The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[BigRedBuster]

6 minutes ago, Frott Scost said:

 

Yes it is. Trump ran as a populist and Hilary ran as the corporatist.  Trump promised he'd look out for the small guy and that's why he won.  He will always have his base, but there are many who voted for him that are just sick of the status quo and Trump promised change.  Yes, he lied, but that's beyond the point.

 

Dude....got news for ya.  Hillary didn't lose because she was a "corporatist".  She lost because she was quite possibly the most pathetic candidate the Democrats could have put up against Trump.  She is so disliked by so many people for so many reasons......Then, you throw in that Comey announces she's under investigation a month before the election. You know...that guy who was secretly trying to take down Trump.

 

Her "corporatist" leanings are WAY down the list as to why she lost.

[Ratt Mhule]

8 minutes ago, Fru said:

 

True. But Biden isn't nearly as disliked as Hillary.

 

I'd argue that they would NEED to move left, if that's where the energy for the party was. In 2016, Bernie was the energy of the party, and the DNC ignored it. If the energy of the party happens to be Biden in 2020, then why move left? 

 

FWIW, I'm not saying I want Biden or DNC status quo. I'm just looking at it as purely winning an election and unseating Trump. 

 

I mean there is a reason why AOC has 4.2 million followers on twitter and Bernie has 8 million, both have more than Biden. Bernie would beat Trump because hes a populist.  AOC and people like her are the future of the democratic party.  As the right moves more right, the left needs to move more left to combat them.

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, Frott Scost said:

 

I mean there is a reason why AOC has 4.2 million followers on twitter and Bernie has 8 million, both have more than Biden. Bernie would beat Trump because hes a populist.  AOC and people like her are the future of the democratic party.  As the right moves more right, the left needs to move more left to combat them.

 

 

Great....so when do we get to have a candidate I want to vote for?

[Ratt Mhule]

6 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

 

Great....so when do we get to have a candidate I want to vote for?

 

AOC will run for president one day and win.  Its because she fights for people like you every day.  She fights for your children to make sure they have a habitable planet.  She fought for my brother the other day when she ripped a drug CEO to shreds for the price of insulin.  If you don't like people like her, that's on you.  If you don't know much about her, then you should find out.

 

 

This was yesterday.  But it happens everyday with her.

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, Frott Scost said:

 

AOC will run for president one day and win.  Its because she fights for people like you every day.  She fights for your children to make sure they have a habitable planet.  She fought for my brother the other day when she ripped a drug CEO to shreds for the price of insulin.  If you don't like people like her, that's on you.  If you don't know much about her, then you should find out.

 

Yeah...OK.  I've read a lot about her.

 

Just because she "rips a drug CEO to shreds" doesn't mean she would be a good President.

 

[Fru]

3 minutes ago, Frott Scost said:

 

I mean there is a reason why AOC has 4.2 million followers on twitter and Bernie has 8 million, both have more than Biden. Bernie would beat Trump because hes a populist.  AOC and people like her are the future of the democratic party.  As the right moves more right, the left needs to move more left to combat them.

 

I'm not sure someone's twitter following is an accurate barometer for winning an election. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/08/upshot/democratic-electorate-twitter-real-life.html

 

"The outspoken group of Democratic-leaning voters on social media is outnumbered, roughly 2 to 1 by the more moderate, more diverse and less educated group of Democrats who typically don’t post political content online"

[Ratt Mhule]

1 minute ago, Fru said:

 

I'm not sure someone's twitter following is an accurate barometer for winning an election. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/08/upshot/democratic-electorate-twitter-real-life.html

 

"The outspoken group of Democratic-leaning voters on social media is outnumbered, roughly 2 to 1 by the more moderate, more diverse and less educated group of Democrats who typically don’t post political content online"

 

I get that.  But it does show popularity.  Like I said in an earlier post the younger generations are more progressive. Millenials, Gen Z and Gen X are more progressive than baby boomers and the silent generation.  All the polls show this.  At some point the politics will need to reflect this as these older folks die off.

4 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Yeah...OK.  I've read a lot about her.

 

Probably about how she wants to ban airplanes and cows, right?  Both of which are untrue.

[TGHusker]

Regarding this whole  right swing, left swing pendulum, if we follow that philosophy that we have to counter an alt-right with an alt-leftist it won't be long that we end up with no freedoms because both extremes take us to tyranny.  Check out history.    Most Americans are center right to center left - (and to Scott's point that center might be edging a bit left wt the younger voting group) once a party rediscovers this center and start governing ethically   from the center that that party may hold the WH and Congress for some time.

The Dems lost to Trump because they had a rigged system (against Bernie) to nominate the most pathetic candidate in my life time (and I'm old ) - the Dems shot themselves in the foot but in so doing they shot the rest of us in the head.  Practically any other Dem would have beaten Trump.  And on the other side, if the Repubs had not allowed non-GOP voters to vote in the open  primaries, someone else would have been the nominee and that person also would have beat Hillary. 

[Ratt Mhule]

5 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Regarding this whole  right swing, left swing pendulum, if we follow that philosophy that we have to counter an alt-right with an alt-leftist it won't be long that we end up with no freedoms because both extremes take us to tyranny.  Check out history.    Most Americans are center right to center left - (and to Scott's point that center might be edging a bit left wt the younger voting group) once a party rediscovers this center and start governing ethically   from the center that that party may hold the WH and Congress for some time.

The Dems lost to Trump because they had a rigged system (against Bernie) to nominate the most pathetic candidate in my life time (and I'm old ) - the Dems shot themselves in the foot but in so doing they shot the rest of us in the head.  Practically any other Dem would have beaten Trump.  And on the other side, if the Repubs had not allowed non-GOP voters to vote in the open  primaries, someone else would have been the nominee and that person also would have beat Hillary. 

 

I mean Im of the opinion that throwing someone who had a miscarriage in jail for 30 years and throwing 30 million people off health insurance is a little different than a livable wage, decriminalization of marijuana, saving the planet, universal healthcare, and affordable college but I guess thats just me. 

[TGHusker]

2 minutes ago, Frott Scost said:

 

I mean Im of the opinion that throwing someone who had a miscarriage in jail for 30 years and throwing 30 million people off health insurance is a little different than a livable wage, decriminalization of marijuana, saving the planet, universal healthcare, and affordable college but I guess thats just me. 

what - can't follow your logic there

[Ratt Mhule]

6 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

what - can't follow your logic there

 

You said countering the alt right with the alt left is not a good idea. The “ alt”right polices vs the “alt” left polices are apples to oranges as I just pointed out. 

[RedDenver]

5 hours ago, TGHusker said:

So Trump is stuck at 41% basically - and even lower against a more moderate Biden.   41% seems to be Trump's ceiling for now.  So if the Dems were smart, they'd back away from the cliff of going full bore left and move to center left.  Biden could pick a VP candidate like Harris or Warren or even Buttigieg to round out the ticket.  Personally, I wish there was another moderate person besides Biden - he can be a buffoon at times but even that is better than the current butt head.

You're assuming that the polls right now are going to continue to the election. I predict that Biden will fade as the primaries approach. He's another third-way, corporate lackey in a time of populism. He didn't win the nomination back when his brand of Dem politics was popular. He'll continue to say idiotic stuff like the Republicans will suddenly come around to compromising with him. It's like he's completely unaware of what happened while he was Vice President:

The problem with Joe Biden’s Republican “epiphany” theory of bipartisanship

Quote

“I just think there is a way, and the thing that will fundamentally change things is with Donald Trump out of the White House. Not a joke. You will see an epiphany occur among many of my Republican friends,” Biden said.

 

[Moiraine]

1 hour ago, Frott Scost said:

 

You said countering the alt right with the alt left is not a good idea. The “ alt”right polices vs the “alt” left polices are apples to oranges as I just pointed out. 

 

 

I think you mean festering piles of dogs#!t to lemons.

[Guy Chamberlin]

2 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Dude....got news for ya.  Hillary didn't lose because she was a "corporatist".  She lost because she was quite possibly the most pathetic candidate the Democrats could have put up against Trump.  She is so disliked by so many people for so many reasons......Then, you throw in that Comey announces she's under investigation a month before the election. You know...that guy who was secretly trying to take down Trump.

 

Her "corporatist" leanings are WAY down the list as to why she lost.

 

The lesson remains that Trump won and Bernie Sanders came far closer than anyone imagined because they both ran as populists in a race where the prognosticators were wrong about virtually everything. Americans wanted change. Hillary Clinton was the exact opposite of that, but she had the more powerful machine, and between the fear of Trump and a genuine desire to elect the first female President, she mustered up a coalition of people willing to overlook a lot.

 

What some would call "corporatist leanings" others might call entrenched entitlement. They're not that different. Hillary Clinton tried to pose as a midwestern every woman and champion of the common folk, but she came up as a corporate lawyer and ran with the Davos crowd as much as possible. She was always about political calculation, and seemed to think she deserved the Presidency. People saw through that.  So however you found her unlikable, "corporatist" isn't the wrong word here. 

[Danny Bateman]

3 hours ago, RedDenver said:

You're assuming that the polls right now are going to continue to the election. I predict that Biden will fade as the primaries approach. He's another third-way, corporate lackey in a time of populism. He didn't win the nomination back when his brand of Dem politics was popular. He'll continue to say idiotic stuff like the Republicans will suddenly come around to compromising with him. It's like he's completely unaware of what happened while he was Vice President: 

The problem with Joe Biden’s Republican “epiphany” theory of bipartisanship

 

 

This presumes Biden actually believes this about Republicans and isn't just saying it because he's campaigning as a unifying candidate who is willing to try to find common ground.

 

Say what you will but there's a good chunk of people who like to hear stuff like that.