasonable discussion with people like you is almost impossible. So, what you're saying is that you NEVER develop a new opinion of something based on new information that someone provides you. You're world view is...."I'm right and NOBODY is going to change my mind about that". Got it!!!! Um, this is not something that NDJ has cornered the market on. The bolded seems to have a pretty widespread following here in P&R. (remark not directed towards you) 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 minute ago, DevoHusker said: Um, this is not something that NDJ has cornered the market on. The bolded seems to have a pretty widespread following here in P&R. (remark not directed towards you) You'd be surprised how flexible most people here are. You wouldn't recognize me from what I post now compared to ten years ago, and a lot of that is due to talking things out with folks here. 1 2 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 minute ago, DevoHusker said: Um, this is not something that NDJ has cornered the market on. The bolded seems to have a pretty widespread following here in P&R. (remark not directed towards you) Sure there are others that have this view in life. But, I would say that the majority of people here in P&R will at least listen/read opinions different from there's and discuss them. I would also say that the vast majority of the people here wouldn't openly say, why would you allow anyone to change your mind on something. 1 Link to comment
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