The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[knapplc]

LOOK AT ALL THE LESSONS THE DEMOCRATS LEARNED AFTER 2016! WHAT A GREAT PARTY TO TAKE US INTO THE FUTURE WITH THEIR BRILLIANT VISIONARY LEADERSHIP.

 

Sheesh. 

[Ratt Mhule]

3 hours ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

In what ways are they trying to screw him?

 

They adopted a lot of his recommendations about the primary and debates to make them more democratic.

 

From where I sit Bernie's levied a ton of criticisms at Biden, too. But progressives dismiss it as merely talking about Biden's record. Why are Bernie's criticisms of Joe and the Democratic Party in general OK but no critique of Bernie is OK?

 

In general it seems like Bernie's supporters are hypersensitive to criticism.

 

Through media. Through secret meetings. I posted an article about a month ago about some secret meeting with Pelosi, Schumer, Buttigieg and some others about Bernie and not wanting him to win the nomination. Just look at the smear jobs since it became known he was a millionaire. 

 

Honestly, the primaries should be fair game. I think its a little hypocritical of the DNC to call for unity and then screw Bernie behind his back. Then when he fights back, call him out for not being a team player. 

 

2016, Clinton got all super delegates to pledge before a vote was even cast. This year, they are trying to make it so Bernie does not get 50% of the vote in order for super delegates to come in play. 

 

Yes, I am a progressive, so I like Bernie for the most part. I think Warren is a better choice, however. Havent decided who im voting for yet. Warren will probably be gone by time Nebraska votes. 

 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

6 hours ago, TGHusker said:

To Bernie supporters:  I'd like to know your thoughts on this:  if Bernie is denied the nomination will he become a spoiler?

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/445859-democrats-worry-bernie-sanders-could-play-spoiler

 

 

Yeah, this narrative has been three years in the making, and it appears to be coordinated. The DNC doesn't want Bernie, Clinton supporters have aimed their full wrath at him, Conservatives looking to rehabilitate themselves -- like David Frum -- get points and clicks for anti-Bernie, pro-Dem pieces, and even CNN and MSNBC have used some wildly biased techniques to marginalize Sanders in their coverage. As you may have heard, Russia has never stopped interfering in our electoral process, and it was reported that a recent wave of Russian bots were promoting almost the exact same narrative advanced in The Hill article, just angrier and more vengeful -- blaming Sanders for Trump in an attempt to rile Democrats.  

 

You'll see a lot is made over polls suggesting that 12% of Bernie Sanders primary voters ended up voting for Trump in the General election. This turns out to be a common trend in every election, as somewhere between 10% and 15% of primary voters switch parties rather than vote for their primary rival. The notable exception was 2008, when it's believed as many as 25% of Hillary Clinton primary voters went for McCain/Palin rather than Barack Obama.

 

Bernie Sanders could not have been more clear or more vocal in his support of Hillary Clinton in the General Election, often paying his own way to Clinton campaign events. 

 

I suppose he can take some comfort that the supposedly radical ideas he's promoted all his life have slipped into mainstream political discussion, but I wouldn't trust Joe Biden to deliver a goddamn thing. 

[Moiraine]

5 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

I suppose he can take some comfort that the supposedly radical ideas he's promoted all his life have slipped into mainstream political discussion, but I wouldn't trust Joe Biden to deliver a goddamn thing. 

 

 

I don't even 100% trust Biden to undo all the s#!t Trump has done. And we need more than just that.

[RedDenver]

7 hours ago, TGHusker said:

To Bernie supporters:  I'd like to know your thoughts on this:  if Bernie is denied the nomination will he become a spoiler?

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/445859-democrats-worry-bernie-sanders-could-play-spoiler

 

It's just continued smears of Bernie by the Dem establishment. Bernie has said repeatedly that he'd support whoever the Dem nominee is because Trump is so terrible.

[Danny Bateman]

The question is how progressivism even gains traction within the party itself. 

 

Progressive candidates were responsible for almost none of the red-to-blue districts that flipped control of the House to Democratic control. Bernie and Warren’s support combined in most polls right now does not surpass Biden’s. Oddly enough a large chunk of Bernie supporters prefer BIden as their second choice and vice-versa.

 

It seems progressives are doing things the right way, though, by focusing on local and state politics. That is where you really gain a foothold and develop a bench. It seems like at the federal level generational change is required for broader support. Most people in my generation are decidedly more open to Bernie’s type of policies rather than Biden’s. Not much of a market for Third Wayism right now. 

 

Still, at some point, it’s not a coordinated campaign by the political establishment. It’s that progressivism doesn’t appeal to a broad enough slice of America right now.

 

 

[Moiraine]

50 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

Oddly enough a large chunk of Bernie supporters prefer BIden as their second choice and vice-versa.

 

 

Old White dudes?

[Danny Bateman]

18 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Old White dudes?

 

Can’t possibly imagine...

[Ratt Mhule]

11 hours ago, Danny Bateman said:

It’s that progressivism doesn’t appeal to a broad enough slice of America right now.

 

I think youre probably right about this.  These ideas just started to become somewhat mainstream during the 2016 election.  I didn't even realize I was a progressive until a few months ago when I started following politics more.  I would always call myself an independent when I wasn't following things, just to get out of political discussions.  Then when I heard these ideas, I agreed with most of them.  Key word there is most.

 

I feel like most folks don't really follow politics as much as some of the people just on this board.  Most just hear a name and say "Oh, I know he was a vice president at some point, therefore, he must know what hes doing."  I think that is what is going on with Joe Biden right now, because if people actually listened to the guy, knew his voting record  and saw the things he is doing to raise money, most people would say, WTF?

 

Also, I don't think its any secret that younger folks are more progressive than older folks.  All the polls show this and its actually becoming more of an increase by the generation.  The problem is, younger folks don't vote as often as older folks. 

[RedDenver]

12 hours ago, Danny Bateman said:

It’s that progressivism doesn’t appeal to a broad enough slice of America right now.

It's interesting because progressive policies are supported by the majority of Americans, but if you ask Americans if they're progressive they say no.

[Fru]

Some good back and forth here in the last day or so.

 

 

Few thoughts:

 

• I like Bernie, but the DNC is a private organization. They don't owe anything to Bernie, who is technically not a Dem. It doesn't shock me that an organization doesn't cater to a candidate that isn't technically a member. Would he play spoiler? I doubt it. Bernie did well in 2016 because of a lack of competition. FWIW, I've seen a lot of vitriol towards Bernie this time around, from the same folks that were Bernie supporters in 2016. 
• Biden being the next in line and DNC darling isn't shocking. He's polled the best against Trump even before he announced. Why would the DNC select someone who polls poorly against Trump?
• I see some former GOP folks on here clamoring for the left to come up with "new ideas." Well. They have come up with lots of ideas. And lots of new candidates. And lots of new policies. But it seems to me that lots of old guard GOP folks on here still see voting for a candidate with a (D) next to their name as an unspeakable sin. You want fresh new ideas, but you couldn't possibly vote for them unless they're a moderate who represents the old guard.  
• I think progressivism does appeal to most Americans. I'm not sure it's packaged and advertised in a way that most Americans can digest and understand. I think the left needs to message things with a "Unifying" motif. Not a "check your privilege" motif.
• As for the Dems being the ones to lead us into the future... I think most American voters are too fickle for that to ever work. I will never understand the folks who voted for Obama and Trump. We as voters are largely not informed, educated or engaged, but hold hard opinions anyway. We vote off of feelings, Facebook memes and talking heads. Liz Warren should be running away with this right now. She's the only candidate with the pedigree, platform and fleshed out policy proposals. But, most Americans see her as a shrill grandma telling you to eat your vegetables. Dems can lead voters to water, but can't make them drink it. 

[Ratt Mhule]

8 minutes ago, Fru said:

Some good back and forth here in the last day or so.

 

 

Few thoughts:

 

• I like Bernie, but the DNC is a private organization. They don't owe anything to Bernie, who is technically not a Dem. It doesn't shock me that an organization doesn't cater to a candidate that isn't technically a member. Would he play spoiler? I doubt it. Bernie did well in 2016 because of a lack of competition. FWIW, I've seen a lot of vitriol towards Bernie this time around, from the same folks that were Bernie supporters in 2016. 
• Biden being the next in line and DNC darling isn't shocking. He's polled the best against Trump even before he announced. Why would the DNC select someone who polls poorly against Trump?
• I see some former GOP folks on here clamoring for the left to come up with "new ideas." Well. They have come up with lots of ideas. And lots of new candidates. And lots of new policies. But it seems to me that lots of old guard GOP folks on here still see voting for a candidate with a (D) next to their name as an unspeakable sin. You want fresh new ideas, but you couldn't possibly vote for them unless they're a moderate who represents the old guard.  
• I think progressivism does appeal to most Americans. I'm not sure it's packaged and advertised in a way that most Americans can digest and understand. I think the left needs to message things with a "Unifying" motif. Not a "check your privilege" motif.
• As far as the Dems being the ones to lead us into the future... I think most American voters are too fickle for that to ever work. I will never understand the folks who voted for Obama and Trump. We as voters are largely not informed, educated or engaged, but hold hard opinions anyway. We vote off of feelings, Facebook memes and talking heads. Liz Warren should be running away with this right now. She's the only candidate with the pedigree, platform and fleshed out policy proposals. But, most Americans see her as a shrill grandma telling you to eat your vegetables. Dems can lead voters to water, but can't make them drink it. 

 

To the first bolded part, I 100% agree.  I think Bernie does a terrible job at promoting his medicare for all policy.  I thought his fox news town hall discussion for medicare for all was his best so far.  He redirected the conversation from right wing lies back to no premiums, no deductibles, no co-pays.  But it still wasn't enough in my view.  I was sitting there watching thinking to myself, for the love of god say this or say that Bernie, but he never said them.  He needs to do a better job informing the lay person who just feels like they will lose their insurance all together and their taxes will be raised at the same time.

 

To the second bolded part, I also 100% agree.

[TGHusker]

14 minutes ago, Fru said:

I see some former GOP folks on here clamoring for the left to come up with "new ideas." Well. They have come up with lots of ideas. And lots of new candidates. And lots of new policies. But it seems to me that lots of old guard GOP folks on here still see voting for a candidate with a (D) next to their name as an unspeakable sin. You want fresh new ideas, but you couldn't possibly vote for them unless they're a moderate who represents the old guard. 

To use a well know phrase "Are You Talking to Me!".   Actually this last election in Oklahoma - I voted for several Dems. Since I won't be voting for Trump, the Dem candidate will be very important to me - along with any libertarian candidate that might come forward.   I'm no fan of old guard Biden.   I could see myself voting for Warren - yes she is removed from my normal political bent but I think she has the political maturity to make changes wisely (not to be compared to Trump's immaturity in all areas).  There are a few others I'd consider - Mayor Pete is interesting but I want to hear more specifics.  Sen Harris is interesting.   The former Colo gov may be an option also - I like people with executive experience. 

 

22 minutes ago, Fru said:

Liz Warren should be running away with this right now. She's the only candidate with the pedigree, platform and fleshed out policy proposals. But, most Americans see her as a shrill grandma telling you to eat your vegetables. Dems can lead voters to water, but can't make them drink it. 

agree wt this 100%

[Danny Bateman]

1 hour ago, Frott Scost said:

 

I think youre probably right about this.  These ideas just started to become somewhat mainstream during the 2016 election.  I didn't even realize I was a progressive until a few months ago when I started following politics more.  I would always call myself an independent when I wasn't following things, just to get out of political discussions.  Then when I heard these ideas, I agreed with most of them.  Key word there is most.

  

I feel like most folks don't really follow politics as much as some of the people just on this board.  Most just hear a name and say "Oh, I know he was a vice president at some point, therefore, he must know what hes doing."  I think that is what is going on with Joe Biden right now, because if people actually listened to the guy, knew his voting record  and saw the things he is doing to raise money, most people would say, WTF?

  

Also, I don't think its any secret that younger folks are more progressive than older folks.  All the polls show this and its actually becoming more of an increase by the generation.  The problem is, younger folks don't vote as often as older folks. 

 

Absolutely. Only folks who pay a very high degree of attention to politics are engaged right now, which is a small sliver of the country, so that speaks to the "polls are mainly name recognition" argument.  

 

The generational thing means we should see a fairly strong leftward shift of U.S. politics moving forward. I just read yesterday that in the midterms Gen X/Millennials/Gen Z combined accounted for more votes than Boomers. Boomers are likely to be the last conservative-leaning generation for a while.

 

39 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

It's interesting because progressive policies are supported by the majority of Americans, but if you ask Americans if they're progressive they say no.

 

Absolutely. I do think a lot of it is cultural and how people perceive their identities. Progressive policies do have fairly good public support across different demographics, but as soon as you start putting labels on things scares a lot of people away. The question is how to desitgmatize the label for people who have a negative connotation of it.

[Ratt Mhule]

14 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

Absolutely. Only folks who pay a very high degree of attention to politics are engaged right now, which is a small sliver of the country, so that speaks to the "polls are mainly name recognition" argument.  

 

The generational thing means we should see a fairly strong leftward shift of U.S. politics moving forward. I just read yesterday that in the midterms Gen X/Millennials/Gen Z combined accounted for more votes than Boomers. Boomers are likely to be the last conservative-leaning generation for a while.

 

 

Absolutely. I do think a lot of it is cultural and how people perceive their identities. Progressive policies do have fairly good public support across different demographics, but as soon as you start putting labels on things scares a lot of people away. The question is how to desitgmatize the label for people who have a negative connotation of it.

 

I believe the GOP knows this and why they are becoming corrupt as s#!t to try and hold power.