The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[Landlord]

3 hours ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

 

It would be fun to see the about face Republicans do on presidential tax returns if he gets elected and doesn’t want to release them.

 

 

It would.

 

Would not be as fun to see the same about face from the Democrats all the sudden deciding it's not necessary and doesn't matter and has never mattered.

[Moiraine]

2 minutes ago, Landlord said:

It would.

 

Would not be as fun to see the same about face from the Democrats all the sudden deciding it's not necessary and doesn't matter and has never mattered.

 

 

I don't think that would happen.

[Ratt Mhule]

I support Bernie, but I agree he needs to release his tax returns. We know youre filthy rich Bernie so just do it. I dont think it will hurt his image too bad as he still wants the best for working class people. 

[funhusker]

9 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

 

It would.

 

Would not be as fun to see the same about face from the Democrats all the sudden deciding it's not necessary and doesn't matter and has never mattered.

I'm not a Bernie supporter,  but I kind of hope he's baiting the Trump voters.  Waiting for them to start screaming "hypocrite!" when the campaigns are in full swing and then saying "OK.  Here they are.  You are certainly right that I should share them."

 

I'm dreaming though....

[Danny Bateman]

1 hour ago, funhusker said:

I'm not a Bernie supporter,  but I kind of hope he's baiting the Trump voters.  Waiting for them to start screaming "hypocrite!" when the campaigns are in full swing and then saying "OK.  Here they are.  You are certainly right that I should share them." 

 

I'm dreaming though....

 

That would be interesting. Kind of a power move if he actually wins the nomination, because the media will make a big deal out of it and Trump releasing his own will become an even bigger deal. Of course he won't, but it would be a nice contrast.

 

Ultimately I agree with @Frott Scost though. Dems can't turn into giant hypocrites on this issue. We need to hold our own candidates to the same standard we've held Trump, or what's the point?

 

Having transparency about the president's finances is important. Jimmy Carter had to sell his damn peanut farm for crying out loud...

[Moiraine]

I see a lot of anti Kamala Harris stories about bad things she did as the AG, and every time I see them the thought occurs to me that it’s kind of sad that too much experience can be worse than none at all. If you have a job like that, you are going to piss people off, because you’re dealing with serious issues like people dying. 

 

Whereas if you have no experience you haven’t pissed people off yet and you can just vomit out all sorts of promises and invent who you are just to win an election.

 

I feel the same way when presidents are attacked by the other side because someone died somewhere. Every president, no matter how great they are, is going to have people die during their term, and often times directly due to a bad decision they made. That doesn’t mean they’re bad at the job.

 

 

Oh and btw, the anti Kamala Harris stories are on *gasp* the “liberal MSM”

[Ratt Mhule]

46 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

I see a lot of anti Kamala Harris stories about bad things she did as the AG, and every time I see them the thought occurs to me that it’s kind of sad that too much experience can be worse than none at all. If you have a job like that, you are going to piss people off, because you’re dealing with serious issues like people dying. 

 

Whereas if you have no experience you haven’t pissed people off yet and you can just vomit out all sorts of promises and invent who you are just to win an election.

 

I feel the same way when presidents are attacked by the other side because someone died somewhere. Every president, no matter how great they are, is going to have people die during their term, and often times directly due to a bad decision they made. That doesn’t mean they’re bad at the job.

 

 

Oh and btw, the anti Kamala Harris stories are on *gasp* the “liberal MSM”

 

Beto O'Rourke is their "pick" ever since he raised $6.2 million on day one.

[RedDenver]

59 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

I see a lot of anti Kamala Harris stories about bad things she did as the AG, and every time I see them the thought occurs to me that it’s kind of sad that too much experience can be worse than none at all. If you have a job like that, you are going to piss people off, because you’re dealing with serious issues like people dying. 

 

Whereas if you have no experience you haven’t pissed people off yet and you can just vomit out all sorts of promises and invent who you are just to win an election.

 

I feel the same way when presidents are attacked by the other side because someone died somewhere. Every president, no matter how great they are, is going to have people die during their term, and often times directly due to a bad decision they made. That doesn’t mean they’re bad at the job.

 

 

Oh and btw, the anti Kamala Harris stories are on *gasp* the “liberal MSM”

I agree with that experience shouldn't be worse than no experience, but we should judge candidates both on their words and their actions. What Kamala Harris says now is less relevant to me than her actions when she held power. But she's more credible than Howard Schultz or Beto on these issues. And the same applies to Bernie's experience over decades in office, but he's been consistent on his stances, which tends to help him instead of him having to defend his change in stance. The one issue Bernie did change on over the years was gun regulation, which unsurprisingly is the issue the Clinton camp went after him on.

[Nebfanatic]

 

I don't know how much traction he will gain come primary time, but Andrew Yang is really getting his name out there right now. Not a fan of Shapiro but he gives a great interview here so props to him.

[RedDenver]

Yang has a really interesting idea of Human-centered Capitalism: https://www.yang2020.com/policies/human-capitalism/

 

I'm not sure if that's practical and what the unintended consequences are though.

[schriznoeder]

 

[Nebfanatic]

14 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Yang has a really interesting idea of Human-centered Capitalism: https://www.yang2020.com/policies/human-capitalism/

 

I'm not sure if that's practical and what the unintended consequences are though.

Very interesting indeed. It becomes more interesting when you look at the role AI and automation will play going forward. An example he uses in the interview is a radiologist who has worked for years to get the proper education and training to gain a skill that commands a 6 figure income could easily see the market value for their skill cut in half or worse by AI that can scan millions of records and see colors on scans undetectable by the human eye. This person can no longer market their skill for a respectable price as it has been undercut by technology. This is the problem the human capitolism idea intends to solve by creating more value in serving the community.

[RedDenver]

I don't think Yang's UBI is going to work well for a few reasons:

1) It's touted as being a way to overcome job loss due to automation, but it's only $12,000/year, which isn't enough for someone to support themselves. How does that solve job loss?

2) It's used as a replacement for traditional welfare programs, which means that poor people don't actually benefit since it's just replacing one funding source with another one. It is more flexible than food stamps for example, but getting $12k from UBI or from food stamps isn't going to help anyone out of poverty or even improve their condition.

3) It's partially funded through a value-added tax (VAT), which is a way to tax goods. VAT is a regressive tax which will be borne more heavily by the poor and middle-class. So not only does UBI not help the poor, but funding it with a VAT hurts the poor. So what problem is UBI actually solving?

4) The US population is about 330 million with 76% being 18+ years old, which means that UBI will be an outlay of $3 trillion/year. Even using the highest numbers from Yang's figures of $600 billion in reduced welfare spending, $800 billion is VAT revenue, $600 billion in additional income revenue from new jobs, and $200 billion in reduced ancillary spending (homelessness, reduced crime, etc.) that's $2.2 trillion. For those that want balanced budgets, that's a yearly increase in the deficit of $800 billion.

[Ratt Mhule]

58 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

Very interesting indeed. It becomes more interesting when you look at the role AI and automation will play going forward. An example he uses in the interview is a radiologist who has worked for years to get the proper education and training to gain a skill that commands a 6 figure income could easily see the market value for their skill cut in half or worse by AI that can scan millions of records and see colors on scans undetectable by the human eye. This person can no longer market their skill for a respectable price as it has been undercut by technology. This is the problem the human capitolism idea intends to solve by creating more value in serving the community.

 

That particular example will never happen. May use more technology/AI to help radiologist make a diagnosis, but they will not cut out the human element of the reading. 

[Nebfanatic]

1 hour ago, Frott Scost said:

 

That particular example will never happen. May use more technology/AI to help radiologist make a diagnosis, but they will not cut out the human element of the reading. 

I disagree. AI will be able to spot all sorts of things on scans that humans would routinely miss. As the technology gets better there will be less need for the service of reading test results. Humans will need to be involved still, but I can see certain positions being diminished and devalued due to the fact that AI will do the job better. It can scan and compare to millions of records as opposed to maybe thousands available to the human brain to process. It can see shades of color undetectable by the human eye. The technology will only get more advanced as well.